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16-12-2019, 11:49
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#226
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sanford, FL
Boat: Gulfstar 63MY
Posts: 26
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CassidyNZ
If all the people captured in professionally shot travel programs had to be asked for permission before publishing, nobody would make travel programmes.
Imagine - “This is the biggest baseball stadium in America” , pan camera around a packed stadium. “OK, lets go get their permission”.
What about news footage - “The protest in downtown Hong Kong is gathering momentum, the crowd is expected to reach 200,000 by lunchtime . . . .” - pan camera over city square.
Is YouTube any different? 
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I've been a magazine editor/video producer/photographer for the last 40 years and there are rules about capturing and using images of people. First off, biggest difference is whether the image is being used for advertising or non-advertising (editorial) purposes. I get the argument that vloggers/bloggers are selling something, but under U.S. law (NOT the only law involved here), if you're creating something that is not a straight up product advertisement, it's editorial. If images are to be used for editorial purposes, and if you capture someone in public "in the act of being themselves," i.e., not specifically enacting a role given to them in a play or performance, then you do not need their permission to reproduce their image. This answers the question about a video where one pans the football stadium, but it also would apply to people you film in a market or on the street. There are many countries where this is not the case: Germany, Brazil, Spain, Switzerland and many others restrict what photographers can/can't capture and whether they can use images of other people without their permission. In general, the rule for photographers is to tread lightly and ask for permission if you intend to focus in on someone. This isn't always possible without "breaking the moment," and ruining the image you're trying to capture. My experience is that, these days, most people are so accustomed to being photographed, they don't really care ... and will often "photo bomb" videos by acting weird in front of the camera.
If you're camera shy (on a most wanted list somewhere or just don't want your spirit captured), stay away from cameras. If someone with a camera seems to be following/shooting you, it's perfectly proper to calmly say "I'd prefer you not photograph me." And by the way, given the quality of cell phone cameras these days, you're never really sure who's a professional who may be using/selling the images and who's not. I've seen a lot of amateurs with much bigger/showier rigs than I use, and I've used a cell phone to discretely capture images when I thought pulling out my camera would spook somebody.
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16-12-2019, 11:49
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#227
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Moderator Emeritus

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDangerz
I guess we certainly aren't most people!
We've had followers suggest (and offer to pay us) to start vlogging for years and we always respectfully suggest they use their extra cash to go live the lifestyle and watch their own videos instead of ours.
No different than years ago when we started a travel blog (mostly for us to remember the places we visited and friends/family to keep tabs on us) and we refused to put a "buy us a beer/taco" link on the site...
It just never feel right to us and also meant that we would suddenly be thinking/worrying more about those funding us and what they want than what we want.
Again, I cant blame the youtubers, it’s just not something we choose to do...
We don’t pay them as we prefer to use our own money to live the lifestyle rather than sitting at home and watching it on youtube, and we don’t film our lifestyle for others to pay for because it sounds too much like the jobs we worked so hard to leave behind! 
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So you are number 2 in spirit then....
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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16-12-2019, 11:52
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#228
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Boat: 42ft Moody Ketch
Posts: 643
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis
Most people want to be a film star.
Some people want to chronicle their boating life.
All people would like to be paid for it.
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There are a few bloggers out there that do not ask for a dime , they are just sharing their experience, (I watch them)
So why does my Daughters Utubers all young people getting 3 million hits and spending their time making their video's not asking for a patron tip , and people on boats feel the need that their videos warrant it and demand it , this ******** that we could not make these video's without your support crap , why not a $300 dollar camera and away you go. Then there is the exploitation of sex sells , and why would you want to show of your girlfriends body and plaster it on your first page, I wonder has she heard of women's rights and feminism, getting more hits because you have big Tits seems rather old fashioned and sad these days.
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16-12-2019, 13:24
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#229
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,075
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis
Most people want to be a film star.
Some people want to chronicle their boating life.
All people would like to be paid for it.
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I have honestly not met many movie-star wannabees while cruising.
Lots of us DO use video for friends and family. Being from the movie industry, my sailing videos get quite the post production treatment, but stay unpublished. That gives me free license to use any music I want and keep a bit of privacy.
The idea of then getting paid for polishing and publishing home videos comes up among some cruising friends... but often with a SIGNIFICANT reluctance to give up privacy for a few dollars. Maybe the starlet wannabees cruise elsewhere?
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16-12-2019, 13:47
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#230
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttex
Sounds like you want the kids to get off your lawn.
Yall crack me up.
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I’m with you.
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16-12-2019, 13:49
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#231
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the hard due to wife's medical condition.
Boat: Sold, alas, because life happens.
Posts: 1,829
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarian
... getting more hits because you have big Tits seems rather old fashioned and sad these days.
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Hmmm.. In the photo gallery on our CF home page there's an image of me relaxing on the aft deck, beer in hand, and (gasp) topless! Not a single person bothered to comment about my big tits. Maybe I should have brushed my hair?
As for the OP's original question: IMHO, technology, society and culture all change over time. Internet vloggers are just the latest iteration of evolution.
