Are live-aboard's really treated this way?

[Tom Bates]

I live on my 40 ft. trawler style boat around Vancouver Island at various marinas for over twenty five years . Always charged more for living aboard. I do not mind paying a bit more for hydro, but not extra fees. In fact liveaboards should be a little cheaper due to them being there for security etc. Must be a vessel that moves thou.

[Ardbeg]

What is the min depth. Can sailboats get in there? Thanks

[lvictorlucas]

Florida has a real problem with reasonable cost live aboard slips due to several factors. A few years ago the state of Fl did a land grab where they tried to confiscate all the slips they could. The owner had the choice of hiring an attorney and providing a paper trail back to a Spanish land grant or giving the property to the state. Obviously the state ran the bill up as high as they could and only wealthy owners could fight. The owners usually won but at a great cost forcing up privately owned slip prices. Next the state forced all renters of state owned live aboard slips and privately owned live aboard slips to install an expensive "approved" sewer system at their cost further reducing available slips. All grandfathering was removed and portables, composting heads and holding tanks were disqualified. The hurricanes further reduced the supply of slips by requiring an extensive permitting process for repairs. The result is a shortage of overpriced live aboard slips with no end in sight unless the live aboard has a lot of money.

[SaltyMetals]

Charging for being onboard is unusual in Europe (UK, Atlantic ports & Med) although i have come across two on E coast of Italy : Caterina/Vieste who charges extra €10/day if you are onboard plus extra for water & electr and the Lega Navale in Trani which is most civilised (if they have space) and w&e are free, as well as the fact that you can do the checkin/checkout at Trani. A charming police lady actually came to see me in the marina. .. For both these the mooring fee is lower than others but if you are on board 1/2 of the time it ends up being v similar to the other marinas in the Adriatic.
Andrew

[first wind]

Despite what some people have said, I can say it has nothing to do with how you present yourself. My vessel is always ship shape and Bristol fashion and I don’t disturb anyone. I’m very respectful and friendly and even shovel snow from my entire pier; not just out to my boat.

Yet, there are few live aboard marinas. Most marinas that will allow love a oards tend to charge extra for it; sometimes to an extreme level ( knowing few would pay that much ).

These marinas don’t mind loud drunken power payers that disturb everyone as long as they are only aboard for the weekend.

And, without even having the chance to get to know you or find out who you are, if you stop into a marina, nicely dressed and politely behaved, and ask about slip fees and want to look around, they are pleasant and happy to oblige...until you ask if they allow living aboard.

At that point, you might as well have asked if having their teenage daughters come over and give you oral sex is a benefit that comes with your slip. Suddenly, they are very uninterested in even speaking tonyou ebough to let you know they don’t accept live sbostds or that there is an additional fee.

I’m living in philly, now, and my boat is berthed in glen burnie, md. I was a sneak aboard at my marina because, although I’d been there for a few years and everyone knew me, they don’t allow live aboard in any way. And, pretty much, it’s that way all around the Baltimore area from the top of the bay to at least Annapolis. I found one live aboard marina, in middle river, but, that’s it and I’m waiting for them to have a live aboard vacancy.

You’d think they would like the guaranteed income. If your boat is your home you’re a bit less likely to just walk off and abandon it. And, as far as bad live aboard, you can evict when people violate the rules; just like an apartment complex. It’s no different. But, they don’t see it that way.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

Here is an extreme example of why we are sometimes treated as you describe...

I took this photo last summer at a marina in Alaska.

This vessel prompted some new local rules and regulations.

It is up to the rest of us to be exemplary...

Cheers! Bill

Nice photo! Is that a boat there or a house trailer?

