Cruisers Forum
 


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-01-2020, 19:34   #16
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 10,093
Images: 53
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Perhaps in this case "not for sale in California" means WE don't sell it in California, not that it has been banned entirely.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline  
Old 17-01-2020, 19:35   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 335
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
As of a couple months ago West marine was still carrying it and had not been informed they were banned from selling it.

Edit, ok just checked and they are still selling it.
Definetely NOT in San Diego.
magentawave is offline  
Old 17-01-2020, 19:40   #18
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 10,093
Images: 53
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magentawave View Post
Definetely NOT in San Diego.
Oh yeah, ok, I'm talking to the Westmarine in Oxnard. I think Santa Barbara has it too.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline  
Old 17-01-2020, 19:42   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 335
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Oh yeah, ok, I'm talking to the Westmarine in Oxnard. I think Santa Barbara has it too.
In that case, I'll call a few West Marines north of San Diego tomorrow. Thanks.
magentawave is offline  
Old 17-01-2020, 21:31   #20
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 10,093
Images: 53
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magentawave View Post
In that case, I'll call a few West Marines north of San Diego tomorrow. Thanks.
Ask them if they can order it. I bet they can.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline  
Old 17-01-2020, 21:35   #21
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 13,073
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

I don’t have an alcohol stove, I have a butane catering stove. In the long run I’m replacing with an induction hob as primary cooking source and butane will be backup.
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
Adelie is online now  
Old 17-01-2020, 21:37   #22
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Petersburg, AK
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 3,722
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
.... The new Maximum Incremental Reactivity Value of Isopropyl alcohol set by by the California Air Resource Board is 0.61 Maximum Incremental Reactivity (MIR) is one measure of photochemical reactivity, which estimates the weight of ozone produced from a weight of a chemical (e.g. lbs ozone per lb of chemical) under worst case conditions....
...
"THE CALIFORNIA AIR RESOURCES BOARD IS CONSIDERING FURTHER REDUCTIONS IN CONSUMER PRODUCTS’ VOC CONTENT TO REDUCE CALIFORNIA’S EMISSIONS UNDER THE CALIFORNIA CLEAN AIR ACT
denatured alcohol, .....

CARB will hold a second public workshop in Fall 2019, and then CARB hopes to bring a regulatory amendment to the Board for its consideration by late 2020. ...
1. Denatured alcohol is ethanol that has been "denatured" - made unsafe to drink - by the deliberate addition of contaminants. Sometimes just a bitterant, sometimes methanol (yet another alcohol), sometimes some other poison.

2. Ethanol's chemical formula is C2H5OH (CARB definition/datasheet - note synonym "denatured alcohol"). Isopropyl alcohol is C3H8O (CARB definition/data sheet). Isopropyl alcohol is not ethanol. Regulations pertaining to isopropyl alcohol having nothing to do with ethanol - denatured or not.

3. The very article you referenced says that CARB is considering changes related to denatured alcohol, with proposed rules to be made public later this year. That's why my post said "no new rules (yet)". They are on the horizon, but they are not here yet. So far we've had public workshops but there hasn't even been a notice of proposed rulemaking with proposed text for public comment. Stay tuned this summer.

4. The point later about Sunnyside is exactly what I said. They will no longer sell denatured alcohol in California. That doesn't mean there is ban, or that it is illegal, it means one business made the business decision to exit the market. The same has happened with home insurance companies and any other number of companies who have decided they don't like the regulatory climate. Nevertheless, the chemical itself is still legal and still available, albeit with a bit of scarcity and price increase because a major supplier has exited the market.

I suspect, but have zero evidence, that Sunnyside saw the handwriting on the wall, doesn't want to get mired in the solvent vs. fuel debate (with possible attendant liabilities if they come out on the wrong side) and made their business decision.
Dsanduril is offline  
Old 17-01-2020, 21:43   #23
Registered User
 
Santiano's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: San Francisco, USA
Boat: Pearson 323
Posts: 61
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Once they stopped carrying it at local hardware stores, I called Grainger Industrial Supply. They sell it for a decent price in 5 gallon drums.
Santiano is offline  
Old 17-01-2020, 22:11   #24
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Petersburg, AK
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 3,722
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiano View Post
Once they stopped carrying it at local hardware stores, I called Grainger Industrial Supply. They sell it for a decent price in 5 gallon drums.
What's even funnier about that is that Grainger stocks and sells Sunnyside. Sunnyside won't ship the product to California, but Grainger will buy it and ship within their system no problem. It is in stock for pickup Monday at any number of Grainger branches throughout California. And note that Grainger specifically labels it as "VOC Content - Exempt Marine Stove Fuel, Alcohol Appliance Fuel" and yet in the very next line of their product details they say "Application Method - Brush, Roll, Cloth". Next time I light my alcohol stove I'm going to try brushing on the alcohol

https://www.grainger.com/search?bran...+alcohol&sst=1

Just for grins, here is what I got when I asked Sunnyside directly:

Quote:
The VOC regulations of the state of California are the reason we do not sell this product there.

