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Old 17-06-2020, 12:36   #16
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

Maybe I'm missing something. Does the residency have anything to do with the oil kickback to Alaskan residences?
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Old 17-06-2020, 12:41   #17
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

The "technical violation" is the galling part. As Bill points out, the freezers on our boats would be lucky to handle even one good sized halibut, so it would be very difficult to exceed subsistence quotas while living aboard. But if an officer wanted to write a violation they could, even though we have far fewer places to hide illegitimate catch than does a land-dweller.
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Old 17-06-2020, 13:08   #18
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
The "technical violation" is the galling part. As Bill points out, the freezers on our boats would be lucky to handle even one good sized halibut, so it would be very difficult to exceed subsistence quotas while living aboard. But if an officer wanted to write a violation they could, even though we have far fewer places to hide illegitimate catch than does a land-dweller.
That makes your situation much clearer. The 25 fish/day made it sound like you were commercially fishing. Is there not an IRS office you can visit? Do you stay at one marina? What is the advantage, taxes?
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Old 17-06-2020, 13:30   #19
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

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Originally Posted by Tortuga's Lie View Post
I have thought about the same issue here on the Chesapeake as they are restrictive on stripped bass. Do I clean my fish when at anchor, underway or dinghy to shore to clean? If I have frozen fish, do they consider this a questionable catch? I have never been stopped (knock on wood) and have cleaned my fish underway......did I just hear a police siren????
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Here is the law, You are prohibited from : (m) Fillet, mutilate, or otherwise disfigure subsistence halibut in any manner that prevents the determination of the number of fish caught, possessed, or landed.

So I don't think that includes cleaning, ie gutting, descaling etc.
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Old 17-06-2020, 13:54   #20
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

It's not the cleaning part that's a problem, it's the cutting it up and storing it in your freezer (or drying it, or salting it, or smoking it if you are old school). You can do that at your house, but when your house is the boat from which you are fishing...

Once you land halibut and take it home there's no way to tell if it is subsistence, or commercial, or store bought, so having it cut up is moot. But having it on a boat you have to keep all the variations separate (as in only one variety on the boat at a time) which makes enforcement much simpler, but living on a boat more difficult.

Unfortunately I don't have a solution for the OP because I understand why the rules were set up that way and don't see any easy way around them.
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Old 17-06-2020, 14:14   #21
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

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ThumbsUp said -
Here is the law, You are prohibited from : (m) Fillet, mutilate, or otherwise disfigure subsistence halibut in any manner that prevents the determination of the number of fish caught, possessed, or landed.

So I don't think that includes cleaning, ie gutting, descaling etc.
I don't know but the last I heard was size limits also. With nothing harvested under 30" how do you store a 30" + fish with out cutting it up. that changes size. Basically you could not catch one legal fish clean and eat and save left overs.

Break law or go onshore to a restaurant. No good answer. sorry
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Old 17-06-2020, 14:43   #22
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

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I don't know but the last I heard was size limits also. With nothing harvested under 30" how do you store a 30" + fish with out cutting it up. that changes size. Basically you could not catch one legal fish clean and eat and save left overs.

Break law or go onshore to a restaurant. No good answer. sorry
I was going to say - buy a bigger ice box - but then do you even need one in Alaska?
But yea, the whole thing is kinda dumb. That's the problem with being a minority like a liveaboard, they don't think about you when they make laws.
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Old 17-06-2020, 15:15   #23
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

How many enforcement people are there in the area you range in ? It would seem worth while to have a face to face discussion with the supervisor regarding your particular circumstances. In this day and age one could theoretically report all halibut caught by size and weight, location, through email or text messaging to the authorities.

