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Old 03-04-2017, 11:07   #16
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

for bluewater start at 38 then add footage, 40-44 would work for you , mim. 5' keel, alberg is a nice boat, ive done it in a 30' tri, but lenght mellows the up and down.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:22   #17
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

"without compromises" = forget about boats.

Anyway, I've noticed an Ingrid 38 with electric conversion on Craigslist for $14K this week. Since this is less than half what others are asking for similar unconverted boats, I'm guessing that something has gone disastrously wrong.

I've always thought that I'd move up to a 40ish-footer to live aboard. But after actually shopping a few, I'm not sure that they offer all that much to a single guy, over a 30-footer, considering the expense. Each of the interior spaces is just a tiny bit bigger, without actually offering any more functionality. (Why does a single guy need a U-shapped dinette that takes up half the boat?) Well, I still might move up, but I think I'd try living on my 30-footer for a year or two first.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:24   #18
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

It's the size of the captain that matters, not the boat. (figuratively speaking)
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Old 03-04-2017, 13:49   #19
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Re: Blue Water Cruser - What size

I'm in Kingston ON...not far from the OP.

I had a Hunter Legend 35.5 (1994). It was spacious, and actually nicer than the apartment I was living in at the time. It had a real shower (and a stern shower), a luxurious king size berth in the aft cabin, a wonderful main cabin with dining table, galley, and settees...wonderful for entertaining...and a big vee cabin. Lots of storage and hanging storage throughout in beautiful wood lockers. It had a stove with oven, freezer and fridge. And ice cold air conditioning for those hot days of summer. In addition to all this comfort, it was also a very good sailing boat with shoal draft. I would not hesitate to recommend this model...it will easily more than satisfy all your stated requirements...except for price. If you want a cheaper version of the same thing, the mid 80's Hunter 34 would be the one to look for.

The Hunter was spacious and comfortable for a family of 4 and a dog.

More recently, I owned a 70's era Pearson 30. I ended up doing too much sailing alone, and found it to be very big for just one person (in terms of space...it was easy to sail and handle solo). There was tons of storage space I never even used. I preferred to sleep in the quarter berth, so the entire vee was totally empty, except for maybe the occasional stray fender. I mention this because that boat (the actual boat, not just the same model) is for sale again (not by me) locally...which is local to you too. It would meet all your criteria, including price (easily). The catch is that the below decks is rather dated...very 70's. If you were planning to remodel(?) below anyway, this might work out well for you. A quick search on kijiji shows several for sale right now in your region.

30 foot sail boat | sailboats | Chatham-Kent | Kijiji
30ft Pearson with many upgrades | sailboats | Sarnia | Kijiji

The Alberg 30 is a great boat. However, its built for ocean crossings. So it has a narrow beam, pointy ends, and a full keel. This combination gives minimal living space below. If living space is a concern, I suggest you look at boats with wide beams that are carried well aft.
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Old 03-04-2017, 14:58   #20
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

Big note for everyone: the topic is about boat models. Not about electric conversion, not about costs, or anything else - I have taken many of those into consideration. So please stay on topic. You have no clue where where I'm going with this, so keep your experience and opinions to yourself. When I have something solid, you will see. The engine bit was for you to know that I might be able to make more space, and that's it.

For those warning me, a kind thank you: I take it as a mild wake up call. I have reserved 18 months of research before I move a finger. Costs, design, materials, gadgets will be outlined and the values added. I am the kind of person that researches so much that it makes you hurt just looking at me research. Ever heard of Kubrick researching, that's me on steroids - Neo learning kung ** in matrix. In the past 8 days, I had free time, I must have had two 48h stretches where I slept no more than 30min-2h because I couldn't stop reading. I've already started downloading books on design, construction sailing, bookmarked tens of DYI boat utube channels, all that will be covered. By next year I will ace this stuff. So that's why I'm not scared - I love it so much that I can't sleep at times - that's raw energy that overcomes any obstacle, that's how I learned photography, that's how I learned other things when everybody was nagging.

It seems to me that we all have our version of compromise. For the record I've heard of at least 1 family living aboard in Toronto; the costs are way lower than a flat - even renting a room. I double checked by calling the marina, so please, no more of this. Now, can we stay on topic.

