28ft Bluewater Live aboard recommendations

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Just to toss in a number or two i9nto the discussion for the OP's benefit. Sails don't last forever and if you buy a dock queen for $10K, which implies 30 or 40 years old, she will likely need new suit of sails before you do anything more than local coastal cruising. Budget $15K for that.

In my experience that's quite high for news sails, especially for +/- 30' boat. I bought a new, heavy main, extra reef points, extra reinforcing and a 135 RF Genoa made in the US for just over $6,000 for a 42' boat. I think a 30' boat for that much you could by a main and a couple of jibs for that or less. Shop for good, slightly used sails knock off another 30-50%

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Hang around, study diligently and ask all the questions you like. There are one or two of our members who are quite "forthright". Don't let that put you off. We all hope you will succeed - with your eyes wide open :-)!

TP

[Jim Cate]

hi stainless rigging has copper swages they dont rust,

Copper swages on s/s standing rigging?? Only on rather small boats, and never recommended for 1x19 wire.

this thread sweems to have been posted by someone with little practical experience.

Are you referring to yourself? Sorta seems that way.... and Boatman61 has more very practical experience than most everyone on this forum. As a freelance delivery skiper, he's seen a lot of "interesting" boats and then taken them to sea... and survived the experience.

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Since the OP is a self-confessed newbie, I'd like to mention Letcher's book, "Self Steering For Sailing Craft".

If you looked at Blue Alexandra, you'll note he uses a sculling oar instead of a motor. Now, doing that limits somewhat where and when he can go. I would not start out engineless, myself, because I like being to go into my destination at the appropriate state of the tide, and prefer it to be daylight without the sun in my eyes when I do it.
Some places where you might want to seek shelter you might not be able to enter, engineless, in a timely fashion.

Imo, your time frame will surely have to change, your budget is small, and boat things always take a lot longer than one anticipates. This is not to say that it will not be doable, but trying to hold yourself to a 2 yr. schedule for it will really put the pressure on, and it takes time to learn how to "stack" jobs, so that you work on B and C while A's chemicals are drying, then move A through its next step, and back to C & D, etc.
You'll be on the steep part of the learning curve. And, be warned, most newbies underestimate both the difficulty of the undertaking, and what they will find out at sea.

Ann

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yeah.. Whatever..!!!

you have just confirmed my opinion of you mr delivery skipper.

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Copper swages on s/s standing rigging?? Only on rather small boats, and never recommended for 1x19 wire.



Are you referring to yourself? Sorta seems that way.... and Boatman61 has more very practical experience than most everyone on this forum. As a freelance delivery skiper, he's seen a lot of "interesting" boats and then taken them to sea... and survived the experience.

Jim

hi , this thread refers to boats around 28ft. these boats would not have rigging larger than 6mm this has copper ferruls. how do you know what experience he has or me his comment about rerigging not being necesary for a circumnavigation on an unknown boat is wrong i might have less sea miles than him but its in my own boats which i mantain being as he didnt reply to any of my points except with a sarcastic reply makes him arrogant. i have 8 atlantic crossings ,7 singlehanded wrecked in 1986 in the azores in 140knot winds 48 years sailing my own boats i sailed my boat 26ft to the canaries from england last summer ready for the 9th crossing this winter . ive enough experience to comment on boatman 61s post jim cate

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by scallowayuk

you have just confirmed my opinion of you mr delivery skipper.

Hey !!! you guys should get together. You might actually become good friends. The world has many surprises. I went to school in Essex. Don't ask.

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by picklesandjesse

Hey !!! you guys should get together. You might actually become good friends. The world has many surprises. I went to school in Essex. Don't ask.

if he had replied to my post without sarcasm i have enough experience to make a critical comment. if he dosn,t like it tough. ps your a long way from essex, im from rayleigh.

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by scallowayuk

if he had replied to my post without sarcasm i have enough experience to make a critical comment. if he dosn,t like it tough. ps your a long way from essex, im from rayleigh.

I escaped to " The Colonies " in 1957. But was in North America for 25 years. Came back here to die in the warm weather and I LOVE birds. Australia is a land of birds, more people should know that. We are very lucky. They fly into our house, parrots everywhere. Chirp......

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by scallowayuk

you have just confirmed my opinion of you mr delivery skipper.

Good.. I hate to disappoint folks..
As for sailing small boats.. solo crossings non stop in Corribee and Hurley 22 Poole to Viveiro and Baiona, N Spain respectively in December.
Solo'd a 31ftr from Perth to E Tasmania across the Australian Bight and through the Bass Straits.. mind.. I did make a couple of stops so I guess that minimises the trip somewhat..
Out of the 15 boats I have owned only 5 have been over 26ft.. as to your snark about swages.. its not the fitting thats the problem its the wire inside that rusts and fails over time..
Thats what I loved about my Tiki's.. no metal fittings to think about just easily inspected lashings.
As for rigging for small boats I prefer galvanised wire and fittings..
its stronger size for size, cheaper and easily done by ones self.. no special tools required.
But thats just me.. most prefer the nice shiny stainless along with all its weaknesses.
But.. it seems all in all you do have more experience than me.. I've never lost a boat.
So.. I will concede the 'Who can Pi$$ furthest contest'.

