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Old 08-05-2018, 20:35   #61
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
I reckon you are thinking long distance boating.
Not at all, 50 mile days and anchor at days end,.


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I sail locally usually within 100 miles of my marina from one side of the bay to the other and sometimes a long tack out into the Atlantic on the first leg north (or returning South) which means raising and lowering the mainsail each day, multiple tacks handling the sheets mainly free hand, anchoring without a windlass, putting the kayak overboard to row to shore,
Then hiking, climbing cliffs, or taking a short 1-2 mile run in hiking boats then returning to the boat rowing the kayak, reloading the 16'6"kayak manually.....also don't forget dealing with the outboard which is mounted on a bracket on the lower stern of my boat (squatting on the aft lazarette to raise, lower, steer, plus fueling)
That's you.
Here most people choose a destination based on wind angle for reach out reach back if doing a day trip.
If travelling the coast doing 50 mile hops they go with the wind one direction and a few months later when the wind changes they come with the wind in the opposite direction.

Most liveaboards I know have boats 40ft plus
They have decent anchoring gear requiring a windlass
They carry decent dingies more often than not,inflatables that don't row well if at all and carry the dinghy on davits with the outboard in place.

We still have to lug fuel like anyone else and of course when ashore they hike, fish etc just like you do
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:44   #62
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

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Not at all, 50 mile days and anchor at days end,.



That's you.
Here most people choose a destination based on wind angle for reach out reach back if doing a day trip.
If travelling the coast doing 50 mile hops they go with the wind one direction and a few months later when the wind changes they come with the wind in the opposite direction.

Most liveaboards I know have boats 40ft plus
They have decent anchoring gear requiring a windlass
They carry decent dingies more often than not,inflatables that don't row well if at all and carry the dinghy on davits with the outboard in place.

We still have to lug fuel like anyone else and of course when ashore they hike, fish etc just like you do
That is how I do it and why I chose a smaller boat, test boat.

This is my first monohull. The first boat I owned with electronics.....depth, GPS, autopilot or even a radio all the others were small power boats or beach cats that I raced so I'm used to getting to my destination fast.

I must say the small power boats were nice for coming back through the inlets from the ocean. You just pick a wave and ride it in/thru. This is the inlet we had to get thru as teenagers and it could get interesting: https://va.usharbors.com/explore/har...etompkin-inlet

Even the yearly 100 mile Round The Island Race out of Ft Walton Beach FL could be completed in 12 hours on a 20' Beach Cat if the winds were right. (with a spinnaker even faster)

This slow monohull is a big adjustment.

I will usually sail no more than say 30 miles in a day because it's slow and a bit boring but some days can be very beautiful and peaceful if sailing. I will motor (or motor sail) 20 miles with my 5 hp outboard if I have to get back on a Sunday if there's no wind or the wind is on the nose
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:15   #63
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

What kills me is how underpowered most sailboats are. Many struggle to get to hull speed under calm conditions. Few will achieve it punching into a 20 knot headwind. Builders know this but it's an easy way to save money. Another pet peeve of mine is dodgers & biminis which usually stay up all of the time. Why not offer hard dodgers & biminis that are stronger & last longer?
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:30   #64
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Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

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Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post
What kills me is how underpowered most sailboats are. Many struggle to get to hull speed under calm conditions. Few will achieve it punching into a 20 knot headwind. Builders know this but it's an easy way to save money. Another pet peeve of mine is dodgers & biminis which usually stay up all of the time. Why not offer hard dodgers & biminis that are stronger & last longer?


Older boats like mine, the power thing is true. I think the older boats, the motor really was auxiliary power, now manufacturers seem to realize many motor more than sail.
I see it all the time, the bigger, new boats that go out in the afternoon guests dressed for dinner. You think they are going to sail? Of course not, they are here for a dinner party, not a workout.

Pretty much the same boat as mine, made by the same manufacturer but newer has a much larger engine. If you look, most newer sailboats have bigger engines than their older siblings.
Charging by the HP for an engine is a long established tradition, but itís often just additional profit. The same engine is often offered in different HP and of course they cost the same to manufacture. Iíd bet that the boat manufacturers can hopefully get the same engine at the higher HP level for the same or very close to the same money.

