Are live-aboard's really treated this way?

[Bawlmer]

Originally Posted by MrWesson

There's a clearly marked channel through the river over 12' at all times. I'd say the average is around 17'.

The approach starts about 3 miles from the mouth of the river(center and furthest point down in the picture). I would never attempt to cross the flats even at high tide and I only draft 3'.

I made that run many times coming from Shell Point and docking at the old Posey's for lunch until whenever. It's nice to hear Shield's is still a going concern. A lot of really nice places have been lost to hurricanes and the bubble in the last 15 years. Thanks for the nostalgia rush.

[storx]

I had an interesting conversation with someone, he was saying just get a slip without telling them your living aboard, because most marinas state you can't sleep OVERNIGHT more than 3-4 days a week, since im a day sleeper and would be coming to the boat during the morning hours and leaving in the evening before it turns dark, i would look as someone who hangs out on their boat daily during the day.

This is interesting as i have read the rules of a few marinas in the area and very much they state sleeping overnight as the verbiage for the rules.

[Wind Souls]

Mr. Wesson
"My marina in N-FL seems to love liveaboards(Shields marina in St Marks"

I just looked up the Shields Marina in N-FL and it is listed as a non-liveaboard marina.
Too bad, I was hoping it was.
Also wonder how it has survived past hurricanes.
I hope this helps.


True sailors never stop sailing, they just continue to sail from their Bay of Experience to their Sea of Dreams.

[cs2340]

rockport texas here. our nav district which runs the main harbors in the county has switched to no new liveaboards. over the years there has been a minority segment of the liveaboard population that caused issues. i talked with a lot of those "minority" folks over the last few years and told them this was coming because of the way the were acting. deaf ears. so it sucks now. no new liveaboards.

[Whisper Cappy]

A few spoil it for the rest. My parents lived aboard for 8 years and my wife and I for 2 years in Florida. Like others posted just keep it together; do not look like a live-aboard. You could not tell the difference between our boats and the non live-aboards. It is quite simple. The extra money a marina may make is not worth the hassle of a sloppy live-aboard. The permanent vans and cars used as storage sheds are a eye sore. You cannot blame people for having an opinion about sailors, which we are... There are 10 derelict boats in the favorite anchorage for Tampa Bay boaters and they are all sailboats... Bottom line: Look like a boater, act like a boater.

[foreverfreedom]

Ten years ago I was in a southern Turkish marina, planning my cruise round to the Black Sea. I was quizzing a guy who project managed the development of four large Turkish marinas.
I asked him what were the best marinas en-route; he laughed and said that from his perspective the best marina was one where all berths were full with boats which never left their berth, and where all boats employed a full-time Captain. The reasons for these conditions were that boats which were never used made little demands on marina facilities, hence fewer complaints, and that full-time employed Captains rarely got their hands dirty and nearly always employed the marina technical facilities for everything.

[Carver Power]

Yes, marinas do act that way!
We have lived aboard for 10 years, My advice is to never talk to anyone except the dockmaster, Do not call show up in person well dressed. Always have photos of the boat.
We keep our boat waxed washed and in tip-top shape We also sail weekly in our local waters. Our marina is one of the most desired in San Diego and has more liveaboards than most. We refuse to allow any snobbish attitudes on our docks!!

[SCarns]

Great thread!

I concur about the boat being in ship shape. A few years ago, I moved my boat the Marina Del Rey, CA, as my kid wanted to be closer to the beach. It was a 4 hour commute for me, so we went to the "low-rent" marina to save money, as I didn't need facilities, just a safe place to keep the boat. They had a lot of liveaboards there, but weren't all that excited to talk to me about anything. They had a slip and I went through the "process." I sent over a photo of my boat, a Westsail 32 - freshly painted. The marina manager called me and offered a better slip out on the end of the pier and let me know if I wanted to liveaboard, he could make it happen!

Goes back to that whole thing... What is the marina getting by offering any sailor a liveaboard? Derlicts? Problems? I am now in a liveaboard situation (not in MDR), and I love it. The marina managers are also liveaboards on they invited us onto their dock, which is apparently quite a privilege according to our neighbors. I respect that and maintain my vessel, keep a low profile, help clean up, and just be a good person in general. I try hard to set a good example. So far, so good.

