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Old 19-04-2019, 17:40   #16
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Re: Back up portable water filter

Use a little bleach in the tank and be done with it. Heaven forbid we ever ran out of bottled water 2,000 miles from civilization.
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Old 20-04-2019, 02:53   #17
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Re: Back up portable water filter

I have installed a Seagull and it is pricey . I can say it does the job and water comes out pure ! Wife super sensitive to virus and any chance of bacteria .
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Old 20-04-2019, 06:45   #18
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Back up portable water filter

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Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
I have always been unable to see the difference between a Seagull filter and other ceramic filters such as the AquaCera CeraMetix or the Doulton Ultracarb. They seem to be identical to me, but the Seagull is 4x the cost upfront and 2x the cost for cartridges.

The only difference I see listed in the specs is the Seagull alone claims to remove viruses. I have never believed that claim. If it were true, I can see how it could justify the additional cost.

I used the Doulton Ceramic filter on my last boat. I was planning to install the AquaCera on my current boat.


The Seagull cartridge is not a ceramic cartridge.
I have busted one open, it seems to be very densely as in compressed carbon powder.

It is very likely overpriced and there is a generic cartridge replacement, but I don’t know if it’s as effective. The cartridge will last at least a full year, but likely at least two if your running clean water through it to begin with, so amortized out it’s not that expensive.
The Seagull filter housing can be found sometimes used, and that and the filter itself are the only parts you really need, the spigot can be a generic one bought off of Amazon, only difference is it doesn’t say Seagull on it.

Assumption is that it has colloidal silver in it, and it kills viruses, not removes them, that is an assumption, cause filtering a virus out and still allowing water through at a rate that is usable, would be tough without a high pressure pump ala Watermaker.
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Old 20-04-2019, 06:55   #19
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Re: Back up portable water filter

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I have always been unable to see the difference between a Seagull filter and other ceramic filters such as the AquaCera CeraMetix or the Doulton Ultracarb. They seem to be identical to me, but the Seagull is 4x the cost upfront and 2x the cost for cartridges.

The only difference I see listed in the specs is the Seagull alone claims to remove viruses. I have never believed that claim. If it were true, I can see how it could justify the additional cost.

I used the Doulton Ceramic filter on my last boat. I was planning to install the AquaCera on my current boat.

Exactly. They sell magic and are out of touch with the current filter market. There are much better values.


NSF 53 certified filters in general are at a very high level of effectiveness for $15-$20 + $25 hoursing. P231 (the standard Seagull talks about but is NOT actually certified under) has become relatively wide spread, though more expensive.


But remember the bit about diminishing returns. Unless you intend to eat only boiled food and stay on the boat, you are going to be exposed to food, people, and ambient air. By all means, maintain safe water, but there will always be exposure.



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Old 22-04-2019, 22:17   #20
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Re: Back up portable water filter

Having used many filters in aquariums and many types of filters backpacking, it would seem to me that an over all comprehensive filtration "system" would require at least two stages, maybe three.

The first stage would be to remove the bigger stuff and the resulting filters would have to be changed out the most frequent, the second two stages would be the more expensive purifying types, perhaps like the Sea Gull's get up. I know I have used smaller cheaper filters on my home tap water years ago and the filter change was frequent as the bigger stuff would plug it up and affect flow rate quickly, it seemed to me.

So is there a good two or three stage unit that is marine suitable?
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Old 23-04-2019, 04:58   #21
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Re: Back up portable water filter

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So is there a good two or three stage unit that is marine suitable?
Nothing particularly marine about it, but what I described above is a 2- (or maybe 3- depending on how you count) stage system. Just uses two household filter elements and housings.

Check our Pentek DGD-2501 and Pentek FloPlus-10 -- and suitable housings -- at someplace like filtersfast.com. That would be 25 micron, 1 micron, and .5 micron filtering. Hoses and quick-connects to put the system together, fill the tank, take it apart and stow, done, cheap.

