When/How to cross the golden gate

[Yangyangyyy]

I've seen these references on when/how to cross the golden gate bridge:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...co-214574.html
https://tradewindssailing.com/wordpress/?p=1981


I have a few questions:
1) both references mention that we should not go out on an ebb, but on a slack or at least flood. They did not explain exactly why and ebb is bad. So why is going out on ebb bad?
2) I seemed to have read somewhere that it's better to go out the golden gate close to the side of the gate, just enough to avoid the rocks, because there were some counter currents ?? is this right?
3) both the above refences mention "go in the morning on a slack", but slack and tide time changes everyday, so a slack is not guaranteed to be in the morning, right? but we should just go by the actual slack time, right?

[gamayun]

1) An ebb and large sea state from offshore winds to shore are in conflict and can lead to uncomfortable conditions outside the gate. That's not to say you can't go out on an ebb, only that it's better if you can plan it this way. That said, racers prefer going out on an ebb so we can at least get flushed out if the wind dies offshore as it often does.

2) The "gate" (as far as I know) refers to the bridge and not to one particular side. The south side of the bridge is well known among surfers, and breakers are never good for sailboats. So the #1 rule you should abide by is to not cut inside the South Tower. There are definitely countercurrents throughout the bay and outside the gate you can take advantage of, which are used by everyone who knows about them including power boaters. I once asked a top racer, "how close to shore can I get to take advantage of these countercurrents?" The non-answer I got back was, "Would this be in your boat or someone else's?" I've since learned you can figure out if you're in a counter current if you watch your boat speed.

Still, please keep in mind the rocks and the hard spots, too.

3) Morning is best because the wind inside the "slot" (i.e., between the gate and Berkeley) is not usually blasting yet. That kinda depends on the day and the time of year. Right now, for example, it would be best to get out before 8 AM or all bets are off....

[wholybee]

It depends on the boat, and the offshore conditions. I don't think "don't go out on an ebb" is a fair assessment. A stong ebb, against a strong onshore breeze will create very rough conditions. Short period 6'-10' waves outside the gate (but still inside the mouth of the bay) are not uncommon, and you do NOT want to sail against that.

OTOH, in light wind against a flood, you probably can't get out the gate without motoring, and in that case, wait for the ebb. Or motor and enjoy the flat conditions. I would often leave just before high slack, and catch the beginning of the ebb, but be outside the bay before it became strong.

Stay away from the south tower. Currents there are dangerous, and never even think about cutting inside the south tower.

You can go close to the north tower, and there are often counter currents there, and along the north shore outside the gate, just stay off the rocks.

I would typically sail to near Blackaller, then tack and head to the north tower, then tack and head toward Mile Rock.

If you are lucky, sometimes in the morning there is a light land breeze before it starts to warm up. Then you can sail straight out the gate under spinnaker, but check the swell outside the gate first.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Yangyangyyy.

[skyline]

Avoid rush hour.

[skwanderer]

Originally Posted by wholybee

It depends on the boat, and the offshore conditions. I don't think "don't go out on an ebb" is a fair assessment. A stong ebb, against a strong onshore breeze will create very rough conditions. Short period 6'-10' waves outside the gate (but still inside the mouth of the bay) are not uncommon, and you do NOT want to sail against that..

BTDT! Absolutely true!! We were motoring out right in the middle of the channel, bashing into smallish white caps (1+ ft or so), then just as we passed directly under the bridge, suddenly in 6-8 ft wind swells maybe 4-5 seconds apart. Freakish!

[sail sfbay]

Leave on an ebb or slack in the middle of the bridge WITH your motor ON and be mindful of the wind direction and speed outside the gate. Return on a flood or slack in the middle of the bridge with your engine on.

[Stu Jackson]

Read Kimball Livingston's excellent book: Sailing The Bay. Answers all your questions.


I sailed The Bay from 1978 to 2016. Ebb out, flood in, sometime v/v depending on the strength of the currents, sometimes they are very light and are different twice a day. Learn to read the little T&C book, also explained in Kimball's book.

[Lemsteraak]

Watch what the fishermen do, they know the currents under the gate.

I don't know if the Army Corp Bay model is still up and running in Sausalito but it models the currents. It is very informative. If I remember right wild thing happen like right after Max Ebb you get a flood near the shore.

You are wise to study the currents, it will make your sailing that much more fun.

[MarkSF]

The hazard goes beyond discomfort. The chief danger is breaking waves. In the shallower areas, to the north and south of the main channel, waves can break, and they can do so suddenly and without warning. Obviously, they are also more likely to break when they are larger, and also when the water is shallower.

The safest time to avoid breaking waves is when the water is deeper, and when wind waves are smaller (ebb tide against the wind makes bigger waves).

