San Diego to San Francisco

[fatherchronica]

This is a good time of year to do it. In September of 2017 we mostly motored Mana from Channel Islands Harbor to Humboldt Bay. We were in a hurry as our house sitter only had a little time so we we motored 51 hours straight to Santa Cruz the first leg. We hit 55 kt. headwinds with what bigger vessels reported were 19 foot braking seas for about 10 hours South of Santa Cruz. Last December there were expected ( by NOAA and Solspot) 49 foot seas here in Humboldt but the next day it was lowered to 43 feet and when we went to the silted in harbor mouth the breakers coming down the mouth were 25 foot occasionally at best, but pretty scary to us. We just watched. The Baja Bash is way South of you. They are in hurricane season in Southern Baja, and we bashed back in 2015 in late June and it was pretty miserable until we left Isla Cedros 3 days behind us. After that it was a pleasant cakewalk up to Channel Islands. It took us several months, but we never encountered anymore weather that year, that voyage. There are a ton of harbors with overnight guest docks, and many cool places to anchor out all the way to Point Conception, then it gets a bit further between safe places, but there are still options and other then an almost constant miserable ride around Point Conception it should be pretty enjoyable this time of year. Get a good, maybe used, California chart book and you should have a great trip. After San Simeon if we were sailing we would tack out to sea a ways and then you can heave to rest if need be. A Flicka is an ideal design if there were any weather anyway. When we got to Santa Cruz in 2017 there were other bigger boats that were near us in the bad weather and part of the professional crew of an 85 foot sport fisher looking powerboat said they were though and said that waves were breaking over the cabin. Time heels all wounds though and they stayed onboard to go to Seattle though. A Hylas 50 also said they were swept stem to stern with blue water all that night, but like Mana they had a pilothouse, so it is mostly surreal unless you have to go forward for something. A Flicka is very similar to being a tiny Mana and we had no blue water ever on deck, a lot of thick spray, but she is duck like, as I imagine your boat to be. The guys in your marina have very likely never left San Diego Bay and maybe the marina too. That is my opinion, but in my defense I have left San Diego Bay going both directions on a few occasions. Good luck, you could and should have a ball.

[Hardhead]

On a totally different aside, I own a Catalina 22 - which seems similar in space to the Flicka 20. If you're looking for a dinghy down the line, check out the 8 foot Porta-Bote and Suzuki 2.5 four stroke. The outboard is only 29 lbs, and the boat 68 lbs. Easy enough to store on a boat that size, and great for getting to the beaches, etc. One of the best things I ever bought.

[jrau18]

I've sailed/motored this trip. It is very uncomfortable in average conditions. Pt conception (really a 100 mile stretch) frequently does not match forecast conditions. If they're forecasting 6 foot waves on 8 or 9 seconds and 25 knot gusts (average summer conditions), expect more like 8 to 10 on 8 seconds (ie almost breaking) and gusts to 45. In a flicka, that is past uncomfortable, you'll be making very little progress at best. In typical summer conditions in a flicka, you'll need to be tethered constantly during that stretch with all hatched closed. Hand steering will be exhausting and autotiller unlikely to keep up. Your outboard definitely will not handle the typical conditions, it will be sails or nothing.


If your ability to be away from home is limited, truck it up. The beauty of the flicka is that you have that luxury.

If you have the ability to work from marinas (or dont work) and can be away for an extended period of time, you could sit in guest slips waiting for brief windows of reverse weather and get in one or two day jumps. It could take 3 weeks, or it could take 3 months this way. But it would be massively more comfortable in the right conditions.

Also you could read about the "clipper route," which is significantly offshore. You're a bit more north than people normally start this way, but it's a possibility. This would take 2 weeks, maybe and takes you well offshore, your first 24 hours would be reaching out past the channel islands 100 miles or more.

If you do choose to sail up, be sure the boat is equipped as a bluewater boat. If conditions pick up, many of the harbors will close due to breaking waves at the entrance, so you'll be 24 hours or more from a harbor for some parts. In a true emergency, you could be 8 to 10 hours from a helicopter rescue. You must have an immersion suit, liferaft, etc. If it were me, I would not equip the boat as if it were a series of day sails, even if you do it as a series of day sails.

Tldr: there are a few "right ways" to do this. But there are also some high risk ways to do this. Pick the one that fits your situation. It's your life to risk, so choose the risk/reward ratio that fits your comfort level.

[Montslr]

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. It sounds like half suggest shipping it up North for $4,000 is better than trying to sail it up and just getting lucky, like the other half suggest. I am just trying to figure out if it is because of danger, inconvenience, discomfort, or all three. I owned a Montgomery 17 before buying the Flicka and never got seasick, including in big water outside of the Golden Gate Bridge. I am used to getting very wet and do not expect the trip to be comfortable. I do enjoy comforts, but not enough to spend 1/4 of what I bought the boat for. I know it is impossible for a boat owner to say they are frugal, but I like to think I am. Just to let Father Tronica know, I trust the advice from the people at the yacht club because everyone I talked to have skippered or participated in the Pac cup, around the Farrallons, and/or the Baja HA Ha, and all the sails back to San Francisco.
Unfortunately, I am still questioning which way is the better way to go. I appreciate all the stories about what could happen. It helps me imagine what problems I could run into and what strategies you used to prevent them. It sounds like the fall months are the best time to begin the trip if that is the route I decide to go.