Some of us of a certain age remember that books were great, but magazines (like National Geographic) and motion pictures and television exposed us visually to the greater world outside our living rooms - and I would stipulate that that was good. What was that song from The Great War, which had a line about "How you gonna keep them down on the farm, after they've seen Paree?"
Heck, you can foam at the mouth and rant for "You kids get off my lawn!", like somebody else wrote further upstream, but face reality: you won't be able to roll back technology (video/audio recorders, the internet) nor stop people from using that technology as THEY deem fit. Case in point: Drunk drivers. How many years ago were the first laws enacted criminalizing that?
And that's my two cents.
James
'
__________________
"Being offended is not the same thing as being right." Dave Barry.
Laughter is the salve that keeps reality from scaring.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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16-12-2019, 13:54
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#232
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Janesville, WI
Boat: 1982 36' Trojan Tri-Cabin
Posts: 18
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
An interesting subject. I'm 51, and my wife and I will be retiring in the next 3-5 years, spending much of our time on an older, larger power boat, chartering her in what I call economy cruising. Yes it will be a business, not a huge money making business (but if you can incorporate yachting into a business that pays for itself, you have done something right), but one that will have a lot of video, some taken by us, much by the people who charter our boat. We will be living aboard, as I will be the Captain, with my wonderful wife as the first mate.
We will make sure rules are known about making sure all charter guests ask when they are places if 'others' are going to be in their videos. But at the same time, video is today, what the old camera used to be when it came to capturing vacation moments. I think that is kind of how it is the world around. Now of course these guests of ours, or paying patrons are not going to be in any private persons places, yachts, or what not, so I don't think they will ever have any of the issues mentioned, but forewarning is always a good idea.
I think it is the in your face without your permission kind of video that becomes an issue. Now while on board my vessel, outside your cabin, a majority of the vessel will be under surveillance video, but that falls under security video, and that is for the safety and security of my crew and patrons, as well as the security of the vessel from a seaworthiness stand point, and any other security standpoint. There will never be a time that I will not know when some on is trying to cause my vessel or someone on my vessel harm. Simply put, always be prepared. Video does not lie, nor does it take a break or sleep (on the job).
Video is a fun way to document any trip or voyage/cruise/vacation, whatever you are doing. It also helps you plan for the next one, and plan for what to do, and what NOT to do... So your next one is even better than your last one! Because that's what we want, to always make it better, right?
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16-12-2019, 14:08
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#233
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 52
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogscout
I'm just pissed off that they all film going to the market and call it Provisioning. Like its a special and important thing. Oooohh we are going Provisioning today, cone along and we will show you how.
Well that and swimming pigs. Cant stand swimming pigs.
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Just because you only discovered the word "provisioning" recently doesn't mean you should ridicule those who use it correctly. You don't "provision" for your dinner. You "provision" for a voyage. Maybe you haven't done any of those yet. If you have then you have also probably "bunkered"!
As for swimming pigs, don't go there then.
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16-12-2019, 14:27
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#234
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 566
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Pick your battles. This isn’t one of mine. Have been a long term full time cruiser for decades. Some people have plenty of or at least adequate funds. Others don’t. Especially if they started youngish. At 40 we needed income. When you cruise you either need special skills or be real inventive. I have a 100 ton Masters and and a Dive Master/Instructor certification. And USSailing instructor certification And My wife is an incredible cook. So we got into the crewed charter business. Only had to do it 2-3 months a year to make it all work. I think you tubing is a lot of work. I find some of them very interesting. Even if I've been to most of the places that they have. Look, you gotta do what you’ve gotta do. Having done complete refits on a couple of my boats, I have really enjoyed watching Uma go and grow. They were one of the hits of the recent boat show">London boat show. Good for them, they’ve earned it.
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16-12-2019, 18:19
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#235
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 4
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
If you think recording one's life in any way impacts yours, you're losers.
Stop being jealous and live your own life. If you don't like YT sailing channels - don't watch them. No law that says you have to.
We're already dealing with climate change without your tears raising sea levels even more.
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16-12-2019, 18:38
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#236
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: 1935 33' Falmouth Cutter
Posts: 51
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty
Many YouTube vloggers take their cameras into clearance offices, businesses, cafes, homes, special events and generally along the beach, street or wherever else they are, including their own and other people’s boats.
While I’m generally a live and let live person, I’m concerned that especially in places that are on the main cruising routes the proliferation of cameras and video are going to poison local relations with cruisers. Are all cruisers going to be considered business people making a living off poorer people? Do they get consent from every person they capture? Do they share their revenue?
The coral and fish and beaches and ocean and boats don’t care about being used to sell a product (the ‘reality show’ that many people seem determined to create). But what about all the people? Isn’t that exploitation? For those who personally document for themselves perhaps OK if not intrusive, but for the rest running Internet businesses I’m not OK.
The one time we mixed with a couple who have a relatively popular channel they casually asked if we’d mind to appear in their video. We said yes, we do mind and don’t want to be splashed across the Internet, they were surprised but respected it and put the cameras away.
I guess my desire for privacy is archaic.