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Old 23-04-2019, 05:28   #22
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Re: Back up portable water filter

You can order Doulton ceramic 10" (standard housing) filters with or without carbon. These are cleanable with a scotchbrite pad and have .1 micron rating which filters out bacteria. I fill my tanks with one. The newer thing is hollow fiber Ultrafiltration which filters down to .01 microns. These even remove viruses. They clog more easily but are backflushable. They are starting to be available in standard sizes and there are also "backpackers" versions that come with a large syringe for backflushing.
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Old 23-04-2019, 06:29   #23
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Back up portable water filter

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Originally Posted by rsn48 View Post
So is there a good two or three stage unit that is marine suitable?

I placed a 10” filter housing right at the pump outlet so that all water goes through it, I’m currently using a 20 micron filter that is also used in our Watermaker. It lasts a long time, maybe year before it starts to slow water flow.
Of course all my water is filtered from the dock when we take on water through a 1 micron carbon filter, I use a 1 micron to slow the flow rate way down, I don’t believe a carbon filter can be effective removing chlorine unless the water has some significant contact time with the carbon.
We have been on Watermaker water only since Oct last year, it shouldn’t need any filtering, but the filter is there so why not.
Just due to it seeming that on our Watermaker it’s the 20 micron filters that clog way more often that the 5, I’ll likely put a 5 micron on the pump outlet, but only because I have more of them.


If your filtering fresh water, no requirement for any kind of Marine label.

I like the Seagull as they have had independent testing done, and publish the results, not many have.
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Old 23-04-2019, 07:08   #24
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Re: Back up portable water filter

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Originally Posted by Sailor647 View Post
We made a water filtration system that we can hook up to any dock water in Mexico. It removes sediment and purifies with the UV. It doesn't, however, remove any heavy metals if present. The UV requires 110v.
SAILOR, have you confirmed that the water receives enough exposure time under UV light, especially considering the high flow rate of a hose source?
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Old 23-04-2019, 07:14   #25
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Re: Back up portable water filter

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
The Seagull cartridge is not a ceramic cartridge.
I have busted one open, it seems to be very densely as in compressed carbon powder.

It is very likely overpriced and there is a generic cartridge replacement, but I don’t know if it’s as effective. The cartridge will last at least a full year, but likely at least two if your running clean water through it to begin with, so amortized out it’s not that expensive.
The Seagull filter housing can be found sometimes used, and that and the filter itself are the only parts you really need, the spigot can be a generic one bought off of Amazon, only difference is it doesn’t say Seagull on it.

Assumption is that it has colloidal silver in it, and it kills viruses, not removes them, that is an assumption, cause filtering a virus out and still allowing water through at a rate that is usable, would be tough without a high pressure pump ala Watermaker.
Agreed.

We have one and it's a waste. We first plump our water through an affordable Pentek SCBC-10 10" Silvered Carbon block filter and then on to the seagull. I had my water tested without a filter, with just the Pentek, and then with just the Seagull, and then with both. The Pentek filter in a normal housing filters so much out that the Seagull doesn't get any additional contaminants out. I really can't recommend the seagull to anyone anymore.

Now - I would add a UV light but that is low on my boat update list.
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Old 23-04-2019, 07:18   #26
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Re: Back up portable water filter

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Originally Posted by makobuilders View Post
SAILOR, have you confirmed that the water receives enough exposure time under UV light, especially considering the high flow rate of a hose source?

Speaking of UV, if a brief exposure to UV will do the trick, then rather obviously, so will leaving water in the sun. This has been researched by WHO and others. Excellent desert island knowledge. The main thing is that you MUST filter out the large particulates with cloth first.



https://www.sodis.ch/methode/index_EN
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3440092/
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Old 23-04-2019, 10:57   #27
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Re: Back up portable water filter

I also wonder about the effective treatment of water with a UV filter given the short amount of time the water runs through it, probably at most 1.5 seconds. In an aquarium environment you are dealing a "closed" system so water is recirculated through UV filters hundreds if not thousands of times. I don't pretend to know the answer but my initial guess would be - the exposure period is to short for UV to be effective.

