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Old 17-01-2020, 13:15   #1
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CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

I'm replacing my propane stove/oven with a non-pressurized alcohol stove but just found out that the idiots in California voted for something called Proposition 65 which has resulted in stores pulling denatured alcohol off of the shelves.

So, how are you guys in California buying your denatured alcohol now?
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Old 17-01-2020, 13:23   #2
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

I could be wrong, but as I understand, it's no longer allowed to be sold as a solvent (so off the shelf at the hardware store), but a cut-out in the law allows it to still be sold as a camping fuel, so places like REI and sporting goods stores should still have it, at a more boutique price.
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Old 17-01-2020, 13:57   #3
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

You can still buy alcohol stove fuel in California at many places including Ace Hardware, Walmart, Target or buy online from Amazon, etc.
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Old 17-01-2020, 14:35   #4
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magentawave View Post
I'm replacing my propane stove/oven with a non-pressurized alcohol stove but just found out that the idiots in California voted for something called Proposition 65 which has resulted in stores pulling denatured alcohol off of the shelves.

So, how are you guys in California buying your denatured alcohol now?
Proposition 65 passed in 1986.
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Old 17-01-2020, 15:47   #5
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
I could be wrong, but as I understand, it's no longer allowed to be sold as a solvent (so off the shelf at the hardware store), but a cut-out in the law allows it to still be sold as a camping fuel, so places like REI and sporting goods stores should still have it, at a more boutique price.
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Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
You can still buy alcohol stove fuel in California at many places including Ace Hardware, Walmart, Target or buy online from Amazon, etc.
Thanks, but I called REI, West, Big Five, Ace, Lowes, and Home Depot and they all recently stopped carrying it. It doesn't appear on the Target website and Walmart no longer carries it in the stores. Walmart shows a lot of outside vendors that carry it from their website but not sure if they will ship it to California. (One of the merchants websites specifically says it can't be sold in California.) I see it available on Amazon so I posted a question there to see if it can still be shipped here.


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Proposition 65 passed in 1986.
Yes, that's interesting that it passed that long ago. I can only assume that whatever they passed in 65 wasn't being enforced until now.
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Old 17-01-2020, 16:11   #6
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Well if it gets down to no other options I have a friend in the chemical business that can ship you a 55 gal drum of denatured alcohol. Seriously.

Maybe get together a few other boaters and do a group buy or bottle it off and sell it on eBay. NOTE: depending on what grade of denatured alcohol you still might need a BATF permit to sell it.
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Old 17-01-2020, 16:45   #7
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

As of a couple months ago West marine was still carrying it and had not been informed they were banned from selling it.

Edit, ok just checked and they are still selling it.
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Old 17-01-2020, 17:13   #8
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Amazon lists it. $23/gal or about $77 for 5 gal. I didn’t see any shipping restrictions for CA but maybe at check out. Seems kind of pricey plus there is probably a a HAZMAT fee.
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Old 17-01-2020, 17:16   #9
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Grainger has it in 1 and 5 gallons, ready for pickup in all branches
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Old 17-01-2020, 17:48   #10
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

There's no new rules (yet) about alcohol, denatured or otherwise, in California and it is still available.

But, Sunnyside chemicals, a large supplier to many of the hardware and camping stores decided they would no longer sell denatured alcohol in California. They say this choice was related to "California VOC regulations" but did not (at least to me) specify what regulation in particular. Probably has to do with labeling, as a fuel denatured alcohol is exempt from VOC regulations, as a solvent it is not. It seems that the main supplier to hardware stores exiting the market (and saying it was because of regulations) led to the (apparent) rumor that the stuff is "banned".
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Old 17-01-2020, 18:28   #11
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
There's no new rules (yet) about alcohol, denatured or otherwise, in California and it is still available.

