Annual costs to consider in my new boat ?

[BigNurse]

Dear all:
I’m planning to buy a new boat this year, a Moody DS 54, and making a budget to take care of how much money I should consider to account to keep the boat in perfect condition.
At the moment, I got info of the marina where I plan to have it docked, for 450€/month (includes unlimited electricity, water and taxes)
Insurance will cost 6600€/year (includes top full insurance, valid for all waters I may travel)
Volvo dealer informed also about the checking and oil change of the engine (a Volvo D3-150 hp) in about 500€/year, and similar amount for the generator (12 kw)
I plan to apply Coppercoat on it, so no need to paint it each year, as less for the initial years coming (they said that....I don’t know if true)
Cleaning the bottom of the boat each year around 900€ (includes the traveller lift, cleaning, and back to water)
I plan to sail during most weekends of the year with my wife, and living onboard for 3 months in summer, mainly around our area in the northwest coast of Spain, maybe next year in Adriatic Sea, but not this first one year.
What other expenses I should consider that I’ve missed?
Some advice or recommendations ?

Thank you in advance

Pedro

[letsgetsailing3]

Probably makes sense to have a maintenance fund for the long term, that you start contributing to now, though I'd guess that initially that expense will be low - mostly just for things that break.

But when you're sailing, things do break. Even on new boats.

[SVHarmonie]

Expenses in keeping a boat are ALWAYS higher than new sailors expect. Especially for a boat that is kept in "perfect" condition.

It is also impossible to make a budget for a single year, since there is no way to know what might need fixing. For one perspective on the costs of owning a boat, read this:

https://fetchinketch.net/boat_though...-should-i-buy/

[BigNurse]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Probably makes sense to have a maintenance fund for the long term, that you start contributing to now, though I'd guess that initially that expense will be low - mostly just for things that break.

But when you're sailing, things do break. Even on new boats.

Thank you very much for the idea. I was planning to save each year the same amount of the insurance (about 6000€/year) in a “non-planned expenses” fund.
However, we’ll sail to relax, not crossing any ocean, nor sailing on hard weather, mostly being anchored in some beautiful beach or other marinas here, so probably we will not force any hardware (which its quite over engineered in this boat), and if something gets damaged, the official warranty of the yard should cover it, as less the first 2 years I hope !
Thank you again and kindest regards from Spain

Pedro

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by BigNurse

Dear all:
I’m planning to buy a new boat this year, a Moody DS 54, and making a budget to take care of how much money I should consider to account to keep the boat in perfect condition.
At the moment, I got info of the marina where I plan to have it docked, for 450€/month (includes unlimited electricity, water and taxes)
Insurance will cost 6600€/year (includes top full insurance, valid for all waters I may travel)
Volvo dealer informed also about the checking and oil change of the engine (a Volvo D3-150 hp) in about 500€/year, and similar amount for the generator (12 kw)
I plan to apply Coppercoat on it, so no need to paint it each year, as less for the initial years coming (they said that....I don’t know if true)
Cleaning the bottom of the boat each year around 900€ (includes the traveller lift, cleaning, and back to water)
I plan to sail during most weekends of the year with my wife, and living onboard for 3 months in summer, mainly around our area in the northwest coast of Spain, maybe next year in Adriatic Sea, but not this first one year.
What other expenses I should consider that I’ve missed?
Some advice or recommendations ?

Thank you in advance

Pedro

Aside from your maintenance budget for which you should do the labor yourself, you might want to consider budgeting for long term replacement items which can be a big hit when it comes time to replace. Standing rigging, every ten years, chain maybe five years, electronics every 15 years running rigging(sheets and halyards) as they chafe and sails, dependent on how much you sail. I've heard that 10% of the value of the boat is a good number for this stuff but I suspect it's highly variable as some boats cost more than others but all this stuffs wears out in a salt water environment no mater how well you care for it.

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by BigNurse

.........What other expenses I should consider that I’ve missed? Some advice or recommendations?

Ditto letsgetsailing3........also include periodic hull waxing and stainless steel polishing, fuel and pumpouts (if you need a service). Be sure to factor canvas, running rigging, sail and battery replacement depending how much you sail and how fast they deteriorate (maybe every 10 years)

[Niall leslie]

A time tested rule of thumb for sailing yachts is for maintenance to allow 10% of the new price per annum, forever. That is for maintenance of the vessel and does not include expenses such as insurance, boat storage on land and afloat etc.
It sounds like a lot but when you start to factor in periodic planned new sails, standing and running rigging, instruments and electrics, engine, upholstery, annual or more frequent complete winch & windlass maintenance etc. over the years is makes complete sense.
In some cases where people are experienced and have tools etc. sweat equity can
help but only where the individuals can do a proper "professional" job in the traditional sense.
Most people just ignore the real costs and their boats deteroriate over time.
Sailing ( properly and reliably ) isn't cheap.
Cheers,
Niall.

[dougweibel]

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

.....also include periodic hull waxing and stainless steel polishing, fuel and pumpouts (if you need a service).

If you really want to keep it in perfect condition you will need to budget for cleaning and polishing. Gelcoat and stainless polish/was maintenance should be budgeted 1-3 times a year depending on location/situation. If you sail on weekends do you plan to wash the boat yourself and cut into your weekend time or hire this out? I have kept my boat in a marina where some owners have the goal of maintaining a boat in "perfect" condition and that seems to entail having a cleaning crew on about weekly trying to keep up with all the cosmetic maintenance.

