Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?

[sailorboy1]

Debating restaurant tipping on a cruising forum

Oh well you guys have at.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The research I've read on the subject agrees with you Mac. Financial bonuses, while not inconsequential, are quite a ways down on the list of motivators of workers. I suppose a combination of approaches, as Pelagic outlines, is probably the best approach.

Employing the right people from the start is the answer imho.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Debating restaurant tipping on a cruising forum

Oh well you guys have at.

Seems like part of the cruising exchange of information is about discussing different regional habits with thier Pros and Cons.
But I guess you know it all already![emoji4]
....

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The research I've read on the subject agrees with you Mac. Financial bonuses, while not inconsequential, are quite a ways down on the list of motivators of workers. I suppose a combination of approaches, as Pelagic outlines, is probably the best approach.

Research?
LOL.
The waitstaff at a modest LA restaurant (where a family member works) gets $11/hr plus tips. This is the same minimum wage as any other LA job that does not get tips. THE favorite time of night is when the tips get distributed. This is THE motivation for many, as they can more than double the day's pay. The sad truth is that not too many people dream of a career serving and cleaning up for other people (without white linens anyway). Most are there for the money. Some nights it's very busy and all that extra work creates a big end of night bonus. Cause and effect.
Not one of those people would wish for the Australia model without tips. (OZ ave US$14-17/hr)
How do I know? I asked each one of them tonight. Lots of laughter.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by cyan

Research?
LOL.
The waitstaff at a modest LA restaurant (where a family member works) gets $11/hr plus tips. This is the same minimum wage as any other LA job that does not get tips. THE favorite time of night is when the tips get distributed. This is THE motivation for many, as they can more than double the day's pay. The sad truth is that not too many people dream of a career serving and cleaning up for other people (without white linens anyway). Most are there for the money. Some nights it's very busy and all that extra work creates a big end of night bonus. Cause and effect.
Not one of those people would wish for the Australia model without tips. (OZ ave US$14-17/hr)
How do I know? I asked each one of them tonight. Lots of laughter.

Australia has very good penalty rates which improve wages quite abit.

[valhalla360]

Problem with the US tipping system is it doesn't matter how good or bad the service. If you don't tip 20%, you are made out to be some evil horrible person because that person depends on tips...of course, if it's not about service quality, then it offers no advantage.

Also, the tip comes when you receive the bill. At that point, you tip has no impact on how good the service is unless it's a restaurant you frequent often and the staff know you.

And as highlighted by someone else, even at not so fancy restaurants, people can make really good money at a $2.13/hr job. 30yr ago, my wife would figure around $200 on a friday or saturday night at red lobster.

Don't even get started on taxing tips...pretty much no one pays taxes on the full tip amounts. Unless it's on a credit card statement, expect a good portion not to show up when they pay their income tax.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by cyan

Research?
LOL.
The waitstaff at a modest LA restaurant (where a family member works) gets $11/hr plus tips. This is the same minimum wage as any other LA job that does not get tips. THE favorite time of night is when the tips get distributed. This is THE motivation for many, as they can more than double the day's pay. The sad truth is that not too many people dream of a career serving and cleaning up for other people (without white linens anyway). Most are there for the money. Some nights it's very busy and all that extra work creates a big end of night bonus. Cause and effect.
Not one of those people would wish for the Australia model without tips. (OZ ave US$14-17/hr)
How do I know? I asked each one of them tonight. Lots of laughter.

The research I was referencing here was in regards to financial incentives offered to more affluent positions, not low-payed restaurant staff.

The research I cited specifically to do with restaurant servers addressed the question of whether tipping correlates to better service. It does not -- at least that was the conclusion of the meta study which looked at a whole bunch of studies.

I don't doubt low-payed people are motivated by the prospect of receiving more money. No one can live decently at $11/hr, so naturally additional tips are valued. The point many of us are making, and what most of the rest of the developed world has realized, is this is a terrible way to pay workers.

As Valhalla says, in most cases these the so-called "tip" we all dutifully pay at North American restaurants are not really tips. They are an expected part of the bill. That's because this system of underpaying servers has become institutionalized. To not tip is to deprive these people of basic income.

Since tipping is only weakly correlated to better service, a far better solution is to simply pay people a decent wage, and get rid of tipping all together. This is how most of the rest of the developed world operates in their hospitality industries.

[atoll]

here is an idea!
how about putting all politicians on minumum wage,then at the end of the tax year when you pay your taxes,you can add a tip for good service.......

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by atoll

here is an idea!
how about putting all politicians on minumum wage,then at the end of the tax year when you pay your taxes,you can add a tip for good service.......

But how would they pay back the taxpayers when everyone gives them a negative tip? .

Actually, your idea is pretty smart. It's amazing how much people start to care and empathize with others when they have to live in their world. For example, try supporting a family on $11/hr, and then tell me why all people don't deserve to make a living wage.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

This comment really indicates to me that you are uninformed on this subject (and is bordering on racist instead of factual).



I already posted an answer to this question earlier, since both privately and professionally I am quite informed regarding the high end and fine dining part of the industry.

I’m uninformed? You don’t even know what the word “racist” means lol. Hint, it not anyone you disagree with.


Despite your poor grasp of basic words, please name off some michelin star places where you don’t tip and lets figure a percent out

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's amazing how much people start to care and empathize with others when they have to live in their world. For example, try supporting a family on $11/hr, and then tell me why all people don't deserve to make a living wage.

In my example at this paper-napkin restaurant, they all make in the neighborhood of $25/hr because of tips. This "terrible way to pay" is much appreciated by those who receive the pay. On a really busy night, they all put in extra hustle to ensure customers get the same hot food and good service that they would on a slow rainy night. It's quite the scene. This extra effort results in extra pay. (more tips from more happy customers) Harder work + more pay = bigger smiles. Under-estimating such human incentive might be the most patronizing approach of those who advocate no tipping.