One assumes if the engine manufacturers are smart that the OEM price for their engines is a whole lot less than you and I pay, reasoning is that they sell parts and service for the next 20 yrs on every boat that has their engine in it.

Hard dodgers are in my belief a lot more expensive to manufacture, however as the only time mine ever comes down is for Storms, I would like to have a hard dodger myself.
But it seems all the sailboat sales literature has no Bimini or dodger, tradition maybe?
Guys up North I can see the allure of no Bimini, but down where Iím from you would very quickly cook to death. Kind of like Fl is full of CC power boats, but how many do you see in New England?
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:58   #65
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

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Older boats like mine, the power thing is true. I think the older boats, the motor really was auxiliary power, now manufacturers seem to realize many motor more than sail.
I see it all the time, the bigger, new boats that go out in the afternoon guests dressed for dinner. You think they are going to sail? Of course not, they are here for a dinner party, not a workout.

Pretty much the same boat as mine, made by the same manufacturer but newer has a much larger engine. If you look, most newer sailboats have bigger engines than their older siblings.
Charging by the HP for an engine is a long established tradition, but itís often just additional profit. The same engine is often offered in different HP and of course they cost the same to manufacture. Iíd bet that the boat manufacturers can hopefully get the same engine at the higher HP level for the same or very close to the same money.

One assumes if the engine manufacturers are smart that the OEM price for their engines is a whole lot less than you and I pay, reasoning is that they sell parts and service for the next 20 yrs on every boat that has their engine in it.

Hard dodgers are in my belief a lot more expensive to manufacture, however as the only time mine ever comes down is for Storms, I would like to have a hard dodger myself.
But it seems all the sailboat sales literature has no Bimini or dodger, tradition maybe?
Guys up North I can see the allure of no Bimini, but down where Iím from you would very quickly cook to death. Kind of like Fl is full of CC power boats, but how many do you see in New England?
I agree, biminis are more about sun protection than rain but both are nice. Regarding power, you really don't have to jump up that much for it to be adequate. On repowers I think most would benefit from a larger motor.
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:15   #66
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

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What kills me is how underpowered most sailboats are. Many struggle to get to hull speed under calm conditions. Few will achieve it punching into a 20 knot headwind. Builders know this but it's an easy way to save money. Another pet peeve of mine is dodgers & biminis which usually stay up all of the time. Why not offer hard dodgers & biminis that are stronger & last longer?
It doesn't take much to obtain hull speed in calm conditions. My 5 hp outboard will about do it on my 6600 lb displacement full keel Bristol 27. As it is, it will cruise the boat along at about 5 knots or just above.

In a 20 knot headwind, you sail or motor sail otherwise as others have mentioned, it's time to buy a power boat
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:43   #67
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

Larger motor and higher speed imply higher fuel consumption, that leads to either a smaller range for motoring or larger fuel tanks and more weight, that slows the boat while sailing even further and also requires more engine power for propulsion...

I think, a sailboat is designed to sail and the engine is usually there to enter / leave the port and protected anchorages, where sailing is impossible. The engine must be sufficient to fight the currents and help stay away from a lee shore in some critical weather and also limp home if there are problems with the rigging.

If you really prefer motoring instead of sailing - there are boats around made exactly for this purpose with large engines and fuel tanks.
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:49   #68
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

If you take a 60 something HP four cylinder and compare it to a 40 HP at the same speed, the fuel consumption is nearly identical. Itís only when you use the extra power that the fuel consumption goes up, and like you correctly point out, if you want to keep the range the same, then you need a bigger tank.
A couple of reasons Iíd like a bigger motor. First Iíd like to make close to hull speed (7.5 kts for me) without having to run the snot out of the motor, or when I do get into strong winds off the bow to maintain a decent speed without having to run the snot out of the motor.
Iíd like to never have to exceed 2000 RPM on my 3600 RPM max motor.
If I ever do repower, it will be with a bigger motor
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:06   #69
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

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What kills me is how underpowered most sailboats are. Many struggle to get to hull speed under calm conditions. Few will achieve it punching into a 20 knot headwind. Builders know this but it's an easy way to save money. Another pet peeve of mine is dodgers & biminis which usually stay up all of the time. Why not offer hard dodgers & biminis that are stronger & last longer?
If you are talking 40-50yr old boats, under powered may be true.

