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Old 17-01-2020, 18:34   #16
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Perhaps in this case "not for sale in California" means WE don't sell it in California, not that it has been banned entirely.
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Old 17-01-2020, 18:35   #17
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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As of a couple months ago West marine was still carrying it and had not been informed they were banned from selling it.

Edit, ok just checked and they are still selling it.
Definetely NOT in San Diego.
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Old 17-01-2020, 18:40   #18
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Definetely NOT in San Diego.
Oh yeah, ok, I'm talking to the Westmarine in Oxnard. I think Santa Barbara has it too.
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Old 17-01-2020, 18:42   #19
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Oh yeah, ok, I'm talking to the Westmarine in Oxnard. I think Santa Barbara has it too.
In that case, I'll call a few West Marines north of San Diego tomorrow. Thanks.
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Old 17-01-2020, 20:31   #20
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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In that case, I'll call a few West Marines north of San Diego tomorrow. Thanks.
Ask them if they can order it. I bet they can.
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Old 17-01-2020, 20:35   #21
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

I don’t have an alcohol stove, I have a butane catering stove. In the long run I’m replacing with an induction hob as primary cooking source and butane will be backup.
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Old 17-01-2020, 20:37   #22
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
.... The new Maximum Incremental Reactivity Value of Isopropyl alcohol set by by the California Air Resource Board is 0.61 Maximum Incremental Reactivity (MIR) is one measure of photochemical reactivity, which estimates the weight of ozone produced from a weight of a chemical (e.g. lbs ozone per lb of chemical) under worst case conditions....
...
"THE CALIFORNIA AIR RESOURCES BOARD IS CONSIDERING FURTHER REDUCTIONS IN CONSUMER PRODUCTS’ VOC CONTENT TO REDUCE CALIFORNIA’S EMISSIONS UNDER THE CALIFORNIA CLEAN AIR ACT
denatured alcohol, .....

CARB will hold a second public workshop in Fall 2019, and then CARB hopes to bring a regulatory amendment to the Board for its consideration by late 2020. ...
1. Denatured alcohol is ethanol that has been "denatured" - made unsafe to drink - by the deliberate addition of contaminants. Sometimes just a bitterant, sometimes methanol (yet another alcohol), sometimes some other poison.

2. Ethanol's chemical formula is C2H5OH (CARB definition/datasheet - note synonym "denatured alcohol"). Isopropyl alcohol is C3H8O (CARB definition/data sheet). Isopropyl alcohol is not ethanol. Regulations pertaining to isopropyl alcohol having nothing to do with ethanol - denatured or not.

3. The very article you referenced says that CARB is considering changes related to denatured alcohol, with proposed rules to be made public later this year. That's why my post said "no new rules (yet)". They are on the horizon, but they are not here yet. So far we've had public workshops but there hasn't even been a notice of proposed rulemaking with proposed text for public comment. Stay tuned this summer.

4. The point later about Sunnyside is exactly what I said. They will no longer sell denatured alcohol in California. That doesn't mean there is ban, or that it is illegal, it means one business made the business decision to exit the market. The same has happened with home insurance companies and any other number of companies who have decided they don't like the regulatory climate. Nevertheless, the chemical itself is still legal and still available, albeit with a bit of scarcity and price increase because a major supplier has exited the market.

I suspect, but have zero evidence, that Sunnyside saw the handwriting on the wall, doesn't want to get mired in the solvent vs. fuel debate (with possible attendant liabilities if they come out on the wrong side) and made their business decision.
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Old 17-01-2020, 20:43   #23
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Once they stopped carrying it at local hardware stores, I called Grainger Industrial Supply. They sell it for a decent price in 5 gallon drums.
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Old 17-01-2020, 21:11   #24
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Once they stopped carrying it at local hardware stores, I called Grainger Industrial Supply. They sell it for a decent price in 5 gallon drums.
What's even funnier about that is that Grainger stocks and sells Sunnyside. Sunnyside won't ship the product to California, but Grainger will buy it and ship within their system no problem. It is in stock for pickup Monday at any number of Grainger branches throughout California. And note that Grainger specifically labels it as "VOC Content - Exempt Marine Stove Fuel, Alcohol Appliance Fuel" and yet in the very next line of their product details they say "Application Method - Brush, Roll, Cloth". Next time I light my alcohol stove I'm going to try brushing on the alcohol

https://www.grainger.com/search?bran...+alcohol&sst=1

Just for grins, here is what I got when I asked Sunnyside directly:

Quote:
The VOC regulations of the state of California are the reason we do not sell this product there.

XXXXX XXXXX

Customer Service Manager
Sunnyside Corporation
225 Carpenter Ave.
Wheeling, Ill 60090-6095

Office Phone: (847) 541-5700 ext.XXX
Fax: (847) 541-9043
www.sunnysidecorp.com

REGULATORY UPDATE: Paint thinners and solvents exceeding 3% VOC cannot be sold or purchased in the following VOC restricted areas; California, Utah, Maryland, New Hampshire, Delaware, Connecticut and Rhode Island. Please review your banned product list for all VOC restricted areas.
I have to wonder if that is the source of the "banned" meme that has shown up online?
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Old 18-01-2020, 07:56   #25
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

HEET is a product used in cars that Section hikers use on their backpacking adventures for their Alcohol stoves. We all use it. Buy at auto parts store. https://www.99boulders.com/best-alcohol-stove-fuels
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Old 18-01-2020, 08:06   #26
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

I live in California and I just bought a 1/2 gallon at my local marine supply. It depends on the part of the state you are in. In the south where 40 years ago 100 days a year you could not see the next block due to smog they take it differently than where I am. I heat my beach house with madrone firewood here.
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Old 18-01-2020, 08:41   #27
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Why are you changing fuel from propane which is a superior fuel to alcohol? Alcohol is not as hot, invisible flame has created a lot of burns and fires. Safer in some minds but not in mine.
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Old 18-01-2020, 08:52   #28
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

small local mom and pop paint stores still carry it.
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Old 18-01-2020, 09:58   #29
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Yes, that's interesting that it passed that long ago. I can only assume that whatever they passed in 65 wasn't being enforced until now.
Your issue has nothing whatever to do with "Prop 65" no matter what people have told you. It IS about air pollution control regs that try to minimize VOC emissions and the resulting smog.

Prop 65 is the dumbest law ever, but doesn't deserve the blame in this case.

California Air Pollution Control Board rules vary widely--from very helpful, useful, and important to stupid and counter productive.
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Old 18-01-2020, 10:16   #30
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Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

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Your issue has nothing whatever to do with "Prop 65" no matter what people have told you. It IS about air pollution control regs that try to minimize VOC emissions and the resulting smog.

Prop 65 is the dumbest law ever, but doesn't deserve the blame in this case.

California Air Pollution Control Board rules vary widely--from very helpful, useful, and important to stupid and counter productive.
And as we've clearly established in this thread and the previous thread on this subject, CARB also doesn't deserve the blame in this case because they HAVE NOT banned alcohol used for stoves. They may certainly do so in the future, a certain distributors might not want to sell products because they don't want to meet labeling requirements, but as of now it is not banned in CA.
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