We have plenty of stupid laws, like handgun (pistol) registration in the state of Michigan. All sorts of criminal penalties for non compliance with the registration requirements, this is after jumping through all the background check hoops to get it in the first place. What most people don't realize is that if you sell one of your handguns, the new owner has to register it in his name, but the previous owners name never gets taken off. So even if it is sold 15x then used in a murder, state police and ATF are probably going to show up and ask you questions about something you once owned maybe 10-20 years ago..... If you sell it to someone from out of state, it will be tied to you forever except for a paper 4473 that goes to the FBI for approval. Yet people think these rules somehow make us safer...
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Old 17-06-2020, 16:59   #24
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

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Originally Posted by freshalaska View Post
Not sure how to word this but here goes. I donít own or rent a dirt house. Wife and I are year round live a-boards. How do I prove, demonstrate, document that my boat is my home? Here in Alaska NOAA allows me to harvest 25 subsistence halibut a day only I canít process them on a boat. I keep running into situations where people often governments canít or wonít recognize my boat is my home and only home. My boat is just like any dirt house has all the same basic stuff, only a good part of the year, not all, itís in the water. Must be some way to establish occupancy or residency on a boat. Maybe Iím not explaining this well but I bet you know what Iím getting at. Any ideas. Iím sure others have dealt with this.
Hope this info will be of assistance.

The number that can be harvested under Subsistence Halibut Registration Certificate (SHARC) varies by location and season. In some non-substance water regions, no harvesting is permitted.


Rural means, for purposes of the subsistence fishery for Pacific halibut in waters in and off Alaska, a community of Alaska listed at ß300.65(g)(1) or an area of Alaska described at ß300.65(g)(3) in which the non-commercial, customary, and traditional use of fish and game for personal or family consumption is a principal characteristic of the economy or area and in which there is a long-term, customary, and traditional use of halibut.

Rural resident means, for purposes of the subsistence fishery for Pacific halibut in waters in and off Alaska:

(1) An individual domiciled in a rural community listed in the table at ß300.65(g)(1) and who has maintained a domicile in rural communities listed in the table at ß300.65(g)(1), or in rural areas described at ß300.65(g)(3), for the 12 consecutive months immediately preceding the time when the assertion of residence is made, and who is not claiming residency in another state, territory, or country; or

(2) An individual domiciled in a rural area described at ß300.65(g)(3) and who has maintained a domicile in rural areas described at ß300.65(g)(3), or in rural communities listed in the table at ß300.65(g)(1), for the 12 consecutive months immediately preceding the time when the assertion of residence is made, and who is not claiming residency in another state, territory, or country.


ďDomicileĒ is defined in Alaska Statute 16.05.940 (11) as ďthe true and permanent home of a person from which the person has no present intention of moving and to which the person intends to return whenever the person is away;ÖĒ

So you are stating your domicile is your boat. Good enough. Then one has to determine if your boat / domicile is and was located for 12 consecutive months immediately preceding the time when the assertion of residence is made, in the specific described rural areas or rural communities, specified above. From the figures it appears the designation of rural and non-rural areas are denoted as parcels of land, and not zones of water. The only areas of designation for water zoning appears to be non-subsistence water zones. So it looks like you may have some difficulty in claiming rural residency status unless your boat has been put up on the hard in one of the non-rural areas or communities; guessing here but seems unlikely that, given that most shipyards are probably located in non-rural areas and you probably have not been on the hard for 12 months. But perhaps you have been tied to land at a marina for 12 consecutive months then I would think that one could argue you resided in the rural area or rural community.

Subsistence means, with respect to waters in and off Alaska, the non-commercial, long-term, customary and traditional use of halibut.

Subsistence halibut means halibut caught by a rural resident or a member of an Alaska Native tribe for direct personal or family consumption as food, sharing for personal or family consumption as food, or customary trade.

Subsistence halibut registration certificate (SHARC) means documentation, issued by NMFS, of the registration required at ß300.65(i).


ß300.65 Catch sharing plan and domestic management measures in waters in and off Alaska.

(g) Subsistence fishing in and off Alaska. No person shall engage in subsistence fishing for halibut unless that person meets the requirements in paragraphs (g)(1), (g)(2), or (g)(3) of this section.

