Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

[capttman]

Originally Posted by colemj

No, you understand that incorrectly. The subsidies come from the federal government for all states. Mark

Your statement is true. However you cannot get them if your state does not have a market place..
Read the law. Oh also read page 1050 interesting

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by colemj

No, you understand that incorrectly. The subsidies come from the federal government for all states.

Mark

Which is a BIG Problem with the law as it is written today, which FORBIDS the Subsidies to go to individuals that live in States that have not set up State exchanges, but have left that role to the Feds. The HHS is trying to intrepret the law to allow for these subsidies, knowing the law could collapse without them. But there is a lawsuit moving through the court system challanging this HHS ruling....and if it goes through...well then only residents who live in States that have set up a State Exchange will be elegible for the welfare check subsidy. We need to keep an eye on this becasue it could have HUGE consequences for Cruisers and what "home state" they wish to declare...AKA...Florida to save on State income taxes.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

...... From our experiences of cruising in Mexico, I would choose not to pay for ACA insurance and stick with local care because the private heath system in Mexcio is of good quality. .......
.........
The facts as I see them and most agree is that there are WINNERS and LOSERS due to the ACA. I'm a loser, as our upper middle class earners.......

That heart attack just might occur while you are visiting back in the US. So going bare does put your family assets at risk. The biggest caues of bankrupcy in the uS is still health care related. And many of those folks are hard working, good citizens.

Does the converse of upper middle class losers mean that the non-upper middle class and non-rich are winners with the offered health insurance from this law?

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

The facts as I see them and most agree is that there are WINNERS and LOSERS due to the ACA. I'm a loser, as our upper middle class earners. There are winners on the other hand, reality again isn't black and white outside of the ideological bubble some constuct to protect themselves from having their ideas challanged.

Loser in what way? That you could always afford health care, and now you are no longer better than those that couldn't?

Or is it because you don't get subsidized for care that you can already pay for?

[goboatingnow]

What's an upper middle class earners is that 200K + or what.


Dave

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

What's an upper middle class earners is that 200K + or what.


Dave

That's easy...the ACA defines that when it phases out the welfare check subsidy.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by CatInHand

Loser in what way? That you could always afford health care, and now you are no longer better than those that couldn't?

Or is it because you don't get subsidized for care that you can already pay for?

I know it's sometimes hard to follow these types of long posts, so I'll define the phrase "Winners and Losers". The winners and losers definitions used to desribe the ACA goes to the fact that some will now pay more for health insurance while other pay less for health insurance than they did or would have prior to the ACA. Those who pay more (losers) and those who pay less winners. I'm not sure where the left field "better than others" personal dig came from, but it's unfortunate that we cruisers/live aboard can't even have a disucsstion without name calling.

I am one of the losers who had a great Catastrophic plan (the topic of this thread) for years for the family and loved it and now becasue of the ACA will be forced into buying a plan with a higher deductable for double the cost. Sadly, some take the attitude towards us "losers", "tough luck buddy just sit back and stuff it". There are millions of people just like me and I know several cruisers (some have posted here) in the exact same "loser position".

As for defining "winning" by wanting or needing a welfare check subsidy, nothing can be further from the truth. Personally I never wanted one...wouldn't take one if it was available anyway. There is the complex I have about robbing from my kids and future generations for things I can provide for myself. What people don't want to admit in this whold disucssion is the magical tooth fairy Mr Welfare check subsidy is BROKE...his account is busted and in debt to China. I wouldn't call it winning to get a welfare check on loan from China to burden society or my kids futures, I'm old fashioned that way when it comes to debt and who is the slave to who.

Once again a one size fits all Govent approach has taken away people's freedom and liberty for the chains of healthcare security.

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

As for defining "winning" by wanting or needing a welfare check subsidy,

Good of you to make it clear that you aren't painting those lower income folk who can't afford health insurance with some kind of label that defines them as lower than yourself....

