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24-10-2018, 11:15
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,206
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
The Admiral's plan sounds much sounder.
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24-10-2018, 12:22
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cruising, now in USVIs
Boat: Taswell 43
Posts: 1,055
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
We have used Puerto Del Rey marina , in Fajardo, Puerto Rico, as a base for the past 4 seasons. We've had multiple parts shipped in, including a watermaker that I installed, an Isolation Transformer, a new windlass, and lots of others.......all without issue or incident. And the shipping time has proven to be about what we face here in MN. FedEx, DHL, UPS, and USPS...they all work well both in PR and St Thomas, USVI. IF the boat is usable as is, get on board, discover what you need and don't need, install the "must haves"....and go sailing! Then you'll discover what really needs to be upgraded, what you need, and what's just ..."nice to have". And your better half will have some good ideas, too!!!
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24-10-2018, 12:30
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: GREEN COVE SPRINGS, Florida
Boat: Irwin 43 Mk111 CC, Sloop
Posts: 386
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
Quote:
Originally Posted by sv Stella Maris
Okay. I thought I had a great plan. Our short situation: 2 year sabbatical. Wife and 6 kids, ages 9 and down. We currently sail; I’m a dinghy/J22 instructor/lifeguard with NO experience beyond 36’ monos. New boat is day charter equipped Lagoon 450F.
Current Plan:
1. Rent our house in California.
2. Road trip leisurely across the US after Christmas to Ft. Lauderdale where we have a private slip behind the home of a professional charter/delivery captain (who would also help bring the boat up).
3. Leave the family at Disney World for two weeks and fly to Aruba with crew to sail our sailboat up to the reserved dock. (Over 1,000nm).
4. Move aboard leisurely using AB&B when boat is untenable.
5. Complete solar array, house bank, inverters, etc., enclosures, radar, biminis, H2O maker, etc. (lots I can do myself IF parts are available).
6. Shakedown in the Florida Keys/Bahamas. (Many Captains around to help learn the boat).
7. Cast off after a few months.
8. Hurricane plan for 2019...???...yikes.
BUT, my wife just asked why we don’t scrap the plan and fly to St. Thomas and live there while outfitting and learning the ropes. Her intent is to get to the destination and simplify the plan.
ANY WISDOM/CONCERNS WELCOME!
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Big problem with Si, Thomas and St, Johns is the crime. Reason most Americans cruise the BVI's. Your kids would find more to do in Florida.
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24-10-2018, 12:41
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Back on dirt in Florida
Boat: Currently in between
Posts: 1,338
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
Sparx had it right as far as waiting. Sail the boat for a bit to find out what you really need in the way of upgrades. Take a year to make that determination.
I took everyone's advice on this forum and waited and I'm glad I did. I didn't know what I didn't know and some of the things I "knew" I need didn't turn out to be really needed.
Do the bare basics you mentioned such as radar and weather forecasting and STOP there with the refit. Sail the boat then decide.
As far as Itinerary, the where to and how, that would be a family decision. I usually agree with akprb but today I have to disagree. We spent our 1st two months in Lauderdale and then the next 4 sailing up and down from Lauderdale to Key West. Everything was close and convenient, parts easy to get (oil filters, impellers, etc.) and it was mentally comforting to still be in the states.
__________________
SV Bacchus - Living the good life!
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24-10-2018, 13:19
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Puerto Rico
Boat: Cape Dory 28
Posts: 146
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
I agree with Sailcrazy. Puerto Rico has a lot of pluses. Puerto Rico has Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Sam’s, Costco, West Marine and many more. USPS is fast and cheap at domestic rates. UPS and FedEx both work. From Puerto Del Rey (PDR) on the east coast, it is 6 miles to Vieques in the Spanish Virgin Islands; 8 miles from Vieques to Culebra; Culebra to St. Thomas is another 10 miles. Easy cheap flights to Florida or Texas. No passport required. And it’s 1,000 miles uphill from Florida.
I have done the 47’ charter cat upgrade. First item is the solar panel upgrade. Change out all of the halogens aboard for LED’s. Battery and inverter upgrade and if you are going to be on the hook, I will bet the battery charger is too small – it’s probably sized for charter folks who are either plugged in to the dock or running the generator and a/c non-stop. If you are using up all of your charter sized water tankage quickly, you will need a really big and expensive watermaker to refill them. Otherwise you can fill up water tanks at fuel docks all over the Caribbean. Radar is nice but unless you plan to do a lot of sailing in bad weather, or at night, an unnecessary luxury. If you get into fog in the Caribbean, you are really lost!