(1) A person is eligible to harvest subsistence halibut if he or she is a rural resident of a community with customary and traditional uses of halibut listed in the following table:

Reference here to locate the tables and figures or areas and communities:
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...e50.11.300_161


I have copied and attached some of the exemplary figures below. There are much clearer .pdf files provided at the above link which you can download.


(2) A person is eligible to harvest subsistence halibut if he or she is a member of an Alaska Native tribe with customary and traditional uses of halibut listed in the following table:


(3) A person is eligible to harvest subsistence halibut if he or she is a rural resident in one of the rural areas of Alaska described as follows:

(i) Southeast Alaska east of 141į W. long., except for the land areas of the Ketchikan Gateway Borough as described at paragraph (g)(4)(i) of this section, the land areas of the City and Borough of Juneau, and the Ketchikan and Juneau non-subsistence marine waters areas as defined in paragraphs (h)(3)(i) and (h)(3)(ii) of this section (see figures 2 and 3 to this subpart E).

(ii) The Alaska Peninsula, Aleutian Islands, Kodiak Island Archipelago, and the area south of the northern boundary of the Bristol Bay Borough and south of 58į39.2′ N. lat. (see figures 5, 6, and 7 to this subpart E).

(iii) Nelson, Nunivak, and Saint Lawrence Islands (see figure 6 to this subpart E).

(iv) All other areas of Alaska within ten statute miles of mean high water on the Bering Sea and Pacific Ocean coasts, south of Cape Espenberg, including along the Kuskokwim River to Bethel, and that are not specified as non-rural land or water areas as defined in paragraph (g)(4) of this section (see figures 4, 5, 6, and 7 to this subpart E).


(4) Non-rural areas consist of the non-subsistence marine waters areas defined in paragraph (h)(3) of this section and the land areas of the following cities and boroughs for purposes of the subsistence fishery for Pacific halibut in waters in and off Alaska:

(i) The Ketchikan Gateway Borough on May 18, 2008. This area encompasses all those islands bounded on the east, north, and west by Behm Canal, Behm Narrows, and Clarence Strait to its junction with Nichols Passage, and on the south by Nichols and Revillagigedo Channel to its junction with Behm Canal. The designated boundaries extend to the center line of Behm Canal, Behm Narrows, Clarence Strait, Nichols Passage, and Revillagigedo Channel, and include all the area of Revillagigedo, Gravina, Pennock, Betton, Grant and other Clover Passage and Naha Bay Islands, Hassler, Gedney, Black, Smeaton, Manzanita, Rudyerd, and Bold Islands, and all other offshore and adjacent islands and inlets thereto (see figure 2 to this subpart E).

(ii) The City and Borough of Juneau (see figure 3 to this subpart E).

(iii) The Greater Anchorage Area Borough (see figures 4 and 5 to this subpart E).

(iv) The Matanuska-Susitna Borough (see figure 5 to this subpart E).

(v) The Kenai Peninsula Borough excluding the area of the Seldovia Census Designated Place, the area south and west of that place, and the area south and west of a line that runs from 59į27.5′ N. lat., 151į31.7′ W. long. to 59į12.5′ N. lat., 151į18.5′ W. long (see figure 5 to this subpart E).

(vi) The City of Valdez (see figures 4 and 5 to this subpart E).

(h) Limitations on subsistence fishing.
Subsistence fishing for halibut may be conducted only by persons who qualify for such fishing pursuant to paragraph (g) of this section and who hold a valid subsistence halibut registration certificate in that person's name issued by NMFS pursuant to paragraph (i) of this section, provided that such fishing is consistent with the following limitations.

Limitations are as to number of fish in caught per day per vessel and in possession, and number of hooks.



