when to take the plunge?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by gamayun

This certainly caught my eye, Wolfgal. I won't turn this into a "how men and women are different" thread because we know where that always leads, but it is likely that fear of the unknown and failure loom large as the reasons why it is so hard for women to make such life altering decisions. It certainly was for me. Whenever I tried to think 5 steps ahead (such as step 1: buy boat....step 5: deliver boat from San Diego to San Francisco), it would literally shut me down and I could not even proceed to step 1. I had to push through the future fear with the idea that I would somehow figure it out. Just buying a boat is a HUGE step and it is extremely hard to overcome the concern that you might not know everything that you need to know in making this decision. As I said earlier, sometimes you just have to jump off the cliff and trust that you do have the wherewithal to eventually figure out those things that not currently figure-outable. Good luck

Ive watched this with an ex business partner, always waiting for all the lights to be green before he makes a move, this paralyzed him because all the lights were never green at the same time.

Im a big believer in "life rewards action" it dosen’t always workout exactly as you planned but different isnt always worse. The courage to make a decision and take action isnt always easy BUT nothings permanent, you can always correct or change on the way, moving and correcting is better than stagnating.

Btw Wofgal, have you considered a Freedom like Gamayun's? theres many different models, Im a big fan, i think they are often underated, easy to single hand. The 28 & 33 (35) ketches are shallow draft.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

that said, i do not feel comfortable yet being on my own with a long to-do list. this is one of the reasons for which i'm searching for a small-ish boat in very good condition. my goal is to avoid being completely overwhelmed... while getting to know the boat and building my confidence under sail.

its not so easy to find a boat that is big on the inside (so to be a comfortable live-aboard) yet small on the outside... my feeling is that i need to go down a few feet and sacrifice a bit of comfort. i got claustrophobic after a few days on a 26', less so in a 27'. is the 28' that caught my eye too small? need to find out

But there's another side to that, too. If you discover, after your initial intro period, that the boat is too small for comfortable living... you'll be faced with more decisions about that, too. Keep it and be uncomfortable? Move up and lose a little on the sale of this one? Et cetera.

You don't need to be able to do everything yourself on day one. In fact, you don't ever need to know how to do everything yourself; there can still be jobs you hire... often being those that might hurt you, require special skill or special tools, etc.... even after 20-30 years of ownership.

In the meantime, though, you could decide to build on what you know, expand your abilities from there. And those abilities are largely boat-size-agnostic; fixing X on a 29' boat is pretty similar to fixing X on a 32' boat. Sometimes even harder on the smaller boat, due to access issues.

(An aside: I didn't know how to do much of anything, with our first boat. Even now, if I have to do some maintenance, I often still have to start by first learning the jargon involved with that particular trade -- plumbing, electric, whatever -- before I can even understand the instructions.)

Starting with a boat in very good condition is of course a good idea. That said, you know boat bits will break, need fixing, need replacement, need service... no matter what the original condition is. If you'll be living aboard, you'll benefit from being as comfortable as you can make it; sort of a pay-back (sometimes in advance) for the various maintenance and service work you'll be learning. Starting with a boat that's right for long-term living would be, in my mind, a better investment.

Easy for me to spend your money.

Originally Posted by wolfgal

so yes, above and beyond the fears involved in knowing that i do not yet have the knowledge i need to do most everything on my own..., there are those fears that are clearly obstacles standing between me and my boat:
Step 1. buy the boat
Step 2. de-flag/re-flag, paperwork, boat passport, more paperwork, oh i need another timbre fiscal? and how can i provide this paper to get that one, but need that one to get this one? and so, what is this one for again? Shutdown!

Basic project management can be a learned skill, and you've already got s atart with your Step 1 and Step 3.

Shouldn't be intimidating (although admittedly this might be a left brain/right brain thing.) List all the steps you can think of. Put them in order. Add steps you forgot. Put them in order.

Look at the "difficult" entries (like your Step 2). Break those down into smaller steps. Put those in order. Keep doing that, ad infinitum.

Prioritize: things like safety steps first (1,2,3 etc,) , cosmetic steps (a,b,c, etc.) later... and so forth.

And in the meantime, start doing step 1 and start preparing for step 2. Finish 1, start 2, and start prepping for 3. Finish 2, start 3, prep for a. Finish 3, start a, prep for 5. Keep doing that, ad infinitum. ("Prepping" may be setting about learning how to do a given task.)