I'm don't remember there being any exterior wood on a Moody DS 54 but if so you need to budget for its upkeep as well.

[SofiaB]

You didn’t mention costs for all the upgrades! Hand held a, dinghy, extra safety equipment...

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Niall leslie

A time tested rule of thumb for sailing yachts is for maintenance to allow 10% of the new price per annum, forever. That is for maintenance of the vessel and does not include expenses such as insurance, boat storage on land and afloat etc.
It sounds like a lot but when you start to factor in periodic planned new sails, standing and running rigging, instruments and electrics, engine, upholstery, annual or more frequent complete winch & windlass maintenance etc. over the years is makes complete sense.
In some cases where people are experienced and have tools etc. sweat equity can
help but only where the individuals can do a proper "professional" job in the traditional sense.
Most people just ignore the real costs and their boats deteroriate over time.
Sailing ( properly and reliably ) isn't cheap.
Cheers,
Niall.

I always hear the 10% figure, but it has always seemed a bit high to me. I mean, why not just skip the maintenance and buy a new boat in 10 years?

I'd go closer to 5%, and I'm guessing you'll have enough to do any essential equipment replacement, in addition to your known expenses. At a minimum, that amount will mitigate any surprises.

Doesn't include optional things you'll likely decide you want to add to your baby.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by BigNurse

Dear all:
I’m planning to buy a new boat this year, a Moody DS 54, and making a budget to take care of how much money I should consider to account to keep the boat in perfect condition.
At the moment, I got info of the marina where I plan to have it docked, for 450€/month (includes unlimited electricity, water and taxes)
Insurance will cost 6600€/year (includes top full insurance, valid for all waters I may travel)
Volvo dealer informed also about the checking and oil change of the engine (a Volvo D3-150 hp) in about 500€/year, and similar amount for the generator (12 kw)
I plan to apply Coppercoat on it, so no need to paint it each year, as less for the initial years coming (they said that....I don’t know if true)
Cleaning the bottom of the boat each year around 900€ (includes the traveller lift, cleaning, and back to water)
I plan to sail during most weekends of the year with my wife, and living onboard for 3 months in summer, mainly around our area in the northwest coast of Spain, maybe next year in Adriatic Sea, but not this first one year.
What other expenses I should consider that I’ve missed?
Some advice or recommendations ?

Thank you in advance

Pedro

Its important to have a financial plan for your new boat but don't be surprised when you discover it isn't enough.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by MJH

Its important to have a financial plan for your new boat but don't be surprised when you discover it isn't enough.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

Oh yeah, the other answer is "As much as you've got."

[dannc]

The Morgan's Cloud website has a spread sheet for estimating the cost of maintaining a boat. The spreadsheet has some variables you can set depending on your circumstances. The spreadsheet bases maintenance costs mostly on displacement and then uses a variety of other variables, such as miles sailed, how well the boat is kept up, who does the work, the complication of systems, etc, to calculate costs. This seems like a much better approach than the oft quoted 10% rule that I have heard for decades and which does not make any sense to me.

The link might be behind a pay wall but the website is well worth the few dollars it cost per year. There is a wealth of information on the website.

https://www.morganscloud.com/2014/07...ging-sailboat/

Later,
Dan

[barnakiel]

It is as others said: you either keep it ship shape and lose value or else you keep it in decent shape, lose value faster and buy a new one sooner.


It is hard to state definitely if keeping her pristine makes financial sense in respect of resale value.


But it is definitely bad idea to let the boat slip down too much.


In my singular case experience, in the early years, outlay on keeping a new boat in excellent shape is minimal, maybe 5% pa. And she will lose value at a good clip, as soon as she is yours. Think of a new car analogy.



Later, beyond maybe 5 years, boats tend to lose value much slower (at a slower rate that is), at the same time many onboard systems start showing age a bit and annual outlay tends to reach, easily, 10%.


The new Moodies DS are complex boats with many optional systems in the pack. The systems seem of indifferent quality too. Hence I would expect:


- up to 5% in outlay on keeping her bristol early on,


- 5-10% pa in outlay on keeping her operational and safe and value once she is about 5 y.o.


There are endless factors like your skill level, location, attitudes and definitions of 'perfect condition' that will affect the scale left and right of the averages.


A nice boat. Beware of her electrical systems though.


Cheers,
b.

[BigNurse]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I always hear the 10% figure, but it has always seemed a bit high to me. I mean, why not just skip the maintenance and buy a new boat in 10 years?

I'd go closer to 5%, and I'm guessing you'll have enough to do any essential equipment replacement, in addition to your known expenses. At a minimum, that amount will mitigate any surprises.

Doesn't include optional things you'll likely decide you want to add to your baby.

The boat will be new, and total cost will be 1,4M€. 5% of this amount its around 70.000€/year which means 5833€/month, what I think its totally crazy high amount of money for maintenance.

I’m not worry for the “long term” costs (like changing rigging, sails, etc), as in around 6 to 8 years I will sold her and buy a new one.
Ships are like cars: fantastic when new, but when you drive them for a time, its time to change them for a new one.
Selling a boat like this, well maintened, will lost very little money (not many of them in the market), so investment will be not too costly.
All the gadgets and extra equipment will be installed in factory, I’ve checked all the optional possibilities, so I don’t think I could need to install anything more items when I receive the boat.