Can I liveaboard off my rental property?

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by avi_normal

I've got this idea on my mind and it would be great to get some input from anyone with experience.

Is this realistic or will it end up becoming a pipe dream at this rate? All input welcome.

Here at CF you'll find many sharing 'the dream'. But we're all strangers and only you know your specific needs and expectations. A significant aspect of affordability, as others have alluded to is what you're prepared to put up with in respect to the boat itself (facilities, size, glamour level etc) and you're own personal level of frugality.

In my experience most people who go off on long sailing adventures soon revert to their land based habits. So for example, if they've mostly had their 3 meals a day at cafes then they soon start eating out again for their meals. Where as if their meals are based around their own cooking of fresh food from the farmer's market, then that's what they try to do in their new lifestyle. Same with entertainment, if you like to spend evenings with a book from the library that's much cheaper than a night at some pub.

So avi normal what is your normal? Do you have expensive hobbies? Do you like to socialise? You said you enjoy diving, do you mean technical diving with all the fancy gear and expensive underwater cameras? If so serious coin. But perhaps you just free dive with face mask/snorkel and flippers; way cheaper.

In respect to the boat it really is all about size. But also level of expectation. Someone above alluded to (presumably a set of) sails as costing $20K for a 36 footer. Well that's only the case if you have them made. Actually you can pick up perfectly good cruising sails for very little money if you look around. First many racing boats order new sets each season; second hand sails from wrecks and derelict boats you'll find in every yard. Even lofts often have a few sails that have been ordered and that for some reason the money never arrived. I just bought a complete wardrobe of sails from a boat that sunk locally for $300, including main sail cover. All in amazingly great condition. Like many boats it was one that no one ever sailed, so the sails just don't wear out.

And another aspect that I'd add (issue wise) is the boat gadgets. If you have to have power winches, in mast furler, water maker, cold and hot pressure water, serious navigation instruments, plus AIS and integrated radar/chart plotter/sonar, anchor windlass, bow and stern thrusters then maintenance costs will be high. Even introducing something electric that isn't 12 volt means complexity because then you're into 240v (or whatever system you have their) so you can run your washer/dryer, microwave and coffee maker.

So ask yourself avi normal: would I just row the dinghy or is a fat and lazy outboard what I need? An outboard is yet another motor that will break down, has running costs and requires replacement each time it's stolen. Same sentiment with the tender. Do you have to buy a brand new, super fancy rib from the shop? Just a couple of days ago I read a post somewhat the same as yours normal.avi where the dreamer posted a boat for sale and a 'should I buy this boat?' title. The post included a budget of things to buy along with the boat a question. The budget included $2K for a new dinghy yet one can buy one of the zillions of second hand dinghies for under $100 (including oars)? In actuality the boat in question included a dinghy but it was presumably not up to the poster's standard.

And you need to know your level of standard normal.avi as it will differ from everyone else. To afford the adventure you just need to match your finances with your level of standard. Sounds as if finances are pretty much set, so that only leaves adjusting your level of standard.

[gmakhs]

If the boat is 30 to 34 feet you don't want to live the rockstar life style do most of the work if not all on your own 15.000 per year are enough.
I have a 26 feet boat circumnavigating the last 3 year's total.cost food - travel and boat expenses 19.000 and that's in 3 years . Now the boat needs maintenance so I am.gonna put another 2000 this year and that's because I need new outboard and maybe dingy .
In my opinion you have nothing to risk you have the income from the rent you have a job you can go back to so why not spent 20 to 30k on a nice sailboat and possibly sail around the world ???
I do have a youtube channel as well but it's not my primary income , for income (since I don't own real estate ) I work in French usually colonies and the salary is higher than in my country anyway (450 euro per month in Greece - 1800 euro per month in French colonies ).
That being said take your journey don't spent much but keep the boat in good shape and if you have to sacrifice , sacrifice on gadgets (AIS , WIND INSTRUMENTS ETC )

I use to feel the same as you before I leave and believe me full time cruising if you like it it's life changing .

Soon I will upgrade on 30 to 34 feet as well since now I am not alone anymore .

[a64pilot]

It’s not hard at all to put $10K into a dinghy.
Defenders price
https://www.defender.com/product3.js...365&id=4463132
20 HP Yamaha, good price actually
https://www.rudymarine.com/yamaha-20-hp-outboard-motor/

Then add chaps to protect it, an anchor and rode, maybe lights for night use and with shipping your all over $10K.

Point is, it’s not hard at all to spend way more money than you think

[GRIT]

My wife and I cruised from 2003-2009, on a Corbin 39, through the USA, the Caribbean, and Europe for about that much. $800 cad monthly cruising budget, $150 insurance, $200 repair and maintenance. We cruised for even less, on the boat before that.

To do this, you must fix everything yourself, anchor out 99% of the time, and be religious about preventative maintenance, with an eye for saving money. Not replacing perfectly good equipment, but preventing breakages.

We didn't eat out, rarely had alcohol aboard, but had a wonderful time. We can't wait to get back out there, though now with a bigger boat, and correspondingly bigger maintenance budget.

