Boat listing price vs offer vs actual sale price

[LiveAboardTom]

New to the forum and after searching I did not find a thread (but have to think it is because I am not searching the forum correctly).

I am looking to buy a live aboard boat in CA within the next month or so. Selling a house and already have approval for a live-aboard slip. I'm going to end up paying for the slip before I have the boat but given how hard it is to get a legal liveaboard in So Cal nowadays that is fine.

I have seen maybe twenty boats. Missed out on one (it was the second boat I saw and by the time I saw enough to realize it was a good boat at a decent price it was already under offer), and have a far better idea now of what I want. Something 38 to 40 ft with a decent aft cabin / bunk but not a quarter berth (unless I see one I love). I am single and the slip limits me to 40 ft.

My question is: what sort of offer do people make compared to listing price? Every broker says their boats sell for full asking and that other brokers boats are overpriced, but I figure there has to be some wiggle room.

At the high end of the range is maybe 80,000 to $120,000 for a newer turnkey and in my day dreams my house sells for asking and I can afford to splurge a bit.

The other end of the scale is $40,000 to $60,000. Not looking for a project boat. I saw some boats that were just ....

In the $40,000 to $60,000 range I have seen a few decent boats that may need electronics upgraded, or sails, or something else but are otherwise fairly sound and ready to sail.

So, on a $100,000 boat can I offer $60,000 or would that get an automatic no? and I know there are variables to any offer but when someone lists a boat how much room do you think they have in their price?

Thanks in advance for any insights and sorry if I am just missing a thread that talks about this. If so send me the link and I will follow gladly.

[Sailing August]

Boats and their intrinsic value are driven by emotion. Owners often think that their vessels are worth much more than they actually are. Sometimes owners just want the vessel sold so that they can be done with it. You never know what you are going to get. That is why you have to go look at almost every deal that interests you. The main thing to remember.....only offer what YOU are willing to pay for it. Regardless of what the owner is asking. I look at each deal in detail and never forget that the deal must make financial sense. The purchase price + the cost to make it a safe a reliable vessel cannot exceed the value of similar vessels on the market.
....Fixer-Uppers are rarely a bargain once you get into them. Choose wisely.

[gonesail]

from my experience selling price is almost always less than asking price. the key word is negotiations. if a seller is unwilling to negotiate then move on. there is always another boat. on the other hand find something you like and don't compromise. if you are going to live aboard maybe the boat doesn't need to be ready to cruise. good idea to line up a slip. also be sure to check on insurance and get a good survey. you may want to wait until your house sells

[JimsCAL]

There is no simple rule. Some boats are fairly priced and sell for close to asking. Others are overpriced and either sell well below asking or don't sell at all. You need to get an understanding of the market for the boats you are interested in.

[5BTM]

I don't negotiate, I pay the asking price if I want the boat, walk away if it is a turd.

Personally I get pleasure knowing that the owner will always regret not asking for more.

[sailingharry]

There is no standard amount of overpricing on the market. See that by looking at pricing on common models, and seeing the wildly varying prices. If one "Go Fast 34" is moderately equipped and decent shape for 34,000, and another "Go Fast 34" with recent electronics is 100,000, I'd say there is a lot more negotiation built into the latter. I have made offers 80% below asking price, and still thank my lucky stars that it was turned down. I sold my last boat for less than 10% below asking price -- I priced it well and would have laughed at a 20% underbid. My mom just sold their 40 year old motorsailor for less than 10% below asking, and turned down several 20% underbids without even making a counter offer.

[MicHughV]

Most yacht brokers are in the know about a boat's value. They have access to "solds" not available to the general public. I would ask a broker to show you some " comparable" prices for a given boat. They can show you both the ask and sold prices for a boat, giving you a range of $$$ to consider.
The intrinsic value of a boat, ie, hull condition, rigging and sails, engine are the basic intrinsic value. Add on's and electronics do not usually affect the price of a boat that much, as these can vary from boat to boat, as well as age of equipment, etc.

The bottom of a boat is a big ???...until you have the boat hauled, no telling what you will find and see.
Lastly get a good boat surveyor, some are tops in the game, others aren't worth a dime. A survey and haulout will be on your dime, some people, having invested in this cost are reluctant to walk from a bad boat, don't be one of them. If the survey sucks, walk away, put the $$ you have invested as " experience".

Don't let the "paid" slip be a driver in your decision. Take your time. The right boat will come at the right time at the right price

[paralog]

Originally Posted by JimsCAL

There is no simple rule. Some boats are fairly priced and sell for close to asking. Others are overpriced and either sell well below asking or don't sell at all. You need to get an understanding of the market for the boats you are interested in.

As a long term liveaboard in a marine we all get to see boats that sell and those that dont' and learn the reasons why.

There was a Celestial in the marina here that the owner was asking way over the current price they were listed for on Yachtworld, it sat and sat for a couple of years. Unfortunately the owner passed away, the family took advice and listed at a proper fair price and its sold within a couple of weeks.

There is another boat in the marina that is being held back by family members thinking the boat is worth far more than what it is actually worth. If they had sold it 2-3 years ago for quite a bit less than they thought it was worth if would have sold. Now it is becoming a rusting hulk with lifting teak decks, weeks growing out of the deck, all canvas rotten. Now they will be lucky to get 10% of what would have sold for 2-3 years ago.