For a hurricane escape, it is 370 miles on a broad reach to Curacao – better than Aruba for yacht services. Grenada was a good stop for hurricane season as were the ABC’s.
Fair Winds,
Ed
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24-10-2018, 18:17
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2018
Boat: Lagoon 380
Posts: 141
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooglas
I must be missing something here. I have cruised in the Caribbean with a child under 1 year old and in BC and SE AK with 2 children 7 & 9. Here we are talking 6 children from newborn to 9. You are proposing a leisurely car trip across the US, leaving the family in Florida for a few weeks while you bring a boat North, living aboard for an extended period while refitting the boat, etc. This is nothing I can imagine doing in my worst nightmare, unless I had others helping my wife and I seven ways to Sunday. Are another family member or two available to assist in caring for and entertaining the children? Is a paid caregiver/nanny a possibility? Are you planning to take along crew to assist in boat handling on these "family" cruises?
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I had the same thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV Bacchus
We spent our 1st two months in Lauderdale and then the next 4 sailing up and down from Lauderdale to Key West. Everything was close and convenient, parts easy to get (oil filters, impellers, etc.) and it was mentally comforting to still be in the states.
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This is our tentative plan as well, although we're empty nesters so it's less complicated.
Additionally, kids in that age range require a lot of vaccinations and developmental pediatrician visits-have you considered that in your planning?
I'm not saying don't do it; but I do feel like there are a lot of moving parts that you haven't taken into consideration that have nothing to do with the boat.
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24-10-2018, 21:08
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 9,319
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
An alternative in the vein of Sparx's suggestion.
Work your way to Bonaire via Curacao with your delivery/checkout skipper. Fly the family to Bonaire with the new watermaker and any parts that broke on the short passages. Hang in Bonaire for a few months - cruiser friendly, get the older kids dive certified and everyone into some easy snorkeling, easy provisioning, cheap rental cars, no big resorts.
You can use Marine warehouse to ship duty free from Miami into Curacao. There's a decent yard in Curacao. No airs to Curacao is an easy short sail.
Then make your decision as to where you want to head next with experience onboard with the whole crew. There is a storage yard in Curacao that can be used for hurricane season as an option.
__________________
Paul
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25-10-2018, 12:50
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Summer Europe Winter Florida
Boat: Dufour Nautitech435/FP Venezia42/Baltec Visiona 40/Catalac 10m used as a river cruiser
Posts: 183
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
At first I planned a long response to your questions. But akprb gave you the advice in the same thinking as mine. In short: go sailing and after some experiences made looke what you eg. your boat really needs.
Good luck
onavegador
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25-10-2018, 15:06
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#24
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, in Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 29,961
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
Quote:
Originally Posted by onavegador
At first I planned a long response to your questions. But akprb gave you the advice in the same thinking as mine. In short: go sailing and after some experiences made looke what you eg. your boat really needs.
Good luck
onavegador
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Not only the above, but also, from what I have seen so far in around 30 yrs. or so of cruising, is that re-fits ALWAYS cost more and take longer than planned. Your 2 yr. sabbatical sounds like a long time, looking forward to it, but far too many variables involved, both with weather and supplies to include a major re-fit. You won't get to have much fun.
Another issue is that if you have a 6 months old child aboard, with 5 more kids, there's going to be home schooling for the older ones, and child caretaking aboard. If you're counting on your wife to do all the family caretaking, and teaching, where on earth is HER vacation? Caretaking the kids at Disneyland, sounds like something she'd do for the kids, but where is her fun? Unless you plan on having a governess aboard, who is going to help you sail the boat? How will you handle overnight sails? Suppose the ones that haven't had chicken pox all come down with it at the same time? food poisoning? flu?
It's a lot to consider, of course, but you and she need a plan that will work for all of you under the stress of such a major change. Ime, it can be really scary trying to get away from bad weather day after day. One doesn't know if one will get there "in time" and getting to a safe harbor --with one's boat and one's kids-- you're afraid for the welfare of all. Often, we imagine everything going the way we want, and sometimes it does. ....and others, it doesn't. Please don't think this is personally motivated, it is just that my Jim taught me to ask this question? What can possibly go wrong? how likely is it? trying to think of some of those things for you.
Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
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25-10-2018, 23:07
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#25
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Eleuthera 60
Posts: 195
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
First, wow and thanks. I've been following quietly this forum for the last four years when we began to plan and shape our cruise. Back then we had two less children and thought the Hylas/SparkmanStephens 49 was our boat of choice. Two more kids settled us on cats and the debate still continues in our own home ;-) And on a Lagoon 'condo-maran' no less; a trip to the factory and time with seasoned blue water professional sailors swayed us toward our current compromise...volume/linear foot.
I'm honored to see some 'heavy hitters' of the CF having responded here, truly thank you.
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word 'sabbatical' as it does generally apply more to leisure than anything. Our intent is to unplug our children from our coastal southern Californian bubble and be free from our phones and Amazon Prime, etc. while meeting people where there at and exposing our kids to this great world.
We know our kids will get sick and that people die. A romantic view we do not have. Cautious optimism I think more expresses our demeanor.
My wife did enjoy the line about "where is her fun?", regarding the very real aspect of life being much more demanding aboard which she acknowledges...but still, she couldn't help but smile and wonder "where her fun" has been these last 9 years getting to this point; all smiles :-)
Your comments have prompted me to look into the real possibility of starting in the ABC's with the support of professional captains to help move the boat to and fro until we are a competent team and can reevaluate our position. Also worth mentioning, we have no intent of making any multi-day passage in the near future without bringing aboard extra local crew. Living aboard for a while does sit well with both of us before modifying the boat too unnecessarily; so kudos to those points.
Governess? This also may be a reality for certain regions; the toss-up here is that we opted for a 'smaller' boat for ease of handling and extra full time crew quarters aren't readily available...maybe we'll upsize if we like this lifestyle.
Before anyone asks, the boat is paid for and we have monthly income of US$5k after taxes plus 30% of the boat's purchase price in kitty (wish that were more). We enjoy living meager as a rule (good thing too, the US$9k annual boat insurance is a big hit).
And lastly, we enjoy asking and being asked worst-case-scenario questions. 15 years in the emergency field have made me comfortable with having/developing accountable and adaptable plans and contingencies.
So, what marina/yard in Curacao or Bonaire would suit us best for solar/battery/electrical needs? Hehehe.
Photo at the beginning of the scheme...
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26-10-2018, 09:06
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Abaco, Bahamas/ Western NC
Boat: Nothing large at the moment
Posts: 1,038
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparx
how about this plan:
1. Rent our house in California.
2. Road trip leisurely across the US after Christmas to Ft. Lauderdale where we have a private slip behind the home of a professional charter/delivery captain (who would also help bring the boat up).
3. Move family on board in Aruba. Go sailing. Island hop in a north bound direction.
4. After sailing a few months reevaluate upgrades required. Make priority upgrades that are convenient and cost effecive while continuing the cruise.
5. Get to North Carolina or Virginia for hurricane season 2019. Do major refit in New Bern or Deltaville per experience with the boat . Complete solar array, house bank, inverters, etc., enclosures, radar, biminis, H2O maker, etc. (lots I can do myself IF parts are available). Whatever is still left to do. Use Air B&B as required.
6. After refit head north to Maine for July August, and early September
7. Spend October in the Chesapeake, then in November return to the islands and finish sabatical.
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This makes the most sense!
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26-10-2018, 14:45
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 9,319
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
Quote:
Originally Posted by sv Stella Maris
.....
So, what marina/yard in Curacao or Bonaire would suit us best for solar/battery/electrical needs? ...
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Curacao Marine is the main marina with yard. There are subcontractors there, a chandlry and a storage yard. Not the greatest place to hang out as there is no swimming and you are out of town. Rental cars are cheap. Don't miss the Slave Muesum in town.
There is no anchoring allowed in Bonaire as all the waters are marine park. There are good low cost moorings in front of town. You are a 100ft from fun, shallow water snorkeling, zero ft from great diving. Provisioning is easy at full stocked high end grocery store, small chandlery, cheap rental cars to your the island, good parks and wild parrots for the kids.
There is a marina there, but being tied up isn't going to get you used to boat living. You can stay in Bonaire up to 90 days.