Here is more than you'll ever want to know about UV filtration:


UV Disinfection Drinking Water
Written by Mr. Brian Oram, PG
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Drinking Water Treatment with UV Irradiation

Ultraviolet (UV) rays are part of the light that comes from the sun. The UV spectrum is higher in frequency than visible light and lower in frequency compared to x-rays. This also means that the UV spectrum has a larger wavelength than x-rays and a smaller wavelength than visible light and the order of energy, from low to high, is visible light, UV, than x-rays. As a water treatment technique, UV is known to be an effective disinfectant due to its strong germicidal (inactivating) ability. UV disinfects water containing bacteria and viruses and can be effective against protozoans like, Giardia lamblia cysts or Cryptosporidium oocysts. UV has been used commercially for many years in the pharmaceutical, cosmetic, beverage, and electronics industries, especially in Europe. In the US, it was used for drinking water disinfection in the early 1900s but was abandoned due to high operating costs, unreliable equipment, and the expanding popularity of disinfection by chlorination.

Because of safety issues associated with the reliance of chlorination and improvement in the UV technology, UV has experienced increased acceptance in both municipal and household systems. There are few large-scale UV water treatment plants in the United States although there are more than 2,000 such plants in Europe. There are two classes of disinfection systems certified and classified by the NSF under Standard 55 – Class A and Class B Units.

Class A — These ultraviolet water treatment systems must have an ‘intensity & saturation’ rating of at least 40,000 uwsec/cm2 and possess designs that will allow them to disinfect and/or remove microorganisms from contaminated water. Affected contaminants should include bacteria and viruses
"Class A point-of-entry and point-of-use systems covered by this Standard are designed to inactivate and/or remove microorganisms, including bacteria, viruses, Cryptosporidium oocyst and Giardia cysts, from contaminated water. Systems covered by this standard are not intended for the treatment of water that has obvious contamination or intentional source such as raw sewage, nor are systems intended to convert wastewater to drinking water. The systems are intended to be installed on visually clear water."

Class B — These ultraviolet water treatment systems must have an ‘intensity & saturation’ rating of at least 16,000 uw-sec/cm2 and possess designs that will allow them to provide supplemental bactericidal treatment of water already deemed ‘safe’. i.e., no elevated levels of E. coli. or a standard plate count of less than 500 colonies per 1 ml. NSF Standard 55 "Class B" UV systems are designed to operate at a minimum dosage and are intended to "reduce normally occurring non-pathogenic or nuisance microorganisms only." The "Class B" or similar non-rated UV systems are not intended for the disinfection of "microbiologically unsafe water."

Therefore, the type of unit depends on your situation, source of water, and your water quality. Transmitted UV light dosage is affected by water clarity. Water treatment devices are dependent on the quality of the raw water. When turbidity is 5 NTU or greater and/or total suspended solids are greater than 10 ppm, pre-filtration of the water is highly recommended. Normally, it is advisable to install a 5 to 20 micron filter prior to a UV disinfection system.

Principles of UV Disinfection

UV radiation has three wavelength zones: UV-A, UV-B, and UV-C, and it is this last region, the shortwave UV-C, that has germicidal properties for disinfection. A low-pressure mercury arc lamp resembling a fluorescent lamp produces the UV light in the range of 254 manometers (nm). A nm is one billionth of a meter (10^-9 meter). These lamps contain elemental mercury and an inert gas, such as argon, in a UV-transmitting tube, usually quartz. Traditionally, most mercury arc UV lamps have been the so-called "low pressure" type, because they operate at relatively low partial pressure of mercury, low overall vapor pressure (about 2 mbar), low external temperature (50-100oC) and low power. These lamps emit nearly monochromatic UV radiation at a wavelength of 254 nm, which is in the optimum range for UV energy absorption by nucleic acids (about 240-280 nm).

In recent years medium pressure UV lamps that operate at much higher pressures, temperatures and power levels and emit a broad spectrum of higher UV energy between 200 and 320 nm have become commercially available. However, for UV disinfection of drinking water at the household level, the low-pressure lamps and systems are entirely adequate and even preferred to medium pressure lamps and systems. This is because they operate at lower power, lower temperature, and lower cost while being highly effective in disinfecting more than enough water for daily household use. An essential requirement for UV disinfection with lamp systems is an available and reliable source of electricity. While the power requirements of low-pressure mercury UV lamp disinfection systems are modest, they are essential for lamp operation to disinfect water. Since most microorganisms are affected by radiation around 260 nm, UV radiation is in the appropriate range for germicidal activity. There are UV lamps that produce radiation in the range of 185 nm that are effective on microorganisms and will also reduce the total organic carbon (TOC) content of the water. For typical UV system, approximately 95 percent of the radiation passes through a quartz glass sleeve and into the untreated water. The water is flowing as a thin film over the lamp. The glass sleeve is designed to keep the lamp at an ideal temperature of approximately 104 °F.