Boats that are priced right sell.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by LiveAboardTom

New to the forum and after searching I did not find a thread (but have to think it is because I am not searching the forum correctly).

I am looking to buy a live aboard boat in CA within the next month or so. Selling a house and already have approval for a live-aboard slip. I'm going to end up paying for the slip before I have the boat but given how hard it is to get a legal liveaboard in So Cal nowadays that is fine.

I have seen maybe twenty boats. Missed out on one (it was the second boat I saw and by the time I saw enough to realize it was a good boat at a decent price it was already under offer), and have a far better idea now of what I want. Something 38 to 40 ft with a decent aft cabin / bunk but not a quarter berth (unless I see one I love). I am single and the slip limits me to 40 ft.
Keep your eye on that boat under offer. A lot of them fall through.


My question is: what sort of offer do people make compared to listing price? Every broker says their boats sell for full asking and that other brokers boats are overpriced, but I figure there has to be some wiggle room.
All brokers will say that to induce a frenzy to buy from them and quickly. I have dealt with seven over the years and can say over half were self-serving crooks.


At the high end of the range is maybe 80,000 to $120,000 for a newer turnkey and in my day dreams my house sells for asking and I can afford to splurge a bit.

The other end of the scale is $40,000 to $60,000. Not looking for a project boat. I saw some boats that were just ....
In the $40,000 to $60,000 range I have seen a few decent boats that may need electronics upgraded, or sails, or something else but are otherwise fairly sound and ready to sail.
You can buy a lot of boat in this price range. Then add updated electronics and rigging and come out on top.

So, on a $100,000 boat can I offer $60,000 or would that get an automatic no? and I know there are variables to any offer but when someone lists a boat how much room do you think they have in their price?
Jokingly, I tell people to keep lowering offers until a seller punches you in the nose...then you'll know you went too far.

Seriously, you are better off making a reasonable offer contingent on a survey. A good surveyor will always find something wrong with the boat. And if the seller has not disclosed to you that the mainsail is in poor shape or some electronics are dead, then you have a negotiation chip.
So if you offered 15% under listing and settled on 10% below, you could still ask for compensation for undisclosed problems. When a seller has someone biting and has money, they are likely to work something out.


Thanks in advance for any insights and sorry if I am just missing a thread that talks about this. If so send me the link and I will follow gladly.

Good luck...

[CarinaPDX]

Owners usually over-value their boats, and brokers are happy to set a high asking price (more commissions). At least around here the owner pays for the moorage and insurance while the boat is listed, so no harm to the broker if the boat sits for years before someone comes along (and this happens a lot). I know of one case where the owner got tired of spending that much money and asked the broker to lower the asking price to move the boat and the broker refused - told him he wouldn't list it at that price and it would have to move. You can look on yachtworld.com for listings and current asking prices but to know the history of asking prices and the actual selling prices you would have to have access to the broker's information site (paid-for access). Sometimes brokerage boats are well priced but far too often they are high, and especially with boats that have hidden problems such as core delamination or rot. (Always buy subject to a survey!) You might look around for owners trying to arrange direct sales, which may also give better pricing insight - or not. By intent there is no pricing transparency in the marine market, and the asymmetrical nature of the knowledge puts buyers at a disadvantage.

Negotiating can be a delicate thing. Often the best maintained boats have owners that will be insulted by lowball offers, while owners of boats that have been on the market for a long time may respond well to a lowball, just to be out of it. There is no one size fits all. Good luck.

Greg

[macieknan]

No need to guess, at least not for any production boats.. Once you find a vessel you like, email any US based boat broker to send you boats sold comps for this model and age plus minus 2 years. They will provide you a report, free of charge, with listing and actual sold prices and locations.

[LiveAboardTom]

Thank you all. Getting the numbers for sold boats from another broker makes sense, Is that then a "buyers broker?"

[Rumbottle]

On Worldwide listings you don't see the Selling Price advertised, only the Asking Price. The asking price is in fact usually between 20% & 30% more than the selling price. If you are a Broker you can obtain access to this, for a price. Needless to say, Brokers do want to get the best price.

It is essential that you have a very experienced and reputable surveyor so that you know what you will have to spend money on.

If you have a good surveyor, are happy with his summation of the yacht and also the yacht is to your liking, go after it but don't go too low otherwise you'll miss out.

Good luck.

[Tom and Maje]

Welcome!

Do not buy a boat using the seller's broker. Their job is to get the best deal for their client. Get your own broker. Your broker can look up the boat's history and access the "blue book" for boats. He can also negotiate with the seller's broker. Our broker saved us over $10,000. Unfortunately, he retired.

Maje

[Stewie12]

I was a yacht broker for many years and have to agree with the comments already made. Most of the listings I took were overpriced to start with. It would have been less of an insult to say that the owners wife had two heads that to say his yacht was overpriced. I used to wait until the owner asked why his yacht was not selling and then explain that he needed to take into account the marina fees, maintenance cost and insurance etc over the next year or so , if he did not decrease the price. Then more often than not I would be asked for advice on the price and then the yacht would be sold. It all boils down to how serious the owner is about selling and how much you offer and how much he will take. If you make a low offer make it presentable by saying something like. I realise that your yacht is worth more and I am not being insulting but my offer is what I can afford. More often than not a deal was struck with both parties compromising.