(4) Waters in and off Alaska that are not specifically identified as non-subsistence marine waters areas in paragraph (h)(3) of this section are rural for purposes of subsistence fishing for halibut. Subsistence fishing may be conducted in any rural area by any person with a valid subsistence halibut registration certificate in his or her name issued by NMFS under paragraph (i) of this section, except that:

(i) A person who is not a rural resident but who is a member of an Alaska Native tribe that is located in a rural area and that is listed in the table in paragraph (g)(2) of this section is limited to conducting subsistence fishing for halibut only in his or her area of tribal membership.

(ii) A person who is a resident outside the State of Alaska but who is a member of an Alaska Native tribe that is located in a rural area and that is listed in the table in paragraph (g)(2) of this section is limited to conducting subsistence fishing for halibut only in his or her area of tribal membership.

(iii) For purposes of this paragraph (h)(4), ďarea of tribal membershipĒ means rural areas of the Commission regulatory area under which the Organized Tribal Entity is listed in the tables set out in paragraph (g)(2) of this section, or the Bering Sea closed area adjacent to the rural area in which the Alaska Native tribal headquarters is located.

(i) Subsistence registration. A person must register as a subsistence halibut fisher and possess a valid subsistence halibut registration certificate in his or her name issued by NMFS before he or she begins subsistence fishing for halibut in waters in and off Alaska.

(1) A subsistence halibut registration certificate will be issued to any person who registers according to paragraph (i)(2) of this section and who is qualified to conduct subsistence fishing for halibut according to paragraph (g) of this section. The Alaska Region, NMFS, may enter into cooperative agreements with Alaska Native tribal governments or their representative organizations for purposes of identifying persons qualified to conduct subsistence fishing for halibut according to paragraph (g) of this section.



Alaska Resident:
Note the definition an Alaska Resident is NOT the same as the definition of a rural or non-rural resident for Subsistence Halibut harvesting.

Alaska Resident per AS 16.05.415(a): "resident" means a person (including an alien) who is physically present in Alaska with the intent to remain indefinitely and make a home here, has maintained that person's domicile in Alaska for the 12 consecutive months immediately preceding this application for a license, and is not claiming residency or obtaining benefits under a claim of residency in another state, territory, or country; a member of the military service or U.S. Coast Guard who has been permanently stationed in Alaska for the 12 consecutive months immediately preceding this application for a license; or a dependent of a resident member of the military service or U.S. Coast Guard who has lived in Alaska for the 12 consecutive months immediately preceding this application for a license. A person who does not otherwise qualify as a resident may not qualify by virtue of an interest in an Alaska business.

Per AS 16.05.415(b): A person who establishes residency in the state in accordance with the residency provision above remains a resident during an absence from the state unless during the absence the person (1) establishes or claims residency in another state, territory, or country; or (2) performs an act, or is absent under circumstances, that are inconsistent with the intent required under the residency provision above.

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cf...residency%20or

Alaska Residency qualification sheet.
https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cf...qualifications

Linked below are some guidelines to help determine whether you meet the residency requirements to purchase/receive a State of Alaska resident sport fishing, hunting, trapping, or commercial crewmember license.

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/l..._infosheet.pdf
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Old 17-06-2020, 17:19   #25
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

As evidenced by this post, the problem isn't so much the establishment of domicile for permit purposes so much as the domicile being a boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freshalaska View Post
Yes Iím very aware of these regs. I canít even cook and eat a halibut on my home boat. Even I process the halibut on shore I cant bring that processed fish back on my boat.
I want to establish my boat is my home and receive the same rights as anyone elseís home.
It would be fairly easy to live on a boat and meet this requirement for obtaining a subsistence permit:

Quote:
(3) A person is eligible to harvest subsistence halibut if he or she is a rural resident in one of the rural areas of Alaska described as follows:

(i) Southeast Alaska east of 141į W. long., except for the land areas of the Ketchikan Gateway Borough as described at paragraph (g)(4)(i) of this section, the land areas of the City and Borough of Juneau, and the Ketchikan and Juneau non-subsistence marine waters areas as defined in paragraphs (h)(3)(i) and (h)(3)(ii) of this section
That covers pretty much all of the SE Alaska inside waters and some of the gulf coast out to Yakutat.

