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Old 26-10-2020, 09:09   #46
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

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Reasonable? If I legally install a private mooring, for my own use, you think it’s "reasonable" to require me to mark it so that you know whether it’s appropriate" for you to trespass on. Then if something goes wrong while you’re stealing the use of my mooring, you want me to be responsible. That doesn’t sound so reasonable to me.
If it's legally installed it will have your name and phone number on it (at least here in Canada). So I can likely call you and both ask permission AND find out if it's appropriate for my boat.

But as I said, very few private moorings are legal since they don't provide the above. In these cases I would have few qualms using it if I had to since the owners are already stealing public land.


I still dislike using any mooring. No matter what the owner thinks, I can never be certain what is really down there. I much prefer my own ground tackle. But as has been mentioned, sometimes these damnable things (private moorings) are placed so that they block all the anchoring.
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Old 26-10-2020, 09:14   #47
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

I have been advised in the past to back down on my anchor with the RPM 100x the expected wind speed.
1) is that felt to be valid by the cf wizards?
2) would it be the same for backing on a mooring?
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Old 26-10-2020, 09:50   #48
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

Ah, marking a mooring with "PRIVATE" and the owner's name and contact information is a nice idea. +1. Color coding it by "size" is a rotten idea. Presumably if I want to use your mooring, I should contact you and get permission. At the same time, there should be some discussion, one would think, about the weight of the anchor and the size/length of the chain/rope. But it’s the boat owners responsibility to decide what’s appropriate. And if something goes wrong, it’s the boat owner's problem. Public and rental moorings, of course, have a whole different set of rules.

It’s just like the legal issues around somebody hunting on my (properly posted) land without permission.
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Old 26-10-2020, 09:58   #49
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

Ten years ago in Mexico, I ran into the problem of new mooring fields taking over a lot of the places where I’d anchored in times past. It forced me to continue sailing because there was no good place to anchor. Which, of course, is why the located the moorings where they did. It was inconvenient for me. I didn’t stop in several places that I’d enjoyed previously. But I can’t complain too loudly that the locals thought of their own needs ahead of the needs of a few visiting sailboats.
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Old 26-10-2020, 10:03   #50
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

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But I canít complain too loudly that the locals thought of their own needs ahead of the needs of a few visiting sailboats.
I dunno, maybe you can complain? Another facet of the NIMBY phenomenon, which is all about selfishness and narcissism. A dominant and increasing way of thinking in the US these days. Less and less consideration of contributing to the greater good and helping others.
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Old 26-10-2020, 10:12   #51
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

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If it's legally installed it will have your name and phone number on it (at least here in Canada). So I can likely call you and both ask permission AND find out if it's appropriate for my boat.

But as I said, very few private moorings are legal since they don't provide the above. In these cases I would have few qualms using it if I had to since the owners are already stealing public land.


I still dislike using any mooring. No matter what the owner thinks, I can never be certain what is really down there. I much prefer my own ground tackle. But as has been mentioned, sometimes these damnable things (private moorings) are placed so that they block all the anchoring.
As a neophyte I ask for clarification: How can you "legally" install a private mooring on public land regardless of the markings?
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Old 26-10-2020, 10:17   #52
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

No way will your motor generate sufficient shock loading to equal a 40 mph wind gust. If you can visually inspect the mooring that is much better. If itís your mooring overengineer it. If itís a rental, your kind of stuck.

I was in the Dutch West Indies and was told I had to use a provided mooring. We looked at it and also deployed an anchor
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Old 26-10-2020, 10:18   #53
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

NIMBY? Please, spare me. A small fishing village I Mexico noted mostly for surfing and supporting a small local fishing fleet, is supposed to consider the "greater good" of a small bunch of visiting foreign sailboats? Get serious.
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Old 26-10-2020, 10:39   #54
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

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NIMBY? Please, spare me. A small fishing village I Mexico noted mostly for surfing and supporting a small local fishing fleet, is supposed to consider the "greater good" of a small bunch of visiting foreign sailboats? Get serious.
Thanks for validating my point.
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Old 26-10-2020, 11:33   #55
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

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Ten years ago in Mexico, I ran into the problem of new mooring fields taking over a lot of the places where I’d anchored in times past. It forced me to continue sailing because there was no good place to anchor. Which, of course, is why the located the moorings where they did. It was inconvenient for me. I didn’t stop in several places that I’d enjoyed previously. But I can’t complain too loudly that the locals thought of their own needs ahead of the needs of a few visiting sailboats.
As I said, I understand the reason why locals would want a mooring. If you're constantly frequenting a location, or better still, if is your home, then it makes perfect sense. But in that case, just place the mooring in a location that doesn't overtly impede anchoring -- that's all.