UV Radiation (How it Works)
UV radiation affects microorganisms by altering the DNA in the cells and impeding reproduction. UV treatment does not remove organisms from the water, it merely inactivates them. The effectiveness of this process is related to exposure time and lamp intensity as well as general water quality parameters. The exposure time is reported as "microwatt-seconds per square centimeter" (uwatt-sec/cm^2), and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has established a minimum exposure of 16,000 µwatt-sec/cm^2 for UV disinfection systems. Most manufacturers provide a lamp intensity of 30,000-50,000µwatt-sec/cm^2. In general, coliform bacteria, for example, are destroyed at 7,000 µwatt-sec/cm^2. Since lamp intensity decreases over time with use, lamp replacement and proper pretreatment are key to the success of UV disinfection. In addition, UV systems should be equipped with a warning device to alert the owner when lamp intensity falls below the germicidal range. The following gives the irradiation time required to inactivate completely various microorganisms under 30,000 µwatt-sec/cm^2 dose of UV 254 nm

Used alone, UV radiation does not improve the taste, odor, or clarity of water. UV light is a very effective disinfectant, although the disinfection can only occur inside the unit. There is no residual disinfection in the water to inactivate bacteria that may survive or may be introduced after the water passes by the light source. The percentage of microorganisms destroyed depends on the intensity of the UV light, the contact time, raw water quality, and proper maintenance of the equipment. If material builds up on the glass sleeve or the particle load is high, the light intensity and the effectiveness of treatment are reduced. At sufficiently high doses, all waterborne enteric pathogens are inactivated by UV radiation. The general order of microbial resistance (from least to most) and corresponding UV doses for extensive (>99.9%) inactivation are: vegetative bacteria and the protozoan parasites Cryptosporidium parvum and Giardia lamblia at low doses (1-10 mJ/cm2) and enteric viruses and bacterial spores at high doses (30-150 mJ/cm2). Most low-pressure mercury lamp UV disinfection systems can readily achieve UV radiation doses of 50-150 mJ/cm2 in high quality water, and therefore efficiently disinfect essentially all waterborne pathogens. However, dissolved organic matter, such as natural organic matter, certain inorganic solutes, such as iron, sulfites and nitrites, and suspended matter (particulates or turbidity) will absorb UV radiation or shield microbes from UV radiation, resulting in lower delivered UV doses and reduced microbial disinfection. Another concern about disinfecting microbes with lower doses of UV radiation is the ability of bacteria and other cellular microbes to repair UV-induced damage and restore infectivity, a phenomenon known as reactivation.

UV inactivates microbes primarily by chemically altering nucleic acids. However, the UV-induced chemical lesions can be repaired by cellular enzymatic mechanisms, some of which are independent of light (dark repair) and others of which require visible light (photorepair or photoreactivation). Therefore, achieving optimum UV disinfection of water requires delivering a sufficient UV dose to induce greater levels of nucleic acid damage and thereby overcome or overwhelm DNA repair mechanisms.
Table 1. Estimated Irradiation Time to
Inactivate Microorganisms at a
Dosage of 30,000 µwatt-sec/cm^2 of UV 254 nm