The problem comes about that even with a permit and a domicile, having the fish aboard a boat presents significantly different regulations than having the fish in your house. When your boat is your house then the more restrictive apply, and this limits the very purpose of the subsistence fishery, which is to allow people to put away food during the pleasant times of the year for use when the weather is less so. It disadvantages people who are boat dwellers even if they otherwise qualify in all ways for a permit and a domicile.
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Old 27-06-2020, 12:32   #26
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

If I wasnít legally eligible for a subsistence permit I wouldn't have one.
I only fish to eat and never harvested more fish and game that I couldnít properly process and preserve. Iím very educated on the laws and have been living a subsistence life for 49 years and am very respectful of our natural resources.
What good is a NOAA subsistence permit if I canít cut the fish up on my boat home to eat it? Even if I process the halibut on shore I canít bring it back on the boat. I donít live on shore. This boat is my home.
Yes I have talked to both federal and state protection officers and they have told me if I cut up the fish in more than four pieces I will be ticketed if the fish was on board. This applies even to sport caught halibut. Iíve caught a halibut that weighed 196 pounds. One fillet would be about 5 feet long a weigh more than 40 pounds.
So what good is a halibut to me if I canít eat it in my home.
I donít catch more fish than I can eat and give a small portion to my elderly friends that can no longer fish.
If Iím not a qualified subsistence user no one is. Iíve lived in the bush without electricity and running water for around 14 years. My trapping cabins had dirt floors. Iíve been 63 days without seeing another human. I spent 9 1/2 days in a tree during a flood. Iíve killed a charging grizzly bear at 100 feet with one bullet left in my rifle. I mushed a team of dogs from Ruby to Nome to Kotzebue to Barrow to Proudhoe Bay and then built a lograft and floated my outfit down the Yukon River back to my home in Ruby. My point is Iíve lived off the land was part of it, it was my life.
Iím clearly being predigest against because my boat is my home. So what good is 25 halibut a day limit if I canít even eat one in my home? I only ask that my boat home be given the same consideration as anyone elseís home.
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Old 27-06-2020, 12:55   #27
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

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Yes I have talked to both federal and state protection officers and they have told me if I cut up the fish in more than four pieces I will be ticketed if the fish was on board.
Perhaps the answer is here; don't cut it up into more than four pieces.

Will that solve the problem?
What happens if you cut it into three pieces that you can eat and save, then dump the remaining amount over board?
Will you get a ticket if you buy the fish on shore and then cook it on the boat? I know that this is not the question, but it almost seems like one cannot have that fish on board for eating.
How likely is it that the apparatchiks will stop your boat and inspect it for illegal fishing?
How often do you catch these fish and what time of the day does this typically occur or is it all times?
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Old 27-06-2020, 13:09   #28
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

Dumbing edible fish overboard is illegal and is morally wrong! Shame on you for suggesting that.
We did get stoped and boarded by protection officers last summer.
Iíve been checked many times over my years in Alaska.
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Old 27-06-2020, 13:15   #29
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

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Originally Posted by freshalaska View Post
Iíve been checked many times over my years in Alaska.
What about the not cutting it into more than four pieces? Are you able to store a large unused piece of fish?
Also, what happens to a person who buys a halibut on shore and preps it for dinner on their boat? Are they going to get into trouble? IF they won't get into trouble, perhaps you could buy one on shore and just keep the receipt for a while and claim what you caught is store bought and was frozen, thus the delay between the purchase and the eating.
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Old 27-06-2020, 13:41   #30
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Re: Boat as my main domicile documentation

I donít know about regs for commercially caught halibut onboard. My guess is the same regs apply.
Protection officers are highly trained and not stupid. If they think your pulling the wool over heir eyes look out, they will get you for something and remember you in the future.
Iím not trying to be Philadelphia lawyer.
My main point is I want the same rights as a dirt house dweller and not treated like a red headed step child or what ever is the saying is.
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