But, Sunnyside chemicals, a large supplier to many of the hardware and camping stores decided they would no longer sell denatured alcohol in California. They say this choice was related to "California VOC regulations" but did not (at least to me) specify what regulation in particular. Probably has to do with labeling, as a fuel denatured alcohol is exempt from VOC regulations, as a solvent it is not. It seems that the main supplier to hardware stores exiting the market (and saying it was because of regulations) led to the (apparent) rumor that the stuff is "banned".
Thank you for that! We had an entire thread here already where a number of folks insisted that it was banned despite no evidence that it was and ample evidence it wasn't. Amazing what a political viewpoint can do to reason, so good to see the definitive explanation. Just too bad for some that it doesn't involve moronic Californians passing idiotic environmental laws as they were so quick to assume and then insist.
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Old 17-01-2020, 18:42   #12
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
There's no new rules (yet) about alcohol, denatured or otherwise, in California and it is still available.

But, Sunnyside chemicals, a large supplier to many of the hardware and camping stores decided they would no longer sell denatured alcohol in California. They say this choice was related to "California VOC regulations" but did not (at least to me) specify what regulation in particular. Probably has to do with labeling, as a fuel denatured alcohol is exempt from VOC regulations, as a solvent it is not. It seems that the main supplier to hardware stores exiting the market (and saying it was because of regulations) led to the (apparent) rumor that the stuff is "banned".
As stated above the issue involves the requirement to reduce volatile organic compound emissions. A product may have multiple uses and depending on how it is used it may emit volatile organic compounds or not. Alcohol is one such product wherein it has been used extensively as a solvent in many applications and as a dispersant which would volatilize. It becomes difficult to control the uses. As a fuel alcohol when combusted is turned into CO2 and H20. But if it evaporates it will produce ozone. The new Maximum Incremental Reactivity Value of Isopropyl alcohol set by by the California Air Resource Board is 0.61 Maximum Incremental Reactivity (MIR) is one measure of photochemical reactivity, which estimates the weight of ozone produced from a weight of a chemical (e.g. lbs ozone per lb of chemical) under worst case conditions.

Canada proposed VOC regulations have a few deviations from California's due to Canada's cold climate and thus moderately less volatility potentials.

This VOC issue goes far, far beyond alcohol copied below is a summary of many of the goods that are being constrained so as to reduce the VOC emissions by 8 to 10 tons per day State wide. Note that other states will likely follow California's standards and rules, as that becomes the norm and industry and suppliers adapt to the California market requirements.

The new Maximum Incremental Reactivity Value of Isopropyl alcohol set by by the California Air Resource Board is 0.61 Maximum Incremental Reactivity (MIR) is one measure of photochemical reactivity, which estimates the weight of ozone produced from a weight of a chemical (e.g. lbs ozone per lb of chemical) under worst case conditions.

"THE CALIFORNIA AIR RESOURCES BOARD IS CONSIDERING FURTHER REDUCTIONS IN CONSUMER PRODUCTS’ VOC CONTENT TO REDUCE CALIFORNIA’S EMISSIONS UNDER THE CALIFORNIA CLEAN AIR ACT
Wed May 8th, On Environmental Law, by Kimberly Bick

At its April 12, 2019 public workshop to initiate rulemaking to meet these emission reduction commitments, the California Air Resources Board (“CARB”) proposed to evaluate consumer product survey categories with more than 0.5 (“tpd”) VOC emissions as part of its rule development process. Toward this end, CARB conducted its most comprehensive consumer products survey, with 491 survey categories addressed to 1400 companies and covering over a million products in order to collect information to use in its evaluation of lower VOC limits in certain consumer product categories.

The 2016 State Strategy for the State Implementation Plan (“SIP”) required CARB to develop measures to reduce consumer product volatile organic compound (“VOC”) emissions by 1 – 2 tons per day tpd by 2023 and 4 – 5 tpd by 2031, respectively, in the South Coast Air Basin, and 8 -10 tpd by 2031 Statewide. The current VOC percentage by weight limit for certain product categories in California is listed in the Table of Standards in the Regulation for Consumer Products, 17 CCR section 94509 (https://www.arb.ca.gov/consprod/regs...final_2019.pdf).

Some of the products being considered for regulatory amendment include: hair finishing spray, no rinse shampoo, aerosol sunscreen (currently not regulated as a consumer product by CARB), laundry detergent (currently not regulated as a consumer product by CARB), and floor wax stripper. In addition, CARB intends to identify portions of the consumer products VOC regulation that may need updates or clarification, including definitions and reporting requirements.

