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Old 20-08-2019, 09:55   #1
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Where to register if I am a hippie!

Hello!

A little bit of background:
I am 28 years old, argentinian born but also have Italian citizenship and therefore passport. I have worked in oil tankers, yachting, and never paid any taxes anywhere. I have no address, I mean I guess in Argentina, that is what my passport says anyway, but I havent lived there in years. I kinda lived last time in Spain, but I dont have residency there, nor in Italy.

I want to go next year to the Caribbean and buy a sailboat, around 32' for a general budget of 15000 usd, where should I register it?? Does taxes have anything to do with it? I want to cruise the Caribbean (excluding USA). I havent found anyone with my problem so no answers. I dont feel I belong to any country so I wouldnt mind to flag it in Jupiter, I just want to cruise freely without being detained. I have the money, and the qualifications, I just dont know a thing about this topic. People have told me the logic thing would be to flag in Italy, but I dont have residency there, just passport, I have barely set foot in there actually... In Argentina is a mess even to order a BigMac, let alone register a freaking boat, so I want to avoid that flag. Also, I dont want to found a fake company to flag it in Cayman, nor I want to pay crazy annual fees.


Any ideas for this outcast?? Thanks!
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Old 20-08-2019, 10:08   #2
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

Two weeks ago, I met an Argentinian guy, in Panama, who has a Halberg Rassy 30 ft (I guess) for sale for 11500 US$ (needs a little bit of work). The boat is on the hard in the Caribbean side of Panama. He might be able to give you some advice.
if you are interested, send me your email address by PM and I'll put you in contact with him.
Good luck
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Old 20-08-2019, 10:09   #3
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

England has new regulations for flagging small boats, you can't go wrong with the red duster on the stern.......there was a detailed discussion resentlly, just search for it....
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Old 20-08-2019, 10:21   #4
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scargo View Post
Two weeks ago, I met an Argentinian guy, in Panama, who has a Halberg Rassy 30 ft (I guess) for sale for 11500 US$ (needs a little bit of work). The boat is on the hard in the Caribbean side of Panama. He might be able to give you some advice.
if you are interested, send me your email address by PM and I'll put you in contact with him.
Good luck
Wow thanks! federikolarosa@hotmail.com
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Old 20-08-2019, 10:23   #5
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

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Originally Posted by nwdiver View Post
England has new regulations for flagging small boats, you can't go wrong with the red duster on the stern.......there was a detailed discussion resentlly, just search for it....
Cool, but I dont have anything to do with England, wouldnt it be an issue? Maybe the only relation it is that I am also EU citizen (again, not resident), but that is until brexit I guess
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Old 20-08-2019, 10:54   #6
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

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Originally Posted by federikolarosa View Post
Cool, but I dont have anything to do with England, wouldnt it be an issue? Maybe the only relation it is that I am also EU citizen (again, not resident), but that is until brexit I guess
Have a look at the UK registration requirements.

https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectio...20THE%20UK.pdf

it's says this in there, but I may have missed some details

"Where the owner or owners are not resident in the UK, the boat may only be registered if a representative person, or company resident or incorporated in the UK is appointed."

also see this about the BVIs, from 2017 so it might be dated

https://nomadcapitalist.com/2017/07/...-registration/

and this has some pertinent info, but again, things are changing rapidly

British Yacht Registration - Yacht Registrations | Yacht Registrations

"British Registration – Advantages:
The following are a number of the advantages of British registration.

Reliability and security.
Skippers need not have certificates of competency.
Confidentiality can be maintained as the owner need not appear on the records of the Comp.
Conclusive proof of title.
Mortgages are easier to obtain.
Various tax advantages.


Entitlement – The persons entitled to be owners of British Flag vessels are:

British nationals
Citizens of the European Union
Companies incorporated in jurisdictions which are subject to UK laws, and have principal places of business in these locations
Non-British nationals can make use of companies registered in one of British dominions to own their vessels as only British persons can own British registered yachts. The vessels can then be registered in the names of their companies, with the owners or their nominees holding all the shares in the Company."
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Old 20-08-2019, 17:00   #7
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Where to register if I am a hippie!