XXXXX XXXXX

Customer Service Manager
Sunnyside Corporation
225 Carpenter Ave.
Wheeling, Ill 60090-6095

Office Phone: (847) 541-5700 ext.XXX
Fax: (847) 541-9043
www.sunnysidecorp.com

REGULATORY UPDATE: Paint thinners and solvents exceeding 3% VOC cannot be sold or purchased in the following VOC restricted areas; California, Utah, Maryland, New Hampshire, Delaware, Connecticut and Rhode Island. Please review your banned product list for all VOC restricted areas.
I have to wonder if that is the source of the "banned" meme that has shown up online?
Dsanduril is offline  
Old 18-01-2020, 08:56   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Mexico
Boat: 1964 MORGAN COLUMBIA 40
Posts: 13
Images: 1
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

HEET is a product used in cars that Section hikers use on their backpacking adventures for their Alcohol stoves. We all use it. Buy at auto parts store. https://www.99boulders.com/best-alcohol-stove-fuels
Thoth al Khem is offline  
Old 18-01-2020, 09:06   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Manila, California
Boat: Cape George pilothouse 36 and a Cape Dory 25
Posts: 614
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

I live in California and I just bought a 1/2 gallon at my local marine supply. It depends on the part of the state you are in. In the south where 40 years ago 100 days a year you could not see the next block due to smog they take it differently than where I am. I heat my beach house with madrone firewood here.
fatherchronica is offline  
Old 18-01-2020, 09:41   #27
Registered User
 
KadeyKrogen38's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Clear Lake, TX
Boat: Kadey Krogen 38
Posts: 199
Images: 1
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Why are you changing fuel from propane which is a superior fuel to alcohol? Alcohol is not as hot, invisible flame has created a lot of burns and fires. Safer in some minds but not in mine.
KadeyKrogen38 is offline  
Old 18-01-2020, 09:52   #28
er9
cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2014
Boat: 1980 (Canning) Mariner36
Posts: 836
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

small local mom and pop paint stores still carry it.
er9 is offline  
Old 18-01-2020, 10:58   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,008
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magentawave View Post
Yes, that's interesting that it passed that long ago. I can only assume that whatever they passed in 65 wasn't being enforced until now.
Your issue has nothing whatever to do with "Prop 65" no matter what people have told you. It IS about air pollution control regs that try to minimize VOC emissions and the resulting smog.

Prop 65 is the dumbest law ever, but doesn't deserve the blame in this case.

California Air Pollution Control Board rules vary widely--from very helpful, useful, and important to stupid and counter productive.
billknny is offline  
Old 18-01-2020, 11:16   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 871
Re: CALIFORNIANS: Where are you buying alcohol for your alcohol stove now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billknny View Post
Your issue has nothing whatever to do with "Prop 65" no matter what people have told you. It IS about air pollution control regs that try to minimize VOC emissions and the resulting smog.

Prop 65 is the dumbest law ever, but doesn't deserve the blame in this case.

California Air Pollution Control Board rules vary widely--from very helpful, useful, and important to stupid and counter productive.
And as we've clearly established in this thread and the previous thread on this subject, CARB also doesn't deserve the blame in this case because they HAVE NOT banned alcohol used for stoves. They may certainly do so in the future, a certain distributors might not want to sell products because they don't want to meet labeling requirements, but as of now it is not banned in CA.
redneckrob is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
buying, cal, california, stove

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Friendly Californians, even the sea lions deckofficer General Sailing Forum 13 14-05-2014 09:35
WANTED: Used alcohol stove or other relic ssullivan Classifieds Archive 11 08-08-2009 17:00
Origo 3000 Free Standing Double-burner Alcohol Stove Triton318 Classifieds Archive 3 26-05-2008 15:16

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.