CARB is holding public work group teleconferences to evaluate the following products:

May 20, 2019 from 10 am to noon — hair finishing spray, no rinse shampoo, permanent dye;
May 22, 2019 from 10 am to noon — laundry detergent, liquid fabric softener, dish soap, aerosol cooking spray;
May 28, 2019 from 10 am to noon — air fresheners;
May 30, 2019, 10 am to noon — nonaerosol general purpose cleaner, nonaerosol general purpose degreaser, aerosol bath and tile cleaner, aerosol glass cleaner; and
June 2019 (date and time to be determined for an in-person meeting) — disinfectants, charcoal lighter, scented candle, antiperspirant, deodorant, body spray, personal fragrance with 20% or less fragrance, hand sanitizer, body wash, hand cleaner or soap, hand and body lotion or moisturizer, sunscreen, shampoo, conditioner, analgesics, rubbing alcohol, topical anti-fungal products, nail polish, mouthwash, pet care products such as pet litter, insecticide, denatured alcohol, paint remover/stripper, automotive windshield washer fluid and additive, auto body repair products, and brake cleaner.
In addition, in the Summer of 2019, CARB will convene meetings of the Regulatory Strategies Work Group and Regulatory Definitions Work Group as needed to continue evaluation of promising categories, examine other possible approaches for achieving emission reductions, and improve program clarity, transparency, and effectiveness. These work group meetings will also consider whether this rulemaking will require product reformulation to meet CARB’s emission reduction commitments.

CARB will hold a second public workshop in Fall 2019, and then CARB hopes to bring a regulatory amendment to the Board for its consideration by late 2020.

The California State Legislature adopted the California Clean Air Act of 1988, which required CARB to adopt regulations of consumer products that are chemically formulated products used by household and institutional consumers in five categories: personal care, automotive and industrial, household, pesticides, and miscellaneous. The California Clean Air Act requires that CARB assure that each new consumer product regulation is commercially and technologically feasible and does not eliminate a product form. To evaluate the feasibility, the Consumer Products Program staff conducts surveys to be completed by manufacturers that sell products in California. The purpose of these surveys is to gather current information on VOC emissions from consumer and commercial product categories. This information allows CARB to determine the feasibility of further reducing consumer product emissions and is used to update CARB’s consumer products emission inventory. According to CARB, consumer products account for about 259 tons per day of VOC emissions in California. To prove that a product sold or distributed complies with CARB’s regulations, CARB requires testing by qualified personnel of the product following the Standard Operating Procedure based on US EPA Method 24/24A and ASTM D2369-97."
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Old 17-01-2020, 19:08   #13
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

"antiperspirant, deodorant, body spray",

I wonder what's the VOC of BO?

A few years ago, our wonderful AQMD banned toluene and substituded mineral spirits in paint thinner, then they changed their minds and banned mineral spirits and substituded toluene for it in paint thinner.

Right now, you can get paint thinner on the east side of the Colorado River, but if you need your pot, you have to go to the west side.
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Old 17-01-2020, 19:31   #14
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Originally Posted by redneckrob View Post
Thank you for that! We had an entire thread here already where a number of folks insisted that it was banned despite no evidence that it was and ample evidence it wasn't. Amazing what a political viewpoint can do to reason, so good to see the definitive explanation. Just too bad for some that it doesn't involve moronic Californians passing idiotic environmental laws as they were so quick to assume and then insist.
"Thank you" for what? If you go to the Sunnyside website (which is one of the third party vendors listed when you search for denatured alcohol at www.Walmart.com) it clearly states "NOT FOR SALE IN CALIFORNIA." https://www.sunnysidecorp.com/produc...cf&b=s&n=834G5

Who is "assuming" and "insisting"?
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Old 17-01-2020, 19:34   #15
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Grainger has it in 1 and 5 gallons, ready for pickup in all branches
I will call Grainger on Monday to see if they still carry it in California. Hope springs eternal but so far it seems to have been banned.
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