[first wind]

Originally Posted by lvictorlucas

Florida has a real problem with reasonable cost live aboard slips due to several factors. A few years ago the state of Fl did a land grab where they tried to confiscate all the slips they could. The owner had the choice of hiring an attorney and providing a paper trail back to a Spanish land grant or giving the property to the state. Obviously the state ran the bill up as high as they could and only wealthy owners could fight. The owners usually won but at a great cost forcing up privately owned slip prices. Next the state forced all renters of state owned live aboard slips and privately owned live aboard slips to install an expensive "approved" sewer system at their cost further reducing available slips. All grandfathering was removed and portables, composting heads and holding tanks were disqualified. The hurricanes further reduced the supply of slips by requiring an extensive permitting process for repairs. The result is a shortage of overpriced live aboard slips with no end in sight unless the live aboard has a lot of money.

Government greed. You have to love it.

[first wind]

In the name of total honesty, philly does have a live aboard marina. However, after checking around, I don’t know what the use is. Water depths are very low, here, and you basically have to come and go with high tide or you’re screwed. I don’t know about anyone else here but, I don’t think my work would understand if I call out because I’m waiting for the tide to come back in. I guess that would be fine if you were well to do enough not to have to work at all but, for the rest of us it’s not so good. So, now I’m just biding my time til I can get situated and move back to Maryland.

I miss real water, up here. You don’t realize how wonderful the bay is until you can’t wake up and watch the sun rise over it before leaving for work.

[Skip A]

I guess we are just lucky in Brunswick, GA. Besides the great treatment from our marina staff (Brunswick Landing Marina, https://brunswicklandingmarina.com/ ) we have three lounge areas with cable TV, two nice laundry rooms, bath houses with multiple showers, a boatyard with lift, free beer and wine during "Happy Hour" at the Yacht Club, plus a bunch of other great live-aboards to associate with.

Not only is the marina great, the town of Brunswick welcomes boaters with food discounts, a farmers' market next to the marina, and a monthly "Old Town" open house for the establishments downtown, with many offering free wine and snacks. We aren't considered "Sailor Park Trash", we're treated like residents of Brunswick, GA, because we are.

I don't work for, nor am I a paid spokesman for the marina.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by astokel

From my experience the liveaboards;

• Seem to think the entire dock belongs to them and will place their possessions blocking access to my boat
• Play loud music late at night
• Appear to drink way too much
• Fail to follow marina rules (no swimming from docks, no fishing)
• Become abusive when politely asked to refrain from the above

I actually had to get a peace bond (restraining order) against one who insisted on loudly verbally abusing me so I can see how some marinas may not encourage these people.

You get that with non live sbosrds, too. I like my peace and quiet but, the two slips near me are occupied by power boaters. They are not live aboards and old enough to be my parents but, they party from early morning til the wee hours of the night. Drunk and obnoxious; loud music and pissing off the dock. And if it’s raining they put a low rent over the dock ( they always set out lawn chairs and take the entire dock up ) and then you have to duck low to try to walk under to get to your boat and out of the rain. They make it damn near impossible to sleep when it’s hot out because it’s not like you can close your boat up to shut out some of the drunken yelling and loud music.

There is a power boat at the next dock that loves to play super loud music all weekend, too, but, they are a few boat lengths away so not as bad.

There are inconsiderate buttholes in every group.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Skip A

I guess we are just lucky in Brunswick, GA. Besides the great treatment from our marina staff (Brunswick Landing Marina, https://brunswicklandingmarina.com/ ) we have three lounge areas with cable TV, two nice laundry rooms, bath houses with multiple showers, a boatyard with lift, free beer and wine during "Happy Hour" at the Yacht Club, plus a bunch of other great live-aboards to associate with.

Not only is the marina great, the town of Brunswick welcomes boaters with food discounts, a farmers' market next to the marina, and a monthly "Old Town" open house for the establishments downtown, with many offering free wine and snacks. We aren't considered "Sailor Park Trash", we're treated like residents of Brunswick, GA, because we are.

I don't work for, nor am I a paid spokesman for the marina.

Hmmmm maybe I need to change my sailing grounds.. that sounds like an awesome place.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by first wind

You get that with non live sbosrds, too. I like my peace and quiet but, the two slips near me are occupied by power boaters. They are not live aboards and old enough to be my parents but, they party from early morning til the wee hours of the night. Drunk and obnoxious; loud music and pissing off the dock. And if it’s raining they put a low rent over the dock ( they always set out lawn chairs and take the entire dock up ) and then you have to duck low to try to walk under to get to your boat and out of the rain. They make it damn near impossible to sleep when it’s hot out because it’s not like you can close your boat up to shut out some of the drunken yelling and loud music.