Quote:
Originally Posted by federikolarosa View Post
Cool, but I dont have anything to do with England, wouldnt it be an issue? Maybe the only relation it is that I am also EU citizen (again, not resident), but that is until brexit I guess

Were not resident in the UK either. We registered on the UK part 1 ship register via Jersey www.ports.je/shipsregistry and paid for an official agent to be our representative person (local contact). Jersey has wider eligibility that includes EU citizens. Ownership of our boat has nothing to do with the UK.
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Old 20-08-2019, 17:01   #8
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

This is the third thread on the same topic started by the same new member in the last few weeks!
He's obviously not happy with the responses on the previous two.
It brings to mind the old saying about "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results".
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Old 20-08-2019, 17:48   #9
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

Good day, federikolarosa,

A very long time ago, we knew a couple from Mozambique, who were residents in South Africa, and who's boat was registered in Sri Lanka. Sorry, I've no idea whatsoever how they arranged that! And it was prior to the year 2,000.

Some small nations may allow you to register your boat there, I'd look at Vanuatu. I think that since 9/11, most nations, even the small ones, have tightened up their restrictions for vessel registration, so it will be a chore to find out what you get to choose from.

Generally, registering a yacht does involve handling red tape, and so does checking into and out of countries. If this is too much hassle for you, you might want to re-think things.

Ann
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Old 20-08-2019, 18:27   #10
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

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Originally Posted by federikolarosa View Post
Cool, but I dont have anything to do with England, wouldnt it be an issue? Maybe the only relation it is that I am also EU citizen (again, not resident), but that is until brexit I guess
As posted on one or more of your previous threads on the same subject: residency has nothing to do with registration.
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Old 20-08-2019, 20:18   #11
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

The fact you were born in Argentina is irrelevant if your only citizenship is Italian.
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Old 20-08-2019, 20:20   #12
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Generally, registering a yacht does involve handling red tape, and so does checking into and out of countries. If this is too much hassle for you, you might want to re-think things.
By this do you mean, he could sail around without registering, his boat having no flag at all?
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Old 20-08-2019, 20:24   #13
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
As posted on one or more of your previous threads on the same subject: residency has nothing to do with registration.
More precisely,

Many flagging countries do not care about your citizenship, nor current residence arrangement.

Perhaps you meant that about the new UK rules?

There certainly are many countries, that only allow their citizens to use their flag. Both that issue, and the residency one will vary country by country.
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Old 20-08-2019, 20:26   #14
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
This is the third thread on the same topic started by the same new member in the last few weeks!
By giving a more relevant title, and providing more information in the OP, the odds are better someone - maybe a lurker as most visitors are - with a good answer will notice and help out.
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Old 20-08-2019, 20:45   #15
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Re: Where to register if I am a hippie!

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Originally Posted by federikolarosa View Post
I have no address, I mean I guess in Argentina, that is what my passport says anyway, but I havent lived there in years. I kinda lived last time in Spain, but I dont have residency there, nor in Italy.
Italy will not care about where in the world you are, that is certainly the first country you should research, then also the UK.

Of course you will need to establish an address - perhaps in Italy would be best - with a mail forwarding service for bureaucratic purposes, insurance, taxes etc.

If you don't get good info here, try other sailing forums, or just start contacting the relevant country authorities. Or save yourself a lot of work by using a lawyer specializing in such matters.

This one in Florida http://amrl.com/attorney/catherine-kent/
has been recommended by many members over the years.

Being a hippie or outcast are not the right words. You are a globe-trotting nomad, but do not rub that in the face of (or even reveal that to) any bureaucrats, especially the "never paid any taxes anywhere" part, like a red flag to a bull. Try to appear like a normal land-based tax-paying citizen who happens to be spending some time overseas at the moment.

Start off with, "I am an Italian, currently in Tortola (or whatever), am purchasing a yacht here, and looking for a good jurisdiction to use for registry/flagging purposes".

Find out what the first-year taxes and fees are, any other requirements pertaining to your situation, and of course most importantly the subsequent annual costs.

Do not be surprised if the up-front investment is high compared to your purchase price, as long as it works out cheap over 10-20 years or however long you plan to own the boat.

This service is usually only cheap for normal people, starting out in their home country, and in many places not even then.
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