Most modern boats easily hit hull speed. On our 95 Gemini, we cut back from a 40hp to a 25hp and could still do hull speed into a 20kt headwind. By the time it gets up to 30kts, yeah, your speed starts dropping off.

Hard covers are great but makes for profit to offer a bimini as an add on.
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:16   #70
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

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No, it's the part where apparently so many don't sail at all or very little. I'm a bit surprised.

I race and sail on superior so I guess, by definition, that does make me a glutton for punishment.

I get on my sailboat specifically to sail. And because I'm in no hurry to be anywhere specific at any particular time. And yes that does mean that sometimes I simply just sit there and drift /float. But that's usually just fine by me.
It's usually racers who seem to struggle with the transition to long term cruising.

When you go out once a week for an hour or two and are trying to prove you are the better sailor than your competitor, it's fun to short tack up a channel or drift while tweaking the sails to make 0.5kts (no I can't really say drifting is fun even in a racing situation).

When you are traveling 5-8 hours several days a week, there is no competitor to beat and you have a destination to get to...it gets old quick. Unless you are a real purist, most quickly get over it and turn on the engine.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:19   #71
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

Out of curiosity, if you are going to motor everywhere, why not just get a trawler? You'll have more living space, and less (rigging, sails) stuff you don't use to take care of.
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:04   #72
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Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

I think only a few motor everywhere, I for instance will sail every chance I get, and then motor sail when the wind drops, motoring is a last resort, however I often find ourselves just motoring when in the ICW, cause sailing opportunities are infrequent.
Boat is a vehicle to me, a means to travel. Iíll sail whenever possible but wonít sit and wait for perfect wind and seas, Iíll motor.

It is different now than it was when we were just sailing on weekends with no destination. Then we went where the wind carried us, adding in a set destination complicates things, adding in an approximate time, further complicates things, add in comfortable sea state even more.
Not often do all of those things align. The only one you can control is time, eventually after sitting at anchor and just waiting, sometimes you say to heck with it and crank the motor and go.
Fuel burn on average sailboat daily is almost irrelevant, motor life if you assume 200 hours a year and a 5,000 life expectancy is 25 yrs.
Why wait maybe for weeks?
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:18   #73
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

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Out of curiosity, if you are going to motor everywhere, why not just get a trawler? You'll have more living space, and less (rigging, sails) stuff you don't use to take care of.
Particularly on the used market, go price up similar size trawlers and sailboats. There are exceptions but trawlers are typically more expensive.

If you don't use the sails, the additional cost of maintaining the sailboat is negligible and easily offset by the cost savings running a smaller engine.

Plus you don't have the temptation to push the lever forward and run at 120-200% of hull speed because the engine won't do it. Most trawlers (even low power single engine models) will easily exceed hull speed.
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:32   #74
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

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It's usually racers who seem to struggle with the transition to long term cruising.

When you go out once a week for an hour or two and are trying to prove you are the better sailor than your competitor, it's fun to short tack up a channel or drift while tweaking the sails to make 0.5kts (no I can't really say drifting is fun even in a racing situation).

When you are traveling 5-8 hours several days a week, there is no competitor to beat and you have a destination to get to...it gets old quick. Unless you are a real purist, most quickly get over it and turn on the engine.
It is a hard transition going from racer to cruiser but turning on the engine doesn't help.

It's still gets boring.......but at least if you are sailing long distance, you still have to maintain a good angle to the wind and plan ahead
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:54   #75
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Re: Anyone live aboard a sailboat and motor everywhere?

There's no difference in boreful between sailing and motoring when out in the open doing a long leg where the course doesn't change for 12+ hours. The only difference is the noise level.
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