[TigerPaws]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

"Live aboard" means very different things, to different people.

For some people, it means being a boat bum -- a person who lives on a boat because he's lost his land housing. The boat is just one step away from being under a bridge. And the boat looks like that, and might even be unseaworthy or even incapable of movement.

Who wants that in his marina? I wouldn't. So you have to understand the caution of marina owners about "living aboard". If you're like SailorBoy, not "living aboard", but cruising full time, and moving slowly from place to place in a seaworthy and neatly kept vessel, then you're likely to be welcome everywhere.

Not necessarily true, I have lived aboard for many years now, I cruse from place to place staying as long as I want then I move on. Maybe I come back, maybe not.

A liveaboard is a very broad term, not all of us are homeless, some of us choose to live on our boats because we like it.

[Montanan]

Some well designed marinas have the infrastructure to support liveaboard vessels, such as having pumpouts at each and every one of the slips on the docks so as to not need to move the boat to a central pump out. And of course it is grand to have high speed DSL, Cable for television, landline telephone, separately metered power and potable water at each slip.

Backgrounder as to the Fair Housing Laws that may apply:

Reference link: https://www.thelog.com/ask-the-attor...arina-tenancy/

Snipets therefrom:

There is "a misunderstanding of the nature of a marina tenancy. The bottom line is that a marina tenant, even a liveaboard tenant, is not renting a home. He or she is simply renting a parking space for a home that they already own.

The California Fair Employment & Housing Act extends its protections (pursuant to Cal. Government Code sec. 12927) to people who live in “Housing Accommodations.” A Housing Accommodation is defined as “any building, structure, or portion thereof that is occupied as, or intended for occupancy as, a residence . . .” Notably, the federal Fair Housing Act (pursuant to its definition of “dwelling” in 42 U.S. Code sec. §3602) uses the same definition to describe the scope of its protection.

State and federal fair housing laws prohibit discrimination in housing for various reasons, but as noted above, a tenant must be living in a building or structure to be protected under those laws. Various court decisions have included boats within the definition of a building or structure, so if our reader lived aboard a rented boat he may in fact be protected by fair housing laws. But he is not living aboard a rented boat and that is not the typical scenario we face with a marina eviction.

Liveaboard marina tenants usually own their boat and as such they own the “structure” in which they are living. Since a marina tenancy concerns a parking space rather than a dwelling, boat owners are not protected by federal or state fair housing laws, regardless of whether federal maritime law applies to the tenancy.

The only real protections available to marina tenants in California are found under two very narrow legal concepts. The first is California’s Floating Home Residency Law. This law does offer some tenant protections, but only if the boat qualifies as a Floating Home under the definitions set forth in the law. Among other very strict requirements, a “Floating Home” must have a permanent shoreside sewer connection and continuous water and power service. This means that it must have sewer pipes and permanent electrical power with a meter rather than hoses and a plug-in shorepower cord.

The only remaining area of protection for boat is the prohibition against retaliatory eviction, which exists for any rental arrangement. A marina may not evict a tenant solely in retaliation for the tenant’s exercise of a legal right. We occasionally see this sort of thing where a tenant complains to the police or other legal authority that a marina operator is participating in some form of illegal activity and the marina responds by evicting the tenant. But this is extremely rare.

At the risk of sounding unsympathetic to our reader and others in the same situation, and with all due respect to the attorneys who specialize in landlord — tenant law on dry land, state and federal law assume that people who live aboard a boat do so as a matter of choice rather than necessity. As such, liveaboards are not afforded the same protections as people who live in more traditional spaces. With that said, no two cases are the same, and anyone who is facing eviction should seek independent legal advice."

In California the State limits marinas to 10% liveaboard occupancy with liveaboard being staying on board more than 3 days in a week. Not all marinas permit liveaboard or even extended stay [extended stay being some time period less than the State restriction of three days a week, e.g., one or no overnight stays]. Many of the marinas that allow liveaboard status require the boat to be of a minimum LWL, e.g., 35 - 40+ feet, and will require survey, insurance, and covenants as to functionality, appearance and stowage, etc. so as to regulate the tenancy standards. There are fees above the standard rental fee for the slip for either liveaboard or for extended stay arrangements.