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Good.. I hate to disappoint folks..
As for sailing small boats.. solo crossings non stop in Corribee and Hurley 22 Poole to Viveiro and Baiona, N Spain respectively in December.
Solo'd a 31ftr from Perth to E Tasmania across the Australian Bight and through the Bass Straits.. mind.. I did make a couple of stops so I guess that minimises the trip somewhat..
Out of the 15 boats I have owned only 5 have been over 26ft.. as to your snark about swages.. its not the fitting thats the problem its the wire inside that rusts and fails over time..
Thats what I loved about my Tiki's.. no metal fittings to think about just easily inspected lashings.
As for rigging for small boats I prefer galvanised wire and fittings..
its stronger size for size, cheaper and easily done by ones self.. no special tools required.
But thats just me.. most prefer the nice shiny stainless along with all its weaknesses.
But.. it seems all in all you do have more experience than me.. I've never lost a boat.
So.. I will concede the 'Who can Pi$$ furthest contest'.

this isnt about who can piss further i couldnt care less. you made a comment infering it was not necessary to renew rigging for a circumnavigation on a small boat you have just bought , i disagree (is nobody allowed to disagree with you?.) and think its bad advice as rerigging small boats is not expensive on small boats and apart from sinking losing your mast far from land is as bad as it gets as ill repeat the point you choose to ignore and just make a sarcastic comment that says more about you than me. on small boats you could also lose you navlights ,ais or radio, for the sake of a few hundred pounds now you might not like criticism in your pissing ground but your comment ( the wire inside)where you cant see it kinda reinforces my point. you cant trust unknown rigging i agree with you about galvanised years ago but in england you cant get quality galvanised rigging anymore, but the point is irrelevant, were giving advice to a relative novice who wants to buy a boat with the idea to circumnavigate one day. the boat he buys will almost certainly have ss rigging. do i get a civilised reply this time ps, bernard motissier lost 3 boats, im in good company

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by picklesandjesse

I escaped to " The Colonies " in 1957. But was in North America for 25 years. Came back here to die in the warm weather and I LOVE birds. Australia is a land of birds, more people should know that. We are very lucky. They fly into our house, parrots everywhere. Chirp......

hi sounds like paradise, my boat, an offshore 8 meter is in the canaries , ill sail to the indies this winter ,then to new zeland as ive met many boats that say the islands are fabulous. not sure about panama as it might be cheaper to put the boat on a lorry to transit as im told the canal is very expensive, but we,ll see when i get there regards.

[boatman61]

Regarding the OP.. He said he is looking to buy.. and he is a newbie so he is unlikly to set off tomorrow.
Likely he will sail a while locally then expand his horizons as his experience grows.. and modify/upgrade his boat to suit his ambitions..
I merely stated that he does not need to consider rerigging as an immediate expense on purchase of the boat.. we have a member who bought a 30ftr for $1000 off Craigs list then went on to circumnavigate doing barely anything to upgrade.. he even (in the eyes off many) degraded the boat by pulling out the engine and opting for sculling.. he did it via NZ and round Good Hope.. proving good seamanship counts more than shiny new gear and all the bells and whistles.
I did not rerig for any of my long solo's or transats.. had a stay pop on my 47day nonstop from St Martin to Salcombe but a couple of blocks and some line served as an adequate jury for the last 1000nm of the trip.
I sail conservatively and prefer to be the bamboo rather than the oak..
As to the losing the boat thing.. I would prefer not to be in yours or Mottesiers company thank you.. I do not view it as an accomplishment.
Lets just accept we have different approaches to life and sailing.. your not the first to say I'm crap.. and I doubt you will be the last.. life would get boring if that happened.

[boatman61]

By the way.. just reread the thread and see no incivility or sarcsm in my posts until after you called me a fool and kinda impuned me as a delivery skipper.. and even then it was mild sarcasm..
Insecurities showing through..???

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by scallowayuk

hi , this thread refers to boats around 28ft. these boats would not have rigging larger than 6mm this has copper ferruls.

Rubbish, the majority of stainless steel yacht rigging has stainless ferrules, who is going to mix copper, SS and saltwater together for rigging?

these boats would not have rigging larger than 6mm.

Really? all of them? mine is 2.5ft bigger and has 7 and 8mm rigging.

Our concern is that people who read these forums are often novices and could take some of the advice as gospel, hence why the forum rules allow you to challenge statements that are posted on CF, provided you do it politely though.

Pete

[Jim Cate]

hi , this thread refers to boats around 28ft. these boats would not have rigging larger than 6mm this has copper ferrules.

Not in the world I sail in,mate. It is never good practice to use copper ferrules (Nico Press or Tellurit) on 1x19 wire. Any decent rigger will tell you this, for it unevenly stresses the wires on the outside of the thimble and leads to early failure. Even on smaller (like 28 foot) boats, standard rigging practice includes sleeve type swage terminals or mechanical terminals.

You've been pretty dismissive of other's knowledge and experience...perhaps you should have a good look at your own when making such statements.

Jim