Budget (how much $$) and schedule (how much time) for each -- and for the overall -- should track along there too, and that can add some complexity but... when it's your project, you can decide where to be elastic when. It can be pretty easy to wait to start uncritical step 352 (or whatever) until you have the money or the time to fool with it.

Pretty soon you can look back and see all the stuff you did... that wasn't really all that hard... and you can see where you will have come from doing all that.

Easy for me to organize your chores.


Chris

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

please do tell me how you knew when you were ready to buy the sailboat

Jim did the actual purchasing, an experienced boat owner. What he did was to make up a list of deal killers and desired features, and we went with the list of items. Brokers' reactions were varying, from "Get out of here, you're wasting my time!" I was quite taken aback. But one guy said, "I don't have anything right now, but I can take you to see some boats I know you don't want, but I want to hear what you say about that. And we said, fine, in over a few days, he learned how we thought about the boats he showed us. And if I ever have to sell this boat, I'd seek him out in a flash, and cant think how many folks I've given his name to. So, at first see people who have boats for sale, or look at for sale by owner boats, and learn how you'll look at boats. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...1-a-78671.html

Don't worry about not loving the boat at first: my experience is that they teach you to trust them, or not, love follows trust, ime. Not loving it initially is not a problem. You wouldn't pick a husband at first look, either. Be as careful as you like, it's your risk, your choice.

You will learn by confronting your fears. Ignore landlubbers who try to manipulate you, they are looking after their interests, not yours, divert your attention to your own goals.

If you seek the healing the ocean has to offer, you must go sailing and contemplate. Perhaps, that's the divine dance Boatie mentioned. Celebrate your victories, your learnings, make your self-talk positive.

Ann

[wolfgal]

so much kindness and support coming from everyone

i really cannot tell you how much all of these messages help!

let's see, i do not have new news to give for the moment, but i have been moving on a few things. it has been very helpful, very reassuring to read and re-read these responses. it is true that the landlubbers around me are no help. they make me feel as if i am being irresponsible, as if i'm not capable, as if it just cannot work. i avoid them, avoid a lot of people now... being isolated doesn't help. this is the reason for which this CF community is so helpful. i thank you for the lifeline.

yet, right now though... right now, i have two long translations to finish (am under pressure to meet my deadlines). one is a contemporary art piece, a scenario entrenched in political unrest and existential questions. (i need to research who the political thinker was who suggested that the "leader" who actually wins the vote best leaves his seat vacant - that this is a true democracy...). although not easy, it would be a wonderful text to translate aboard my boat!

the other, i've barely begun and is based on the story of king arthur and emmeline and a tree.... not quite as deep.

oh dear, not a sailboat insight. ok, i must buckle down a bit. will be back!

[coopec43]

The Clock of Life.

[Quebramar]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

so much kindness and support coming from everyone () it has been very helpful, very reassuring to read and re-read these responses. it is true that the landlubbers around me are no help. they make me feel as if i am being irresponsible, as if i'm not capable, as if it just cannot work. i avoid them, avoid a lot of people now...

After this post I was curious about your background given the translation work, and noticed all the accreditation you accumulated, together with the experience also. I see no objective reason to fear, but yes feelings are there without asking permission to enter.

Organising all what’s to be done in a structured plan helps significantly reduce stress, especially if the short term actions are baby steps. For emotions, I have successfully applied with many people the pros/cons, great/tough etc classification, dealing with each of them: weighing off each of them against the other, in order to name the elephant in the room. If it is too big to deal with, one can break it down in pieces (plan) or if it is about fear etc, identify the mitigation action that can lower its negative effect.

In the pro’s, I tend to list all the things that boost my energy and enhances my self-perception. I don’t let the con’s undermine me but work on them if they can be either toxic or have a negative impact on any decision. Nothing easy though.

As much as one can be alone with the boat, my experience so far as an introvert is that common passion brings sailors together, thus not leaving one alone against own will. Whether technical issue or navigation question or ... or ... I have always found real openness and joy of sharing and warm welcome, and not only on the web. «*Dare to try*» can be a good motto.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

...let's see, i do not have new news to give for the moment, but i have been moving on a few things. it has been very helpful, very reassuring to read and re-read these responses. it is true that the landlubbers around me are no help. they make me feel as if i am being irresponsible, as if i'm not capable, as if it just cannot work. ...

Funny… this line, and you being a translator, reminded me of an event from early on in my boat ownership life.