Thank you again

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by Dan Best

I've done that trip a number of times, but never in a boat that small.

I've made the voyage round-trip three times in my 26 foot Ariel. You just have to be very prudent. If you have a problem in a big boat, you have a big problem.

More: Approaching San Francisco: Plan to enter the S.F. channel from way out west at the end of the deep water channel. A few people lose their vessel (and sometimes lives) trying to cut the corner. I've gone through the channel inbound to the Bay on days when the ocean swells were breaking on both sides of the channel. Only the Columbia River is more dangerous on the Pacific Coast. Don't even think about being in the channel during max ebb tide - it's a washing machine. Time your entry for the transition of slack-to-flood tide.

I'd spend the night at Pillar Point Harbor for a rest before sailing to the Bay. The Harbor master is there 24/7 and monitors channel 74.

Abeam Point Montara (just north of Half Moon Bay), monitor Vessel Traffic Service on channel 14, where you will hear regular announcements of traffic traversing the channel. Don't be shy about calling to ask for info ("San Francisco Traffic") if you perceive any chance of a traffic conflict. (It would be very nice to have AIS beyond this point in your journey.) The ships in the traffic lanes monitor channel 13 - and often not 16. Approaching the entrance to the deep water channel (marked clearly with buoys), call the pilot boat on channel 13 ("San Francisco Pilot") that keeps station nearly 24/7 at the channel entrance. They can give you excellent up-to-the-minute reports on the channel's conditions. If it's bad, go back to Pillar Point. Stay in the channel, or slightly right of the channel if big boats need to get by, all the way until you are under the Golden Gate Bridge.

I would avoid entering the S.F.Bay on a weekend day. The risk of collision is extreme then, with fast ferries crisscrossing the Bay, and adrenalin-crazed boneheaded racers who will put their bow right through your boat while target-obsessed on the boat beside them going 1/10th knot faster. Keep your horn handy.

Good luck!

[Cpt Mark]

I delivered yachts on this route for 15 years or so. I've gone around Pt Conception with the owner in a bosuns chair at the end of the boom having the time of his life and hit big storms trying to thread the needle. Don't thread the needle!

This time of year is actually a good time to sail. Oftentimes you will get stuff blowing up from down south and can have a nice wind behind you. Unfortunately these windows are pretty short by now.

The real issue I see for you is distances. Leave Coho and aim for San Luis Obispo. That's a long trip. Then Morro Bay is around the corner and after that about 25 miles N is San Simeon bay. After that there is no place to go into until Monterey bay which is a long ways. Once there you could harbor hop to Santa Cruz then do an overnight to Half Moon Bay.

So, how much fuel can you carry? This I think will be your biggest issue . And not just the PITA of carrying tons of it but then fueling while being bounced around. How will you do that? Your boat is stout, I love them but slow. You're going against the current the whole way. You could easily lose 1 full knot of more of forward progress.

July, August September should be pretty benign months and easier cruising. Weather most likely not a big deal but you do have those long legs. If the weather does pipe up you could damage your boat and yourselves.

I had 1 client who hired me to bring his trawler up from Ventura Harbor to SF. No big deal. He said he ran out of vacation time. Ok. He didn't tell me it took the 2 weeks to get there from San Diego due to all the boat issues they had. You won't know until you go. If you decide to bring it up yourself, see how the trip goes to to either Ventura or Santa Barbara and then maybe reevaluate then and decide if the speed, distance, etc is what you're up for. Don't forget though, there is no current there to speak of.

My professional advice is this. The boat is well founded and an awesome design. If you were completing a circumnavigation or even a trip to Mexico and back I'd say you knew enough to make this decision easily but you don't have that experience or knowledge of the boat. I'd truck it. Get it home safe and sound then learn. BTW, does the 4K include unstepping and restepping the mast as well as protection for it on the drive?

[Montslr]

The quote was $3,000 and the quoter estimated a $500 haul out and another $500 on the other side because the boat needs a lift to set it on the trailer properly. I plan on unstepping the mast on my own time because even the boat yard I went to for replacing my 17 foot sailboats rigging charged me $900 to unstep and step the mast. I just decided to do it myself and will do it that way again if I need to. I will think about moving it up to a different location every Friday, Saturday, Sunday, when there is a good weather window. Will the following work for each three day weekend...
Oceanside to Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara to Morro Bay, Morro Bay to Monterey, and Monterey to San Francisco. Is that too ambitious or will 4 weekends be enough?