Name 100% lethal Dosage
(Second) Name 100% lethal Dosage
(Second)
Bacteria
Dysentery bacilli 0.15 Micrococcus Candidus 0.4 ¨C 1.53
Leptospira SPP 0.2 Salmonella Paratyphi 0.41
Legionella Pneumophila 0.2 Mycobacterium Tuberculosis 0.41
Corynebacterium Diphtheriae 0.25 Streptococcus Haemolyticus 0.45
Shigella Dysenteriae 0.28 Salmonella Enteritidis 0.51
Bacillus Anthracis 0.3 Salmonella Typhimurium 0.53
Clostridium Tetani 0.33 Vibrio Cholerae 0.64
Escherichia coli 0.36 Clostridium Tetani 0.8
Pseudomonas Aeruginosa 0.37 Staphylococcus Albus 1.23
Virus
Coxsackie Virus A9 0.08 Echovirus 1 0.73
Adenovirus 3 0.1 Hepatitis B Virus 0.73
Bacteiophage 0.2 Echovirus 11 0.75
Influenza 0.23 Poliovirus 1 0.8
Rotavirus SA 11 0.52 Tobacco Mosaic 16
Mold Spores
Mucor Mucedo 0.23 ¨C 4.67 Penicillium Roqueforti 0.87 - 2.93
Oospara Lactis 0.33 Penicillium Chrysogenum 2.0 ¨C 3.33
Aspergillus Amstelodami 0.73 ¨C 8.80 Aspergillus Niger 6.67
Penicillium Digitatum 0.87 Manure Fungi 8
Algae
Chlorella Vulgaris 0.93 Protozoa 4 - 6.70
Green Algae 1.22 Paramecium 7.3
Nematode Eggs 3.4 Blue-Green Algae 10 ¨C 40

Inactivation Doses for Giardia and Cryptosporidium
UV dose is a product of UV light intensity and exposure time in seconds (IT), stated in units; mWs/cm2 or mJ/cm2. IT is analogous to the chemical dose or CT (concentration x time). Microbes show a range of sensitivities to UV as shown by the UV data. Cryptosporidium and Giardia are more sensitive to UV than bacteria and viruses are more resistant than bacteria. Similar results have been obtained using low-pressure, medium-pressure and pulsed UV irradiation- Look for a Class A UV disinfection system. UV dose required for a 4log inactivation of selected waterborne pathogens.
Table 2 .
UV Dose 4 log Inactivation


Pathogen UV dose mJcm/2
4log inactivation
Cryptosporidium parvum oocysts <10
Giardia lamblia cysts <10
Vibrio cholerae 2.9
Salmonella typhi 8.2
Shigella sonnei 8.2
Hepatitis A virus 30
Poliovirus Type 1 30
Rotavirus SA11 36 Source: http://www.trojanuvmax.com

UV Irradiation Pretreatment
Either sediment filtration or activated carbon filtration should take place before water passes through the unit. Particulate matter, color, and turbidity affect the transmission of light to the microorganisms and must be removed for successful disinfection.

Table 3. Recommended maximum contaminant
levels in water entering a UV treatment device.


Turbidity 5 FTU or 5 NTU
Suspended solids
(5 to 10 micron prefiltration recommended) < 10 mg/L
Color None
Iron < 0.3 mg/L
Manganese < 0.05 mg/L
pH 6.5-9.5

UV is often the last device in a treatment train (a series of treatment devices), following reverse osmosis, water softening, or filtration. The UV unit should be located as close as possible to the point-of-use since any part of the plumbing system could be contaminated with bacteria. It is recommended that the entire plumbing system be disinfected with chlorine prior to initial use of a UV system.

Types of UV Disinfection Devices

The typical UV treatment device consists, of a cylindrical chamber housing the UV bulb along its central axis. A quartz glass sleeve encases the bulb; water flow is parallel to the bulb, which requires electrical power. A flow control device prevents the water from passing too quickly past the bulb, assuring appropriate radiation contact time with the flowing water. It has been reported that turbulent (agitated) water flow provides more complete exposure of the organism to UV radiation.

A UV system housing should be of stainless steel to protect any electronic parts from corrosion. To assure they will be contaminant-free, all welds in the system should be plasma-fused and purged with argon gas. The major differences in UV treatment units are in capacity and optional features. Some are equipped with UV emission detectors that warn the user when the unit needs cleaning or when the light source is failing. This feature is extremely important to assurance of a safe water supply. A detector that emits a sound or shuts off the water flow is preferable to a warning light, especially if the system might be located where a warning light would not be noticed immediately.