A 30ft boat can be capsized by a 10ft high breaking wave on the beam.

I have and would continue to go out on an ebb, but only in a forecast for smaller wind waves and swell - ask yourself how would I feel about the forecast wave heights breaking?

Also - my rule is always tether on when near or outside the GG bridge.

[Lepke]

When I was a commercial fisherman, early in the season I operated out of Sausalito. I ran the GG almost daily. In the summer or anytime inland areas have high heat, wind is drawn in thru the gate, usually starting around noon. And you get the usual problems with tide and wind going in the opposite direction.
Slack water, high tide is the best way to cross the GG or any bar. For the gate, early mornings often have no wind. Fog is dissipated in the wind, so fog, in relation to waves and wind, is your friend.

I had a 55' commercial boat. Once going at exactly the wrong time, about a mile west of the bridge, I went thru a series of three huge waves, close together that broke over the top of the wheelhouse. Out of the windows, I had solid green water. Once thru, the ocean was calm. After that, I planned my trips, even if I had to leave much earlier.
Under the bridge it's about 300' deep. Near mile rocks the depth goes down to about 80' in some places. There's also a couple of shallow shipwrecks about 60' deep that can have their own wave. Ocean swells coming into shallower water raise higher an get closer together. And it's exaggerated by a wind in the opposite direction. Crossing at high tide can, at times, give you another 10' of depth and less effect on the swells.

[mvweebles]

As a guy who spent about 5-years as a full-time delivery skipper based in SF, I've been through The Gate more times than I can even estimate.

First, general guidance is for all West Coast bar-crossings, beware an ebb against strong winds. This is the same logic East Coast boaters use when crossing the Gulf Stream. But this is not a hard/fast rule. In the winter, the ebb-current can easily exceed 6-kts. That's a helluva lot different than 2-kt ebb which is more typical in the summer.

Second, there are a lot of shifting and swirling currents in the mile either side of the Bridge. Even at slack-current you'll find all sorts of eddies.

Third, slack-tide DOES NOT equate to slack-current. This is where the Bay Model someone else mentioned is really instructive (if it still exists). Even though the tide-level is at a standstill, the water can be moving pretty fast. As a matter of fact, even when water is lowering, there can be a flood-current, which is really hard for me to wrap my head around but that's the way it works. The little tide/current books that used to be free all over were helpful.

Finally, I sort of dislike threads like these that talk about the "best-time" to enter some place (Columbia River bar is another popular thread topic). As the OP insinuates, if you listen to the 'best time' advice, you may wait for days for the desired conditions. I really wish the focus would be on when NOT to cross; and what type of precautions to take in marginal conditions. If you're headed-out on a flood (at least from the City side vs Sausalito side), hug the south shore from Crissy Field through the Bridge, and continue towards China Beach. You'll still get knocked, but by a lot less.

But I have to say, threads like these and of course threads about Pt Conception were what kept me in business as a delivery skipper. Honestly, there's a ton of over-blown information about cruising the West Coast. No doubt, it's big water and many of the transit distances are long, but still, it's more manageable than many portray it to be.

Peter

[DEAN2140]

Lots of good advice here. One thing not mentioned is Potato Patch Shoals (or Four Fathom Shoals) which are on your chart. This area should be avoided but especially in the winter and in an ebb. The shoals got their name from a ship that went down carrying a cargo of potatoes. I would recommend doing the trip when the winds are moderate, like in the Spring or Fall. At those times, the wind outside the Gate can be much less than in the Bay.

[friz]

I am sitting on the sidelines and will never do this but I am curious, is the wind always against you leaving the Golden Gate?

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by friz

I am sitting on the sidelines and will never do this but I am curious, is the wind always against you leaving the Golden Gate?

Almost, but there are rare exceptions. The wind and swells almost always come from the NW, though the most common exception is daybreak when winds can swirl. There are occasional pictures of a sailboat headed west under spinnaker. There are some winter storms that wrap-around with the backside coming from the east and south, but those are relatively rare. I'd say 99% of the time, the winds are from the NW quadrant.

When early mariners transited the West Coast, they would stand-off many miles to avoid being driven into the mountainous shores. In the late 1500's when Sir Francis Drake explored the West Coast, he careened his "Golden Hind" ship on the shores of what is now Drakes Bay, 25-nms north of the Golden Gate. It's hard to believe, but from seaward, the Golden Gate (the gap, not the bridge) is difficult to see - Mt Diablo is 20-30 miles away and is a very tall mountain, so the coastal range looks continuous. Had anyone sailed close enough to SF Bay to have discovered it, Drake would have surely careened his boat in SF Bay.

Peter