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by Montslr

I will think about moving it up to a different location every Friday, Saturday, Sunday, when there is a good weather window. Will the following work for each three day weekend...
Oceanside to Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara to Morro Bay, Morro Bay to Monterey, and Monterey to San Francisco. Is that too ambitious or will 4 weekends be enough?

If you're leaving 6am and finishing a leg at 9 pm.... maybe on the longest leg. But then you need to calculate travel Time and fro. As long as you're doing that how will you handle transportation? Sure, drive to Oceanside then you're in Santa Barbara, how do you get your car back to drive home? That would be the easier leg. Morro Bay is remote. You could fly into San Luis Obispo and Uber/bus over but what time/expense will that take?

I understand wanted to go cheap but sometimes, oftentimes, cheap doesn't end up being cheap.

How much fuel burn will you use? Assume you have to motor the whole way and have extra just in case. Also, make sure you have Vessel Assist or whoever in place with unlimited towing. I required that on all yachts I delivered and used it more often than not.

[SV Sailfish]

Montslr,

Congrats and welcome to a really fun way to spend lots of money while having a blast! (with a few "oh crap's!" thrown in)

Check out this book written by a fellow Flicka owner to see what your new little ship is capable of. Kawabunga's South Seas Adventure...

https://www.amazon.com/Kawabungas-So.../dp/0966647203

Happy travels matey!

[roverhi]

George Benson made the trip north from SF to Puget Sound a number of times in a Coronado 27 with outboard. He stayed close to shore and motor sailed most of the way taking advantage of less adverse winds because of the proximity to land and counter currents. His book 'Cruising the Northwest Coast' is an informative read for anyone going north on the Pacific Coast. He doesn't specifically cover the SoCal to SF leg but the wind and wave conditions are similar.

If you get lucky, it will be a motor trip so get that outboard tuned up before you leave and take plenty of fuel. There is a good chance of southerly winds from January to March but they are interspersed with the low pressure systems that bring really nasty conditions on a near weekly basis at that time of year. Definitely want to be tucked in a harbor with protection from very strong southerly winds when those fronts pass through.

[anacapaisland42]

Seriously...the best route is via Hawaii, I kinda remember the Hiscocks (probably the worlds greatest sailing couple, tried the direct sailing route and gave up, taking the bus in the end.
I am trying to forget how long it took us to sail past Point Dume.

Bill









[QUOTE=Montslr;2917211]Hello everyone,
I purchased a Pacific Seacraft Flicka in Oceanside, CA last weekend. The boat only has an outboard motor, but goes very deep into the water is very powerful for the weight of the boat.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And situations like this are what i think of when pundits bray about cruisers not needing to go to windward, so windward performance doesn't matter.

Jim

Amen to thst. Done this trip 6 times in larger and much larger and more powerful proven boats. I would not want to do it in a Flicka with outboard but if you can wait for the weather windows it can be a doable passage.

I think the most important requirement for you to be sucessful here is that you have lots of time and previous experience with the Flicka in moderately rough conditions motoring upwind.

Waiting for the weather window may mean a delay of up to 10 days in one or more harbors. Weather forecasts for wind on CA coast are fairly accurate. Wait for 36 hours of less than 15 knots NW. It does happen even in July and August, but more in September.


The longest jump and worst conditions are often from Morrow Bay/San Luis Bay to Monterey, in form of increasing winds and seas as you approach Pt Sur. There is anchorage at San Simeon in daylight only if needed, but it is still a long way from Sur. Pfieffer Pt is an anchorage used by locals close to Sur but again only daylight.


Read the coast pilot and the book by Brian Fagin (if my memory is correct).

I hope you have radar, depthsounder and AIS receive at least, and know how to use them, to keep you out of trouble in fog.

You will need to know your motor is very reliable since you will use it 95% of the trip, and you need to be accurate in planning fuel usage and providing sufficient capacity.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by anacapaisland42

Seriously...the best route is via Hawaii, I kinda remember the Hiscocks (probably the worlds greatest sailing couple, tried the direct sailing route and gave up, taking the bus in the end.
I am trying to forget how long it took us to sail past Point Dume.

Bill


......

Serously, you forgot to tell the OP how many times you changed a 400 mile coastal trip into a 4,000 mile offshore passage to make things easier

[anacapaisland42]

Oh, over the years I've changed my sailing objectives to follow the wind instead of trying to beat it. The first 1000 + mile (many years ago) mostly up wind and against the current with no motor was enough. The last 2 were with the current and wind (except for a couple of hundred nasty miles but at least they were warm) with a good motor.

I guess if Bligh was alive today he would go for it. But that trip is also, cold, very foggy at times and lots of traffic.
For my money it would be Hawaii or truck :-)

Bill

Originally Posted by Paul L

Serously, you forgot to tell the OP how many times you changed a 400 mile coastal trip into a 4,000 mile offshore passage to make things easier

[Zzmeyer]

I think windward miles are like dog years. They are six times harder than downwind miles.