More on-topic, this particular wait staff often jokes about the selfies and the food pictures. At least once a week, a YouTube or Instagram "influencer" rolls in and declares that they should receive discounted or free food because of a large subscriber count. It always seems to result in an annoying scene for the other patrons with staging of pictures and annoying live streaming and recording. I'm sure some customers are asking themselves: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

I’m uninformed? You don’t even know what the word “racist” means lol. Hint, it not anyone you disagree with.


Despite your poor grasp of basic words, please name off some michelin star places where you don’t tip and lets figure a percent out

Yes you are uninformed, and unfortunately your comments only serve to confirm this, and other things.

Of the 2,817 restaurants in the world with Michelin stars, France alone boasts of 600, followed by Japan and Italy.

For a start, pick any of the 600.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by cyan

In my example at this paper-napkin restaurant, they all make in the neighborhood of $25/hr because of tips. This "terrible way to pay" is much appreciated by those who receive the pay. On a really busy night, they all put in extra hustle to ensure customers get the same hot food and good service that they would on a slow rainy night. It's quite the scene. This extra effort results in extra pay. (more tips from more happy customers) Harder work + more pay = bigger smiles. Under-estimating such human incentive might be the most patronizing approach of those who advocate no tipping.

More on-topic, this particular wait staff often jokes about the selfies and the food pictures. At least once a week, a YouTube or Instagram "influencer" rolls in and declares that they should receive discounted or free food because of a large subscriber count. It always seems to result in an annoying scene for the other patrons with staging of pictures and annoying live streaming and recording. I'm sure some customers are asking themselves: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?

Hi Cyan, you mentioned ozzie wait staff make approx $17 usd/hr, well that's approx $25aud not including tips and even though it's not part the Australian culture there still are tips, this dosent include penalty rates like time and half on Sundays, Saturday afternoons and public holidays. Remember Australians spend Australian dollars and the exchange rate changes ,in 2011 that $25 aud was $27 usd!

My point is theres no real tipping culture in Australia because wages are very high, as a ex employer I can say this is true ,particularly when you add 9% superannuation and 4.5% workers comp that the employer pays as well.

I dont tip, I will when in the states as the wages suck.

Also something else that bothers me is the expectation of tipping. Quite a few times in a variety of countries when I'm paying by credit card they ask what would you like me to enter sir? I dont like being put in that situation, I say " the price that is on the docket", also I've come across a tip being automatically included.

I've just docked at shelter bay marina Panama, it's not particularly cheap. At the end of the paperwork you get asked to pay a 1.5% tip ,tick the box yes no or maybe, I dont like this, if you tick no your the tight arse that refuses to tip and I wonder if that effects the service? If I tip I want it to be my choice to volunteer a tip at the end of my stay, not guilted into it.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by cyan

In my example at this paper-napkin restaurant, they all make in the neighborhood of $25/hr because of tips. This "terrible way to pay" is much appreciated by those who receive the pay. On a really busy night, they all put in extra hustle to ensure customers get the same hot food and good service that they would on a slow rainy night. It's quite the scene. This extra effort results in extra pay. (more tips from more happy customers) Harder work + more pay = bigger smiles. Under-estimating such human incentive might be the most patronizing approach of those who advocate no tipping.

As I keep saying, the research indicates that, at very best, there is a weak correlation between tips and quality of service. I'm sure your paper-napkin restaurant is somehow unique or special, but this doesn't change the overall reality.

But since according to you these people are already getting paid $25/hr, I assume you'd have no objection to paying these people this amount, and simply cutting out the tips. Go talk to your hypothetical servers. Ask them what they would rather see: a guaranteed salary of $25/hr, or an uncertain $25/hr based on the kindness of strangers.

Human behavioral science finds that money is generally a poor motivator of performance. Of course if people are desperate (as in trying to love on $11/hr), they will have no choice but to chase more cash, but motivational science indicates you get more out of people by treating them well, by providing them autonomy in their job, and by making them a real part of the business team. Better salary + job independence = better work.

Originally Posted by cyan

More on-topic, this particular wait staff often jokes about the selfies and the food pictures. At least once a week, a YouTube or Instagram "influencer" rolls in and declares that they should receive discounted or free food because of a large subscriber count. It always seems to result in an annoying scene for the other patrons with staging of pictures and annoying live streaming and recording. I'm sure some customers are asking themselves: Are YouTubers wrecking it for the rest of us?

This is incredibly annoying. I only heard about such things a little while ago. Seriously ... who are these idiots who think just b/c they have a bunch of virtual friends, that they somehow deserve a free lunch. What's the world coming to .

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by daletournier

...My point is theres no real tipping culture in Australia because wages are very high, ... I dont tip, I will when in the states as the wages suck.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by daletournier

Also something else that bothers me is the expectation of tipping. Quite a few times in a variety of countries when I'm paying by credit card they ask what would you like me to enter sir? I dont like being put in that situation, I say " the price that is on the docket", also I've come across a tip being automatically included.

I've just docked at shelter bay marina Panama, it's not particularly cheap. At the end of the paperwork you get asked to pay a 1.5% tip ,tick the box yes no or maybe, I dont like this, if you tick no your the tight arse that refuses to tip and I wonder if that effects the service? If I tip I want it to be my choice to volunteer a tip at the end of my stay, not guilted into it.

And that's the real point. In most cases tips are no longer gratuities added on for exceptional service. They are an expected part of the bill. A tip for service beyond the norm is great. But in places where tipping has replaced paid wages it is no longer an actual tip. It is a necessary part of the servers' income.