I had just arrived at my destination marina after my first multi-day journey. After failing to start my engine I ended up getting towed into the marina. Of course, I had no idea why the engine wouldn’t start, so I called a local mechanic. Turns out the problem was painfully easy to solve .

The mechanic was this older fella who’d spent his life around boats. I was feeling pretty embarrassed, and kind of defeated. But he didn’t laugh at my ineptitude. He kept reassuring me that anyone can learn the skills needed to maintain their own boats.

“It’s not that hard,” he kept saying.

After a few more very basic questions from me though, he cocked his head and finally asked: “So son, what do you do?”

“Me? I’m a writer,” says I, now feeling rather confident.

His reassuring smile melted away and shifted to a concerned frown.

“Oh... well then, you’re in trouble.”

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Funny… this line, and you being a translator, reminded me of an event from early on in my boat ownership life.

I had just arrived at my destination marina after my first multi-day journey. After failing to start my engine I ended up getting towed into the marina. Of course, I had no idea why the engine wouldn’t start, so I called a local mechanic. Turns out the problem was painfully easy to solve .

The mechanic was this older fella who’d spent his life around boats. I was feeling pretty embarrassed, and kind of defeated. But he didn’t laugh at my ineptitude. He kept reassuring me that anyone can learn the skills needed to maintain their own boats.

“It’s not that hard,” he kept saying.

After a few more very basic questions from me though, he cocked his head and finally asked: “So son, what do you do?”

“Me? I’m a writer,” says I, now feeling rather confident.

His reassuring smile melted away and shifted to a concerned frown.

“Oh... well then, you’re in trouble.”

Who, among us, has never done something foolish or ignorant? Not terribly encouraging, but you still can learn stuff 5 yr. olds on farms learn. Being bright, and facile with language does not somehow make you unable to learn simple trouble shooting. Think about the thousands of women who learned mechanical trades during WWII. I hope you told yourself, on the effect of "Woo hoo! I/we just completed a multiday journey, and we ruddy well loved it, eh?" That's the sort of positive self talk I meant.

"As much as one can be alone with the boat, my experience so far as an introvert is that common passion brings sailors together, thus not leaving one alone against own will. Whether technical issue or navigation question or ... or ... I have always found real openness and joy of sharing and warm welcome, and not only on the web. «*Dare to try*» can be a good motto."

My experience is more along Quebramar's lines. Cruisers will give you space to work (doesn't matter if it is translation work--what a neat way to learn about other cultures), any work. You can drop by in the dinghy for a chat, you won't be invited aboard if they're working on something, UNLESS they WANT company, so you know you're welcome. Or you drop by on the way to the mercado, on a shore trip. Think very flexible. A cuppa or drinks at or around sunset are common, but everyone will respect your right to work. People with kids often have a schooling schedule, and you learn not to bother them till noon or after. You will easily be able to titrate your socialization dose, and the closer to the end of the road you get, the friendlier folks are. All the travelers you meet in the smaller boats (24-30 ft) are there because they want to be. For them it is not about status. There is support for a frugal life: they want it to be fulfilling. You can get together on the beach for nibbles and chat, or food and music made together.
One guy once brought bag pipes, and had to go 1/2 mi. away to stride along the water's edge!

Take your time, meditate, pay attention to your dreams, put it out in the universe that you are now ready for your sailing dream to actualize, and work and wait alertly for the way to be shown you. If distractions get in the way, you'll find ways to make them go away. A new life doesn't happen in a nanosecond, it starts with a gentle breath one day, and segues on, the divine dance begun.

Ann

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

[COLOR="DarkRed"] Who, among us, has never done something foolish or ignorant? Not terribly encouraging, but you still can learn stuff 5 yr. olds on farms learn. Being bright, and facile with language does not somehow make you unable to learn simple trouble shooting. Think about the thousands of women who learned mechanical trades during WWII. I hope you told yourself, on the effect of "Woo hoo! I/we just completed a multiday journey, and we ruddy well loved it, eh?" That's the sort of positive self talk I meant.

Ann, you know I was just having some fun with my little story, right? In no way was I trying to say being a translator was somehow a particular problem. Just that I understand how challenging some parts of this life can be for someone (like me) who did not grow up with a wrench in their hands.

I envy people who grew up tearing apart engines, or building things from scratch. I spent my formative years learning the physics of neutron stars, and then translating the research of others into words most people could understand. When I bought my first boat I had never even changed the oil on a vehicle. I had much to learn — still have much to learn.