Thank you for all the model recommendations guys. So good to join a community. I'll reply some more later if I see anything when I re-read this, but now I have some errands to run.

PS: no hard feelings - thanks to all.

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Old 03-04-2017, 16:00   #21
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

If you want a flat buy a trawler. More space. They also don't have that pesky keel or super pointy ends.

Check out sailing uma on youtube for electric conversion. Check out saillife for a grand tour of boat restoration.

Research is great but the proof is in the doing. If you want to liveaboard because it's cheaper then others have shown you the numbers. Don't discount their experience. It's far more valuable than research alone.

Having lived aboard for 4 years now I've yet to see a cheap liveaboard that wasn't a junk heap.
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Old 03-04-2017, 16:06   #22
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

Don't hurt your self with the research. First time buyers always get it wrong the first three or four times.
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Old 03-04-2017, 16:38   #23
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

Leftbrainstuff I don't mind sinking some money into something I own. As opposed to sinking money into rent - which I'll never see again. So where's the pluses and minuses? You know what I mean. If I do this project, to a certain extent, I think I will see back some of the cash I put in. I still have to put every single detail down to really appreciate the situation. Depending on where I live I'm draining 6-12k a year in Toronto on rent alone. I can live like a hobo for a while while I work on this.

Yeah, maybe I'll make some mistakes. But the knowledge I gain - priceless. Cheers,

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Old 03-04-2017, 16:42   #24
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

PS: kmacdonald: 9.8 out of 10 my research has yielded satisfaction and saved me from pain, so I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

I have met top level professionals in certain fields that did not know things that I found early in my research. No mercy.

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Old 03-04-2017, 17:58   #25
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

if you like the Alberg 30, also look into the Alberg 35, Cape Dory's, Nor'sea 27. Some interesting boats that could be plenty to live on. Just everything depends on your comfort level.

I own a Nor'sea 27, and I would feel comfortable living on my boat. Best to get on some boats to get a feel for them.

Good luck
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:32   #26
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrei_ca View Post
If I do this project, to a certain extent, I think I will see back some of the cash I put in.
noobees say the cutest things, don't they?
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Old 04-04-2017, 06:19   #27
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

Googling and researching are two terms often confused.
Try to be a little bit humble and you'll get great responses here.

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Old 04-04-2017, 06:28   #28
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

The thing I found about "sail and boat learning" is that there are two kinds... intellectual learning like reading... and attending a class about something.., and the hands on experience type of learning where you really are juggling lots of stuff... your book knowledge.... the experience/knowledge of the boat... and the information from the environment.

You're not a sailor until you've put a lot of time into ALL types of sail learning. Once you have you integrate this knowledge to inform your actions.
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Old 04-04-2017, 06:52   #29
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

The fact that you are trying to compare an Alberg 30 and an F3 suggests that you need to do a lot more research on the differences between designs. These two boats are entirely different in concept and execution. You also mention in your first post that you want a 'go-anywhere' boat. This seriously ups the ante in terms of what he post would be like. Finally your budget for a live-aboard, go-anywhere boat is unrealistic in the extreme.

Another finally, see what the winter docking situation is in the Toronto area. With the cost of land housing there might be significant waiting lists. I know of three spots: Bluffer's Park in Scarborough, Pier West (or similar name) in the western part of Harbourfront (I know they have a waiting list), and Port Credit Marina.
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Old 04-04-2017, 07:58   #30
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Re: Blue Water Cruiser - What size

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
noobees say the cutest things, don't they?


I know that Alberg 30 and the F3 are extreme opposites. I offered A30 as an extreme of where I'd be willing to go. If I had a choice Freres F3 36, Niagra 35 Catalina 38 (I read its construction is somewhat cheaper?) and C&C 38 would be the kind of designs I'd like to go for.

After some more discussion and reading, I might have to agree with those that suggested I go with what I can afford and get experience from there instead of going crazy with my first boat. That seems to resonate with past experience to a certain extent.

Research for the records includes also speciality books written by professionals not just internet articles - and I will consider the sources suggested here (so thanks for those suggesting design/construction books).

Like I said I wouldn't do anything stupid without running things on paper and possibly double checking with other, like this community. And as you can see my opinion has somewhat started to u-turn a bit. Thanks,

Andrei
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