Maintenance of a UV System

Since UV radiation must reach the bacteria to inactivate them, the housing for the light source must be kept clean. Commercial products are available for rinsing the unit to remove any film on the light source. An overnight cleaning with a solution of 0.15 percent sodium hydrosulfite or citric acid effectively removes such films. Some units have wipers to aid the cleaning process.

UV systems are designed for continuous operation and should be shut down only if treatment is not needed for several days. A few minutes for lamp warm-up is needed before the system is used again following shut-down. In addition, the plumbing system of the house should be thoroughly flushed following a period of no use. Whenever the system is serviced, the entire plumbing system should be disinfected with a chemical such as chlorine prior to relying on the UV system for disinfection.

UV lights gradually lose effectiveness with use, the lamp should be cleaned on a regular basis and replaced at least once a year. It is not uncommon for a new lamp to lose 20 percent of its intensity within the first 100 hours of operation, although that level is maintained for the next several thousand hours. As stated previously, units equipped with properly calibrated UV emission detectors alert the owner when the light intensity falls below a certain level.

The treated water should be monitored for coliform and heterotrophic bacteria on a monthly basis for at least the first 6 months of the device’s use. If these organisms are present in the treated water, the lamp intensity should be checked, and the entire plumbing system should be disinfected with a chemical such as chlorine.

Quick Facts about UV Water Treatment


1. UV disinfection does not add chemicals to the water.
2. UV is effective against bacteria and viruses; and may be effective against Giardia lamblia or Cryptosporidium if the system custom designed to meet these disinfection requirements.
3. UV disinfection has no residual disinfection.
4. Minimum lamp exposure of 16,000 µwatt-sec / cm^2 .
5. UV often last device in a treatment train of water treatment devices.
6. UV device should have audible UV emission detector to notify user when lamp intensity is inadequate.
7. Regular maintenance and lamp replacement is essential.

Capacity of UV Disinfection Systems

UV is an in-line, point-of-entry system that treats all the water used in the house. The capacities range from 0.5 gallons per minute (gpm) to several hundred gpm. Since bacteria may be shielded by particles in the water, pretreatment to remove turbidity may be required. There is also a limit to the number of bacteria that can be treated. An upper limit for UV disinfection is 1,000 total coliform/100 mL water or 100 fecal coliform/100 mL.
Special Considerations

Prefiltration is required to remove color, turbidity, and particles that shield microorganisms from the UV source. Water that contains high mineral levels can coat the lamp sleeve and reduce the treatment effectiveness. Therefore, pretreatment with a water softener or phosphate injection system may be necessary to prevent build-up of minerals on the lamp. Table 3 lists the maximum levels of certain contaminants that are allowable for effective UV treatment.
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Old 23-04-2019, 11:26   #28
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Re: Back up portable water filter

You answered your own question.. its a combination of exposure time+exposure dose. So less time if the dose is higher.

0.016 watts of UV per second per square centimeter. So if you have a 10" x 3" tube you would need 3.7 watts of UV over the 1 second the water passes through... (forget that its a tube and not a flat surface), which is in line with most of the lamps that are 10-13 watts.
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Old 23-04-2019, 11:44   #29
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Re: Back up portable water filter

[QUOTE=zboss;2876061]You answered your own question.. its a combination of exposure time+exposure dose. So less time if the dose is higher.

0.016 watts of UV per second per square centimeter. So if you have a 10" x 3" tube you would need 3.7 watts of UV over the 1 second the water passes through... (forget that its a tube and not a flat surface), which is in line with most of the lamps that are 10-13 watts.[/QUOTE


Most UV bulbs only emit 10-25% of their energy in the UV. Thus, a 15-35 W bulb would be required. This assumes everything is clean, which it won't be for very long, and that there are no particles over about 20 microns.


It doesn't do much good to UV treat filling the tank; it can easily re-infect.


Finally, UV bulbs generally require a warm up period, which from a practical perspective means leaving them on, which is not practical.
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Old 03-05-2019, 08:43   #30
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Re: Back up portable water filter

Lots of good choices at the camping equipment stores. I carry a Katadyn unit that is a bag that hangs to filter up to a few gallons at a time using gravity. Platypus also has a few . I have used it to turn questionable dock water into drinking water. There are also hand pump units but I like gravity. Never ran out of gravity yet!
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