You’re absolutely right though, the community is a wonderful resource. Most of what I’ve learned has come from fellow boaters taking me by the hand and graciously sharing of their time and expertise. Now, some 15 years late, I am able to do the same (in select areas) with newer boaters. It’s a wonderful karmic circle.

[JPA Cate]

^^^^^
Ah, Mike, don't tell anyone how much fun it is to help some figure out for themselves how to do something, and the positive self talk it can generate!

[pufferfish]

When I finally found the right boat AND could scrape together the money. For several years prior, it was either or.

[Captain Graham]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

please do tell me how you knew when you were ready to buy the sailboat

I am not sure what you mean when you say sailboat.

If you are talking about a sailboat for local day or weekend sailing there are many sailboats on craigslist for as little as $500.
They may need some work but if you have someplace to store it you can learn some good skills.
If you are talking about buying a live aboard sailboat where you want to cruise long distances that is something completely different.

My current sailboat is an Hurley Alacrity 19 that I bought for $500.
Trailer, boat, sails and all.
It took me about 2 months to fix it up for sailing and I spent about $500 on materials.
So for about $1,000 I have a great little weekender that I can sleep and cook in.

Without knowing anything about what you are looking to do, I would recommend you d the following
1. Buy the smallest / cheapest fixed upper boat that will fit your needs.
2. Fix it up for sailing and go sailing ASAP.
3. Do not waist time and money making it pretty or fixing things that do not need to be fixed.
4. After 6 months sell it and then you will have a much better idea of what will suit your needs.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

^^^^^
Ah, Mike, don't tell anyone how much fun it is to help some figure out for themselves how to do something, and the positive self talk it can generate!

Shhhhh, the secret is safe with me .

Actually, I’ve been thinking about this thread, and my honest (if somewhat embellished) anecdote about my early boating life. I was having some fun with it, but there is a truth in there as well: Often this life ain’t so easy, and some people come to it better equipped than others.

If you are of modest financial means, and must do most of the maintenance and upgrade work yourself, then it certainly helps to have mechanical and electrical skills. Oh, and plumbing is essential. And fibreglassing. How about sewing, food preservation, electronics, and we haven’t even got into the challenges of navigating and living on a smallish boat.

As I have discovered, sailing is the easiest part of the cruising life. It’s all the other stuff around boat ownership and cruising that is hard(er).

Skills can be learned and improved. Some who come to this boating life start with high levels of skills. And some, like me, start far lower on the skills ladder. I think it’s important for all of us to try and recognize where we are, and to have the humility to say when we need help.

If I can be so bold, I suspect part of wolfgal’s personal struggles include the need to develop these skills, and to feel comfortable in her ability to manage these challenges. I know she will, b/c she is asking the questions.

It’s those who don’t ask the questions that I sometimes worry about; like so many of those “I have no experience but I want to make a life change and sail around the world” threads we see here. THESE people worry me.

[maxpics]

Thats easy!
I had the choice between going insane or buy a boat and spend some time on it to recuperate after my divorce! It all went very quickly from there. I found a boat i always wanted but thought i could never afford but financed it and payed the last instalment last year. 14 years it took to pay it off and i still think it was the best decision ever.
Also instead of getting a medium size boat i opted for the all time dream boat because most people i know buy a new (used) boat every 5 to 10 years as they want something bigger and i did not want to make that mistake too. So I got the right one right from the start. I am now 51 years old and got my Nauticat38 some 15 years ago and i am positively sure to keep this one until i die. Although i don’t live on the bost it is like my real home. THE place to ve for me.
I think your wuestion propably means that you want a boat NOW and are ready for it now. Do not worry if your friends tell you to buy a condo instead. That wont make you happy. But if you are lucky, a boat will.

[wolfgal]

am mostly on the finishing end of my translations!

Originally Posted by daletournier

Ive watched this with an ex business partner, always waiting for all the lights to be green before he makes a move, this paralyzed him because all the lights were never green at the same time.

Im a big believer in "life rewards action" it dosen’t always workout exactly as you planned but different isnt always worse. The courage to make a decision and take action isnt always easy BUT nothings permanent, you can always correct or change on the way, moving and correcting is better than stagnating.