I know of one owner who rents berths at two marinas and splits his time between them, up to 3 nights at one and up to 3 nights at the other and then chooses to anchor out in a cove for at least an overnight at a day of convenience. He keeps to the tenancy limit carefully so as to not avail an opportunity for eviction, but also does maintain good relations with the harbor master and staff and his fellow boaters, lending hands, such as when a storm passes, he aids in adjusting or replacing lines to unattended boats. And he uses the technical services and chandlery of the marinas, instead of third party service providers and purveyors so as to be a good business client.

[ninethlife]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

It would help to know where you're located. But no, I get just the opposite attitude and treatment when I live aboard for two months of the year in a beautiful marina in Italy near Venice for only $300 per month.

Much of it does depend on how one presents themselves and the boat. When I was living aboard for four months of the year in Shoreline Village, Long Beach, CA eight years ago, you could really tell who most of the liveaboards were by all the junk on deck and the parked, beat up old vans filled with junk in the parking lot. Who wants to look at that all the time?

Still, there were some like us in our Hunter at the time, nobody would've known the difference. No junk on deck, no car filled with junk in the parking lot over night... just another boat. The marina isn't afraid of people living aboard in well-kept boats, they're afraid of having to go through the trouble to evict bums on boats and/or dealing with abandoned junk boats without working engines.

Hey,....I've been a 'bum on a boat' most of my adult life......

[SUNCAT365]

In areas where the cost of living is high, many people move onto boats just to live less expensively. Their boats never move and aren't maintained well. The marina turns into an aquatic trailer park. The rich yachties get offended and want these eyesores removed. In reality so do the responsible live a boards. The well to do, and even management, can't, or won't, tell the difference between the boaters who live on board and the aquatic trailer dwellers and everyone gets the boot.

The reality is that the active boaters who live on board are an asset to the marina and the others are less so. I've personally spotted more than a few sinking boats, crimes in progress, and other issues, over the decades.

Where we live (in FL) there is only one marina left that allows live a boards. They do not discriminate. Drugs, heavy drinking, drama, poorly maintained boats, and dock-junk, are more common than not. Rates are through the roof.

[GrowleyMonster]

Wow, Brunswick sounds nice indeed. Not too bad in New Orleans, though. My marina has no limit on number of liveaboards, and no extra fees for liveaboards. There are a few extra requirements though... must go to pumpout station at least once a month even if you aren't full. Must have head inspected and found in working order, though I think you can sign an affidavit saying you will only use the shoreside facilities. Otherwise same conditions as everyone else. Liveaboards are valued as extra eyes who actually know something about their neighbors' boats, instead of $10/hr rentacops who seldom stay at their post the whole shift and pretty much never stay awake and know nothing about boats at all. Liveaboards have saved more than a few boats. Even during named storms, there are usually a couple or few diehards who choose to tough it out, who go around slacking lines and stuff for their neighbors. Maybe part of it is there is more of a tradition of living aboard in South Louisiana than in other places.



Currently I live ashore but until recently I lived aboard and I could well find myself living aboard again some day. I would hate to be in a place where this is not allowed.

[PirateBarnabus]

The other way they discourage liveaboards is to make the elec and water charges unfeasibly high.
To me 50 cents a KWH is way too high when we need to use air-conditioning.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by PirateBarnabus

The other way they discourage liveaboards is to make the elec and water charges unfeasibly high.
To me 50 cents a KWH is way too high when we need to use air-conditioning.

Most of the marinas I have been associated with charge only for what the utility charges, some have a modest administrative fee in addition to the utility charge. Not all marinas have independent metering for each slip. Some of the marinas have independent metering of each shore power with some of those independent meters being direct from the utility, others have independent metering but the meters are behind the main meter of the utility such that the marina then charges the independent metered slip, instead of the utility directly.

When walking the docks I have seen boats use shore power stations other than the shorepower station associated with their slip, not sure if it was do to confusion, a broken shore power station at the slip, or they were bumming power from the neighbors billing.