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Thanks for bringing this up! Privacy is now a luxury, but we should demand it as a civil right. In many cultures (possibly the majority of cultures that aren't the US and Europe), everyone knows that it's rude to take a picture without consent. Hopefully, we are all getting a little more woke to personal boundaries and the need to ask permission before taking liberties with other people's rights.
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16-12-2019, 18:46
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#237
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: 1935 33' Falmouth Cutter
Posts: 51
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by themediadoctor
I've been a magazine editor/video producer/photographer for the last 40 years and there are rules about capturing and using images of people. First off, biggest difference is whether the image is being used for advertising or non-advertising (editorial) purposes. I get the argument that vloggers/bloggers are selling something, but under U.S. law (NOT the only law involved here), if you're creating something that is not a straight up product advertisement, it's editorial. If images are to be used for editorial purposes, and if you capture someone in public "in the act of being themselves," i.e., not specifically enacting a role given to them in a play or performance, then you do not need their permission to reproduce their image. This answers the question about a video where one pans the football stadium, but it also would apply to people you film in a market or on the street. There are many countries where this is not the case: Germany, Brazil, Spain, Switzerland and many others restrict what photographers can/can't capture and whether they can use images of other people without their permission. In general, the rule for photographers is to tread lightly and ask for permission if you intend to focus in on someone. This isn't always possible without "breaking the moment," and ruining the image you're trying to capture. My experience is that, these days, most people are so accustomed to being photographed, they don't really care ... and will often "photo bomb" videos by acting weird in front of the camera.
If you're camera shy (on a most wanted list somewhere or just don't want your spirit captured), stay away from cameras. If someone with a camera seems to be following/shooting you, it's perfectly proper to calmly say "I'd prefer you not photograph me." And by the way, given the quality of cell phone cameras these days, you're never really sure who's a professional who may be using/selling the images and who's not. I've seen a lot of amateurs with much bigger/showier rigs than I use, and I've used a cell phone to discretely capture images when I thought pulling out my camera would spook somebody.
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You have described some of the laws that regulate or prohibit photography, and a bit about asking permission to photograph a stranger (where I come from, we call that common courtesy), but then you end it with how you use hidden means to take pictures when you know that you are violating someone's space and right to privacy.
What gives you that right? I always wonder what would happen if I spit on the people who tell me that I'm pretty, or ask me a retarded question about capturing my spirit or being on the lam. What would you think if I spit on you? I can do that. It's not illegal. It's rude, and if I asked you if I could spit in your face, you'd probably say No. But since I *can* do it, *should* I do it? It would make me feel a lot better about some creeper taking my photo.
So please tell me what gives you the right to TAKE somebody's photo without their consent.
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16-12-2019, 22:15
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#238
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,634
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Fox
Thanks for bringing this up! Privacy is now a luxury, but we should demand it as a civil right. In many cultures (possibly the majority of cultures that aren't the US and Europe), everyone knows that it's rude to take a picture without consent. Hopefully, we are all getting a little more woke to personal boundaries and the need to ask permission before taking liberties with other people's rights.
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Agreed. As I said earlier, it's just common decency to ask prior permission if you are imaging a person or persons in a personal context. It's fine if people are part of a broader backdrop, and especially if we're dealing with public spaces. But if the focus of the image or video is an actual person, then it is rude, and may in fact be illegal, to "take" an image without asking.
As a former (and still sometimes) journalist, I appreciate that some moments do happen spontaneously, and that prior permission is sometimes hard to achieve. In these cases I have always sought permission as soon as possible, and if the subject says no, then that's the end of the file.
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16-12-2019, 22:25
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#239
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 25
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Fox
You have described some of the laws that regulate or prohibit photography, and a bit about asking permission to photograph a stranger (where I come from, we call that common courtesy), but then you end it with how you use hidden means to take pictures when you know that you are violating someone's space and right to privacy.
What gives you that right? I always wonder what would happen if I spit on the people who tell me that I'm pretty, or ask me a retarded question about capturing my spirit or being on the lam. What would you think if I spit on you? I can do that. It's not illegal. It's rude, and if I asked you if I could spit in your face, you'd probably say No. But since I *can* do it, *should* I do it? It would make me feel a lot better about some creeper taking my photo.
So please tell me what gives you the right to TAKE somebody's photo without their consent.
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Your out in the world in the public sphere. You should have the right to demand privacy in YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY, and it would indeed be rude if someone singled you out on the street without permission for a photo. But if your out in the world among other people out in the world and you end up in a picture well that just too bad. Life will go on. How can you demand a right to privacy in public. PLease dont tell me about your personal property. That is always yours and always private. But you, the light reflecting off your body into my eyes and camera lens is not private. That is public light and if you dont want to refract it then your going to need to live in a dungeon.
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17-12-2019, 00:24
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#240
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
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Re: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?
This discussion sometimes takes on the surreality of an Alice in Wonderland moment.......
.....The mad haters angry that Alice likes the fluffy rabbit yet has trouble sizing her up in a way that would convince her.
Live and let live smiles the Cheshire Cat, as the March Hare spits up a hair ball.
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