Btw Wofgal, have you considered a Freedom like Gamayun's? theres many different models, Im a big fan, i think they are often underated, easy to single hand. The 28 & 33 (35) ketches are shallow draft.

Dale, you are such a clever one, no wonder you retired early! i see what you mean when you speak of the green lights (paralysis by analysis, ahem)... sometimes i do tread water and lose time and energy but mostly i've been pushing on, swimming directly against the current, a current i've been caught up in for a while now. slowly but surely...

as for the Freedom 33s etc., i've read about them, looked at them, considered...am not very seduced (they seem so naked without shrouds). then again, i've yet to get on one but will consider. thanks.


Mike, your story is really so very funny! You are definitely the struggling intellectual!

I'm not as bad as you for sure! thanks for making me realise this. although this was long ago (in my 20s and early 30s), i actually worked as an artist assistant in a sculpture and painting studio: the circular saw, jacksaw, three different sanders, electric drill, power drill, welding machine (not that i got good at welding), pilot paint and staple gun (both using the compressor), lots of different hammers, screwdrivers, wrenches, rulers, cutters, ... all kinds of tape: I loved them all! these were my best years even if the studio wasn't heated, and i was paid peanuts.

the only thing is, i was the assistant, not the artist, so i carried out orders and learned to predict (and prepare for) the next step in the process, the next tool needed (not to mention all the cleaning up). to be the one 'in charge' will be new to me... so even though i'm super weary of electricity (especially AC), have never bled and engine or changed an impeller (only watched videos), i am really and truly looking forward to using my future tools and tool boxes and all the screws and jubilee clips.


Two (chris and ?) have mentioned how planning, breaking things down into bite-size chunks is the best way to move forward without getting overwhelmed. definitely. but i need to back up a bit first... i've yet to find a sailing-soul here (someone i can actually see and talk to) who really gets how important all this is. and this is important because, beyond talking boats/sailing, etc., i actually need a bit of help finding certain land-life transition solutions. girlfriends who would never live on a boat, are the very worst at this: they just cannot fathom how i could possibly not want to live on land. from there, i believe i will be able to focus on breaking things into smaller steps, bits and pieces... and gain confidence, ...hopefully.

Ann, you were so fortunate (and still so) to have your Jim! i'm so in awe of those few couples, like you two, who have a beautiful thing. Being on my own in this makes it all the more daunting. and rubbing shoulders with those who do not want me to move forward with my plan has made it flat-out difficult. working on it...


Dale, you were saying that moving forward is better than stagnating, that we can correct mistakes along the way, that "life rewards action"... and i'm listening. thanks.


thomm225, i did look at the girl's blog, thanks. she is young and in that part of her life where she is eagerly shaping her self-identity. it is curious because she tackles sexism out there, head on. she is brave, yes, but makes me feel old... at her age i did all kinds of crazy things too (digs and crossing deserts and diving and sailing myself up the nile and got really brave in bucharest, actually instigated the release of political prisoners -- all kinds of things). so i could be inspired by her, perhaps... honestly not really though. i guess it is because i find her lacking in elegance. i did see the movie Adrift though. although the movie wasn't a great movie from a sailor's perspective, this woman's story is very moving, very touching. it is understandable how it took her so long to write the book.

what i enjoy most of her story is how she is still sailing today. she did not fall to her knees, give into survival guilt (which can be crippling) and loss. although how she was able to keep his boat is not stated, i'm glad she was able to, so to access the ocean's healing powers (as Ann rightly puts it). otherwise she may have succumbed to sorrow's gaping hole... thank you for suggesting the film. the book is surely good.

so to keep everyone up to date, i'm awaiting photos of the contessa, haven't heard back yet. the owner was to show the boat yesterday, so... in the meantime (while gooding off from my work), i did loads of research, made a word doc compilation of all kinds of things different owners have reportedly repaired or found wrong on their own boats. and i got really lucky and found a check-list of what to look for when buying this boat (and there are some issues). though there is surely more out there, i think i did a pretty good job doing the ground work.

yes, i do this kind of thing. i'm extremely curious but also have my reasons. a doc like this can help me during my own inspection and, if i get that far, so to be able to inform/discuss with my surveyor so he knows where to look, what to look for as well. if a surveyor says no to doing things this way, then i'll find another. i came up with this idea years ago while talking to a surveyor (an excellent one) who first asked me what i knew about that particular type of boat. he genuinely wanted to do his job well. this is the kind of surveyor one needs...

thanks again everyone!