unsuccessfully went through the boat buying process!

[Celestialsailor]

Until I read that the broker said the check is in the mail and I will assume he is being honest, I thought he may have been stalling to save the deal. He only wants his commission. The deal may not be dead yet. Used, older boats, are not flying off the shelf right now and chances are will be around for awhile. I'm wondering if this has been listed within the last 3 months. If so, they are hoping for the best. remember the broker gave them a song and dance to get the listing. A few months from now, reality may set in.

[snorkmaiden]

Mmm. Our first attempt at buying in the UK resulted in a wasted survey, but it was a learning experience! My first boat was bought in Croatia, with no surveyor available, I just went ahead anyway. Is this 'earnest' money usual? Best of luck wiuth the next try.

[billdomb]

Beyond what you've written, concerned about your financial margins if 20K will be make or break on the previous boat.

You WILL need $$ no matter how good the boat appears.

[tomtriad]

Originally Posted by tamicatana

Sir,
this is some of the best time you could spend learning about how to spot trouble before you ever get to the paper-signing/money-handing stage:

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

The surveyor who wrote this piece knows his stuff! Hire him for your next survey.

[basssears]

Originally Posted by tamicatana

Sir,
this is some of the best time you could spend learning about how to spot trouble before you ever get to the paper-signing/money-handing stage:

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

I'd piggyback on this idea with this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Inspecting-Sa.../dp/0071445455
Inspecting the Aging Sailboat by Don Casey


Gives you a decent chance of finding deal breaker issues before you ever have to go out of pocket for a survey. Won't find everything (like a diesel that won't get up to RPMs per se) but after our first unsuccessful attempt to buy we started using this, eliminated 3 more boats with this before getting the 4th surveyed and buying it.


Good luck, it's a frustrating process sometimes but worth it when you get the right boat.


-- Bass

[gonesail]

sorry but I would never offer full price. you did not say how old the boat and engine were. earnest money is refundable within the due diligence period.

[Calif.Ted]

The Nantucket I mentioned in post number 12 from 1 week ago has sold, first person to look offered couple thousand under asking, second person offered full price.

[twrdocktor]

The best thing about social media is that it is social media. After a fair warning, post your concerns on Facebook, Twitter or instagram. Then ask friends to share often. That usually does the trick.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by skipmac

This might have been mentioned in the thread but if so I missed it.

Is it possible that the seller had some awareness that the boat would need some repairs, maintenance, etc and had already priced it accordingly? Are other models of the same boat on the market for comparison? If so, is this one already 10-20-30% cheaper? If that is the case then one might assume that the seller already discounted the price and isn't willing to reduce further.

THIS, ten times over! Most surveys reveal that the 30 year old boat is.....30 years old! Rigging at 16+ years may not reflect "best practice" but my 1979 Sabre came to me in 2008 with original rigging and was sold in 2020 with the same rigging. An older engine, regardless of hours, may well need an injector rebuild (but can probably defer it anyway). The sails aren't new. The running rigging is probably due for replacement. These are hardly a surprise, and the price of a 30 year old boat normally reflects that it isn't 3 years old. But, finding the engine doesn't start, or belches smoke, or the bottom has a serious case of measles, or (my last almost-purchase) the deck has 20' of wet core along both jib tracks are all surprises that are "walk-away" or grounds for legitimate price discussions.



A survey showing "the boat is old" is not grounds for a renegotiation. Any buyer of a boat (or house) of mine that thinks that the survey to-do list (even insurance-priority items) is grounds for renegotiation is getting his deposit back as fast as I can say "sorry, we're done here." Excepting, of course, big-ticket must-do or value-impacting items that were a surprise to all parties.

[Cwens]

One way to think of the survey contingency, aside from the legal and contractual specifics, and to stay on the side of good faith negotiations:

The survey contingency is for surprises: things that are wrong with the boat that the initial examination didn't reveal, and that are beyond what you would expect from a boat of that design, age, and general condition.

For example: A typical auxiliary engine with, say, 6,000 hours on it, is likely near the end of its life. So your offer likely reflects the prospect of needing to repower. If the survey confirms that the engine runs but its compression is weak and it doesn't make full RPM, that's not a big surprise, and you wouldn't reasonably expect to knock the price of a new engine off the offer.

If, on the other hand, the seller represents the hull as sound, but the survey finds extensive core rot and delamination, then that is a surprise, and exercising the contingency (to walk away or renegotiate the price) is entirely reasonable.




[edit: I see now that SailingHarry posted almost the same info; sorry to be repetitive]

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by skipmac

This might have been mentioned in the thread but if so I missed it.

Is it possible that the seller had some awareness that the boat would need some repairs, maintenance, etc and had already priced it accordingly? Are other models of the same boat on the market for comparison? If so, is this one already 10-20-30% cheaper? If that is the case then one might assume that the seller already discounted the price and isn't willing to reduce further.

Yes. Plus the rigger gave the OK. Plus the engine not reaching full revs is a sign you might have a decent sized prop rather than tired engine. Tired engine has other symptoms.

It just might be your boat

[BBill]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The expectation is that the buyer should make a reasonable effort to discover the overall condition of the boat before making the initial offer.

That's flawed expectations. A seller can expect all he wants but the contract is where it matters. Buyers hire surveyors because they typically don't have the expertise to "discover the overall condition of the boat before making the initial offer". On the otherhand, experienced buyers know what to look for...example: 16 yr old standing rigging highly questionable and offer reflecting that. A 6000 hr Yanmar without excellent maintenance records the same.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Plus the engine not reaching full revs is a sign you might have a decent sized prop rather than tired engine.

Or hasn't been cleaned for ages and a ton of growth on it.

[Ceryan]

Three years ago I made an offer for a PS 37 in a Caribbean island through a broker in Miami. The seller wanted 100K and I offered 90K and wired 9K as goodwill money. After the survey and unresolvable logistical issues I withdrew my offer. Even though it cost a lot of money for the broker to fly and spend several days in the island my goodwill money was returned promptly.
Three months ago I made an offer of 40K for a 35' sailboat listed for 49K and paid 4K as goodwill money. The survey (Over $800) found a lot of issues I could not notice before, because of all the stuff stored throughout the boat. Under the new circumstances I made a final offer of 25K. The seller accepted and I bought the boat. So changing the offer is not that unusual.
This is my fourth transaction and all the brokers I worked with were decent professional people. You should be able to get your money without any issues.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Ceryan

Three months ago I made an offer of 40K for a 35' sailboat listed for 49K and paid 4K as goodwill money. The survey (Over $800) found a lot of issues I could not notice before, because of all the stuff stored throughout the boat. Under the new circumstances I made a final offer of 25K. The seller accepted and I bought the boat. So changing the offer is not that unusual.
This is my fourth transaction and all the brokers I worked with were decent professional people. You should be able to get your money without any issues.

It sounds like the seller may not have known about some of the more major issues and figured if your surveyor could find them, the next buyer's surveyor might find the same issues. Probably figured to spare the pain and get out sooner than later.