There is a power boat at the next dock that loves to play super loud music all weekend, too, but, they are a few boat lengths away so not as bad.

There are inconsiderate buttholes in every group.

I'm noticing how you're slowly taking over this thread with multiple defensive posts, which illustrates very nicely to the masses why liveaboards aren't welcome in many marinas. They (but not all) begin thinking of the place (marina) as their own personal property and treating the weekenders as outsiders. The dock and boat deck becomes their personal backyard and a place to store junk, next thing you know tomato plants are being cultivated in the cockpit, their dog is pooping on the dock, and the boat becomes an eyesore.

It's no surprise marinas want to discourage liveaboards.

The live aboard guy next to me in his 40 year old junk heap in Long Beach was all bend out of shape when he got evicted after his German Shepard bit three people who were just trying to get to their boats. A tow boat had to remove his wreck because it didn't have a working engine.

[oldjags]

We spent the month of September up in the PNW looking at slips and marinas. Someone at the Seattle Boat Show told us that liveaboards are restricted by law to something like 10-15% of the total number of slips. So the marinas can probably get fined if they have too many liveaboards.

Still, some marinas are better than others. One told us that as long as we maintained a low profile and minded our own business, they would look the other way and not notice that we had spent too many nights on board and were now liveaboards.

[boat driver]

It takes one bad live aboard experience for a marina to go anti-live aboard. The vessel arrives, it begins to grow house appendages, then it sinks.....with no insurance.
In the north the winter tends to separate the die hard. In the north the marina is obligated to keep heads and support open in freezing conditions, which costs more than the income from a non-winterized vessel. In the south, the live aboard tends to be someone avoiding something (like taxes, work, society, free loader, ) so they negatives tend to outweigh the positives. Many places have regulations in place that prohibit everything, but permit case by case waivers. This then gives the ability to legally decline service.
Additionally, the issue becomes problematic because the local taxes are not always the same for a vessel as a house or apartment. In many places the additional charge is incurred not by the marina but the county. Other places the county zoning prohibits year round live aboard residents because the marina facilities are limited. In Florida many municipalities require a vessel to be operational under its own power (ie registered) which is why houseboats have outboards on the stern. If negative problems occur with the slip holder, the county can demand the vessel demonstrate its ability to get underway.
I have rarely seen a problem with a well kept vessel wanting an annual slip , particularly one with a Captain who lives on the vessel.
May I suggest that when looking at a marina, particularity over the internet, send a picture of your vessel when inquiring about utilizing it for lengthy time. You might discover that the various above mentions are not entirely the marina's doing.
Florida in particular has a huge issue with hobo boats- live aboard that pay zero taxes, do not utilize holding tanks, do not have insurance, and are unsightly. When weather arrives, the vessels are abandon and the state (surrounding landowners) get stuck with the expense cleanup. The result is laws that deny first and waive later case by case.
Personal experience up and down the US coast and Gulf of Mexico- I have tied up to municipal piers with intent to depart as per the rules- and ended with the authorities stopping by welcoming the vessel and inviting it stay for a longer period of time.
Its all on the first impression.

[Sailor647]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Much of it does depend on how one presents themselves and the boat. When I was living aboard for four months of the year in Shoreline Village, Long Beach, CA eight years ago, you could really tell who most of the liveaboards were by all the junk on deck and the parked, beat up old vans filled with junk in the parking lot. Who wants to look at that all the time?

Still, there were some like us in our Hunter at the time, nobody would've known the difference. No junk on deck, no car filled with junk in the parking lot over night... just another boat. The marina isn't afraid of people living aboard in well-kept boats, they're afraid of having to go through the trouble to evict bums on boats and/or dealing with abandoned junk boats without working engines.

Well said. This has been our experience as well.