For more serious work that needs outside contractors then I'd head to Curacao. The trip between Bonaire and Curacao either direction is pretty easy. You don't get your 90 day limit in Bonaire reset when you leave and return.
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27-10-2018, 06:58
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Boat: 2018 Bayliner element
Posts: 567
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
Schooling for your children is a major issue in st Thomas.
Shipping and parts are no problem at all. Charter fleet supports major suppliers with local bases. Better than stateside.
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27-10-2018, 09:38
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Coastal Virginia
Boat: Maine Cat 38
Posts: 611
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
Stella Maris
I was so pleased to read your response, post #25.
I want to say that your overall concept, taking a large family with young kids for an extended cruise, is not crazy at all. The plan requires careful thought and planning, but I beleve you are up for it.
We sailed the Caribbean with four kids, youngest being six months of age when we set off. I think I have some empathy what you are in for. There will be times where you have to adapt. There will be times that are not fun. There may even be a few times that are flat out terrifying. Overall it will be better than great. It is extremely satisfying to listen to my now grown kids tell the stories from their treasure chest of memories. We would absolutely do it again.
When I set out my sailing resume sounded similar to yours. I am thinking you have some useful fundamentals and will learn fast from there. Having a good teaching captain on board for a short time is a good move. From there you can spend a lifetime continuing to learn.
Regarding the boat, you have chosen well. You mentioned a few upgrades ( solar array, house bank, inverters, etc., enclosures, radar, biminis, H2O maker). Here are my thoughts. You will recognize my own bias towards getting out there sailing .
Binimi: having sun and rain protection is a priority project. Buy a Sailrite sewing machine and the cloth, thread, snaps, clips, zippers, straps, and notions to build your bimini. Any tubing you need can probably be sources locally through out the Caribbean. A bimini is an easy project to complete at anchor. I would hang on to the Sailrite machine for at least a year, these things are incredibly useful.
Watermaker: Very nice to have, especially with a large crew. Get a portable water maker (Rain Man is one brand) that runs off the generator. If the generator is dicey, get a portable generator too. Upgrading the water maker goes on the list for a future refit.
Solar array, house bank, inverter: If the batteries are aged out replace them. Make sure there is a good battery charger on board that can be powered by the generator. The rest save for a couple of weeks planned downtime in a location with good access to parts and expertise. This job needs careful planning. There is lots to consider here, everything from solar panel selection to evaluating the existing wiring. Installation is not horribly complicated, but the boat will likely be torn apart for the duration. Meanwhile the generator will keep you running nicely for as many months as it takes to get ready for this install.
Radar: this would be last on my list, but I would want radar before going to Maine or doing a lot of coastal overnight sailing. Good subject for a well planned refit. Don't be surprised if this project grows to be replacement of chartplotter, adding AIS, upgrading autopilot. Definitely want to use the boat before getting serious about opening this door.
Best of luck with your plan.
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01-11-2018, 23:20
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#30
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Eleuthera 60
Posts: 195
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Re: Bad Idea? Starting our cruise in St. Thomas (ish) vs. Florida? 6 kids...ya
Hi All,
Updated plan after much discussion with the Admiral and investigation to the lot of your collective input.
So...
1. I fly from Aruba to California with family luggage/boat spares, rendezvous with professional captain and mate from the Virgin Islands to shake down the boat and sail with me to the Virgin Islands, ~500nm.
2. Spend a few days sailing through the US Virgin Islands (not stoping) to have a guided tour as it were, and be more familiar with the islands once my family is aboard.
3. Make an inventory of immediate needs for the boat. Fly back to California.
4. Fly back with the whole family a week or so later...luggage galore.
5. Start cruising/cutting our teeth on the Virgin Islands and surrounding area. (Planning/sourcing solar array/electrical/battery needs/water maker. At anchor/marina/ashore as needed to complete immediate work).
6. Make our way north through the Bahamas toward the US East Coast; location dependent on approaching hurricane season.
7. Travel up north to get remaining jobs done/see beautiful/historical eastern seaboard.
8. Head south November 2019 to the great beyond...
Eliminations: RV purchase, road trip from hell, stuck on a dock in untenable water Florida, dangerous passages with newbie/young crew (Aruba option), never-ending-ignorant-refit-vortex.
So, now what doesn't work? Viable marinas in the US Virgin Islands for solar/electrical??
Good Night!
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