By their very nature, a mooring can be located in areas inappropriate for anchoring. Place them close to shore, or far out. If they are placed at the periphery of the anchorage, instead of right in the middle, then everyone wins.

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As a neophyte I ask for clarification: How can you "legally" install a private mooring on public land regardless of the markings?
By following the rules. As I understand Canadian law, unless the harbour or area is under some other direct control (typically a municipality), it is legal for Canadians to install private moorings. As long as they don't obstruct normal waterways, and I hope that would include normal anchoring, then they are legal. But they must be clearly marked as specified -- which almost none are.
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Old 26-10-2020, 11:45   #56
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

Private use of public land. This has been a contentious issue since well before the "enclosure of the commons." The guvmint decides that using a resource is "good." Somebody wants to use it. Sotheby’s guvmint gives them a lease, or concession, or just sells it to them. By definition, that legal, since the guvmint make the laws.. You or I might disagree, but we will need lots of help to have any influence. That’s politics. Where I’m at, all the sea floor and for some distance inland, is owned by the guvmint, just like Hawaii. So if I want to install a mooring, I theoretically have to grovel before various guvmint officials, files lots of paperwork, maybe grease a palm or two, and I’ll maybe get permission for a "small fee." Sort of like grazing or mining leases in the western US. Maybe we can whine and complain, but this battle was lost hundreds of years ago.

Anybody who considers supplying service to cruising sailboats as the "greater good" simply isn’t paying attention. Several years ago, there was a story in the paper about 400,000 visitors from cruise ships locally. Each was reputed to spend 500-1000/day on the local economy. The local sports fishing boats don’t much care what things cost. $2/ft/day for a marina? Cost-of-doing business. Maybe 1000 cruising sailboats with an average of 3-4 people aboard, spending a few weeks while they repair or provision? Largely not worth anybody’s time or trouble.

The little fishing village is quite justified to worry about whether their neighbor down the street, who they’ve known all their lives, has a safe mooring for his panga miles ahead of whether some rich gringo has a mooring for their sailboat for a week so that they can come ashore and drink a few beers. The sailboat gringo is even lower on the scale than the surfers who at least stay in the local hotels and eat all their meals in the local restaurants. If that’s NIMBY, you might as well get used to it.
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Old 26-10-2020, 12:00   #57
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

The comment about where to put the moorings is correct, but doesn’t really apply in the two cases I was citing. In one case, it’s a narrow bay, almost all 60 or more feet deep. One side is a well known surf spot. The other side has a relatively small shallow area where the cruisers used to anchor. It was full of pangas. So they installed their moorings in the 20-30’ water closest to town, rather than in 60+ further out. I don’t fault them.

The other case was a lovely enclosed bay close to town. Wonderful for a sailboat. Room for maybe half a dozen. What happened? They built a cruise ship dock at the head of the bay, so almost all the shallow water was right next to shore where there was a big hotel which had all the rest of the useable water reserved for hotel guests to swim. But they built a big marina about 5 miles down the road, but it isn’t free. There is a lovely bay, not on any of the cruising guides, about 10 miles up the coast. No town. No services. No bus into "the big city." But it’s free. Welcome to the real world.
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Old 26-10-2020, 14:45   #58
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

Why back down using just 1500 rpm or half-throttle? Why not back down on the mooring using full throttle? or near-full throttle?

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Old 26-10-2020, 14:56   #59
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

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we managed to motor forward over the block and drag it behind the boat (Lagoon 450)

Wow the mooring block must have been 5 gallon paint bucket of concrete. No way the small engines and props on a cat can create any significant thrust.

Joking aside, Possibly it was a small, newly laid mushroom which hadnít sunk in yet. Did you ever dive it to find out afterwards?
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Old 26-10-2020, 15:02   #60
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Re: Backing Down on a Mooring?

I know of a Catamaran, Cresi Sub, that went on to a reef for total loss due to a mooring ball incident. But simply engine testing the mooring ball would not have shown the problem. The vessel was assisted by one of those boats that force you to rent their mooring in the Caribbean and the Captain was asked to pass a rope for the mooring owner to thread through the galvanized ring. To be safe he actually passed 2 ropes as a backup. He tested the mooring and later in the evening went to sleep and awoke on the reef. What he did not realize was that the owner of the mooring had just replaced the ring and the new ring had a sharp lip in the inside which had not been filed off. During the night the rubbing of the ropes caused them to cut through on the sharp lip. Lesson: Even if you can't dive on the mooring, always check how you are attached to it! I also always use an anchor alarm even when on a mooring ball.
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