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

I know it's sometimes hard to follow these types of long posts, so I'll define the phrase "Winners and Losers". The winners and losers definitions used to desribe the ACA goes to the fact that some will now pay more for health insurance while other pay less for health insurance than they did or would have prior to the ACA.

I am one of the losers who had a great Catastrophic plan (the topic of this thread) for years for the family and loved it and now becasue of the ACA will be forced into buying a plan with a higher deductable for double the cost. Sadly, some take the attitude towards us "losers", "tough luck buddy just sit back and stuff it". There are millions of people just like me and I know several cruisers (some have posted here) in the exact same "loser position".

As for defining "winning" by wanting or needing a welfare check subsidy, nothing can be further from the truth. Personally I never wanted one...wouldn't take one if it was available anyway. There is the complex I have about robbing from my kids and future generations for things I can provide for myself. What people don't want to admit in this whold disucssion is the magical tooth fairy Mr Welfare check subsidy is BROKE...his account is busted and in debt to China. I wouldn't call it winning to get a welfare check on loan from China to burden society or my kids futures, I'm old fashioned that way when it comes to debt and who is the slave to who.

Once again a one size fits all Govent approach has taken away people's freedom and liberty for the chains of healthcare security.

Go sailing , leave the right wing polemic behind. While sailing read up on monetary policy and fiat currencies. Also read social history to see why social welfare systems were established after WWII.

From an outsiders view ACA isnt a bad plan , even if the introduction is scrappy, especially with certain states trying to sabotage the process.

As I understand it the primary reason your existing health plan goes away is that it isn't sufficient to meet minimum standards. That's a good thing , you can't establish a universal Heath insurance marketplace , if you allow arbitrary plans and hence a race to the bottom trading pathetic coverage for reduced fees. You need a minimum standard.

Anyway catastrophic Heath cover is a bit ridiculous , all Heath outcomes studies show that early detection , screening and preventative actions reduce the risk of needing catastrophic medical intervention. Hence better have a good rounded plan that encourages people to access healthcare early, rather then leave medical issues till, they are chronic .

Dave

[colemj]

Rich, I'm curious how you feel about farmers, milk producers, cattle grazers, sugar companies, the aerospace/military companies, energy companies, etc.

All of them get much larger "welfare checks" each than the entire output for the ACA.

I understand you don't like the concept of the ACA, and support your right there, but referring to the tax situation around it as "welfare checks" is technically incorrect, exceeded by the above, and offensive.

Maybe bring your debate points to the table stripped of the more emotionally-constructed terms?

Mark

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

That's easy...the ACA defines that when it phases out the welfare check subsidy.

If you can pay for it. Then pay for it , if you can't , use the tax system to help poorer people pay for it. Big deal. One of the key criteria of a modern tax system is it helps distribute wealth. Nothing wrong with that

Dave

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

That's easy...the ACA defines that when it phases out the welfare check subsidy.

I think that's actually when the ACA defines you as not being nearly destitute. Big difference.

[smj]

Originally Posted by colemj

Rich, I'm curious how you feel about farmers, milk producers, cattle grazers, sugar companies, the aerospace/military companies, energy companies, etc.

All of them get much larger "welfare checks" each than the entire output for the ACA.

I understand you don't like the concept of the ACA, and support your right there, but referring to the tax situation around it as "welfare checks" is technically incorrect, exceeded by the above, and offensive.

Maybe bring your debate points to the table stripped of the more emotionally-constructed terms?

Mark

Really good post. Puts things in perspective.

[jcapo]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

My understanding was that the ACA exchanges wouldn't really cover you outside the USA.

As I understand it, and I could be wrong, ACA exchange plans won't cover you outside of your COUNTY much less outside the US.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by jcapo

As I understand it, and I could be wrong, ACA exchange plans won't cover you outside of your COUNTY much less our side the US.

Yes, you could be wrong. Look at the plan details of the plan that you pick. Many are PPOs and list thousands of providers. The one I'm trying to sign up with in Washington state had the docs that I have used in Virginia and Fla as well as WA state on their list.