GO NOW, before you get old. If you're short on funds, you'll find a way to make it up. We only regret stopping to build the new boat, you'll not regret starting. Just make it happen.

Cheers, and good luck.
Paul and Christine.

[nwdiver]

Get a heatable space nearby, buy a 32-35 foot fixer-upper work hard spend 3-4 years refitting the boat, you will learn all its systems that way and know they are in good shape, this will reduce the cost of the first number of years of cruising for you, take it to the sea an be free......

If that doesn't work sell the boat and go home......

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by avi_normal

I'm not sure what you mean, but I don't plan on selling them just yet as the market here is still rising.

Just that they dont appear to be producing a lot of cash flow. However, I dont know their valuation or your cash-on-cash ROI, but maybe the capital will earn more for you in a different investment. Or maybe not, depending on the actual numbers.

[Fore and Aft]

You are getting plenty of good advice here, but I am not sure getting a project boat is a good thing since you are so new to sailing. It would be like me restoring a classic car and I know nothing about cars except for how to drive one.

I think you should just go for it. Whats the worst that happens, you sell the yacht and chalk it all up to experience? What do they say "Better to have lived one day as a lion than a lifetime as a lamb" 14 years in a job you are sick of sounds like its time to stop being a lamb to me

Cheers

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by avi_normal

I'm not sure what you mean, but I don't plan on selling them just yet as the market here is still rising.

Good thinking. I've used the same strategy with stocks. Wait out the rising market, then sell on/after the (much more rapid) downside.

[avi_normal]

This is all excellent information from all across the board. Perhaps I was also getting a little ahead of myself, but I am still going to be working towards this dream. I'm glad most of you are encouraging about giving up my current lifestyle for a much more lively one.
I do live my current life well above my means, likely driven by my surroundings living in a big city. I'm sure I can easily give up this lifestyle and yet I do see myself returning back to it (perhaps ping ponging back and fourth because I like high tech gear as well as living as a Luddite ).
For the time being, I will keep my eye on the ball, minimize my current lifestyle and get as much sailing experience as I can before I come back here and bug you all with more noobish questions.... and then sail away.
thanks everyone!

[a64pilot]

It’s not so easy at all to give up that lifestyle, it takes dedication. It’s addictive and of course Society pushes it as a norm. Your not Normal if you don’t have an IPhone X and an Apple Watch etc.

However once you get used to it, you’ll find you don’t miss that stuff, and the money you have is nice as opposed to debt. I sleep better.

I had never heard of this FIRE movement, but it’s pretty much what I did, at the time of my life when my earnings were highest, so that in less than 10 yrs I was able to accumulate enough, if predictions hold even close, I’m set for life, no matter how long I live.
But I can’t go back to living above my means, ever.
I quit smoking 35 yrs ago, I figure I can do this too

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Good thinking. I've used the same strategy with stocks. Wait out the rising market, then sell on/after the (much more rapid) downside.

Ha ha...its a very common strategy! [emoji849]

[sailorchic34]

As someone who lived for years on about $600 a month ( a few months for 1/2 that ugh.), it can be done. That's if you already own the boat and brought it up to good condition first.

You can't do it if you don't have a paid off boat first though. Buy the wrong boat and it's a money pit.

BTW, $600 or even $1000 a month means you do ALL the work on the boat your self. From engine rebuilding/repair, to sewing sails, to rewiring and varnishing. Been there, done that..

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

As someone who lived for years on about $600 a month ( a few months for 1/2 that ugh.), it can be done. That's if you already own the boat and brought it up to good condition first.

You can't do it if you don't have a paid off boat first though. Buy the wrong boat and it's a money pit.

BTW, $600 or even $1000 a month means you do ALL the work on the boat your self. From engine rebuilding/repair, to sewing sails, to rewiring and varnishing. Been there, done that..

Most lifestyle expenses are habit and habits are hard to break. The OP has already posted he is living beyond his means. So...yes it CAN be done, but it will be a tough transition.

[valhalla360]

Possible...yes. People do it.

Be careful though looking at blogs and youtube...it's like watching the winners of the lottery...you only see the winners.

You have no margin for error with the plan you laid out. One bad break (condos or boat) and you could be in a world of hurt financially. Odds are you will make some expensive mistakes on your first boat, so going slow and careful is a good idea to limit risk.

[GordMay]

I suppose, one could live on anything between <$4,000 and >$5,000,000 per year. People do.

Philippines: The survey results showed that the average annual family income of Filipino families was approximately 267 thousand pesos. In comparison, the average annual family expenditure for the same year was 215 thousand pesos (<$4,200US*).
In 2015, about 41.9 percent of the total annual family expenditures was spent on food. For families in the bottom 30 percent income group, the percentage was much higher at 59.7percent, while for families in the upper 70 percent income group, it was 38.8 percent.
*1PHP = 0.0195185 USD → 215,000 PHP = 4,196.05 USD
➥ https://psa.gov.ph/content/average-f...-family-income