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Old 30-03-2019, 10:51   #16
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

We have had this conversation before. Here is the quote from the NVD


"
The official number assigned to documented vessels, preceded by the abbreviation “NO.” must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least three inches high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area


Note: "structural part of the hull" My boat came with the document numbers attached to the hull. They are clearly visible when the cushions are removed. My numbers are under the glass and removal
would be obvious and cause scarring to the surrounding "hull" area
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Old 30-03-2019, 11:16   #17
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

The "Official Number" was put on the boat by the manufacturer ....this is the number used on your CG registration.
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Old 30-03-2019, 11:34   #18
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

john-
The pros/cons of documentation are mainly listed in the USC someplace. IIRC a documented vessel is responsible for repatriating any crew they put off, so that's a potential financial obligation, not likely to be a problem. And one that you won't see, is that when and if personal vessels are drafted for coastal patrol in time of war (as they were in WW2) the documentation lists will be the first source for draft calls. Of course, with computers and databases today, the state registered ones will be a fast second, so that's another non-issue.
Comes down to a few bucks for the paperwork versus spending state bucks. Can't really think of any reason not to do it, except for perhaps trying to dodge liens on the boat by making the title search harder. If the boat is being kept in US waters...there's just no reason for documentation really, is there? (Except the easier title/lien search may make resale faster.)
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Old 30-03-2019, 12:12   #19
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

If you're planning any kind of intl cruising, we've never had an issue with our USCG Documentation paperwork-it's been accepted everywhere (Caribb, Medd, and Asia). And now with the 5-yr renewal program the yearly issue can easily be avoided too. In our travels from Asia thru the Medd to the Caribb, all we carry is copies of the USCG document, passports, and insurance papers.....that's all anybody's asked for.
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Old 30-03-2019, 13:16   #20
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

anyone know the regulations in NY or where to find such regulations?
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Old 30-03-2019, 13:21   #21
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

NYS DMV web site. pretty simple: NYS doesn't care about documentation. If you have it, you still have to display a NYS registration sticker IF you are required to be registered in NYS.

Any boat that spends more than 90 continuous days in the waters (Waters) of NYS within any calender year, must be registered in NYS, as I recall it. If you haul, or spend the night in CT or NJ, you can keep records of that and as long as you don't violate 90 days, you don't need the NYS registration, regardless of documentation.

Check for possible changes, they can be made twice a year, but I think that's what it has been for a long time. 90 continuous days, in the waters.
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Old 30-03-2019, 14:38   #22
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

I believe with USCG documentation, the state is restricted from requiring display of its numbers, in order to avoid confusion.

As others have written, maybe alternative location?

But usually I think just required to carry the rego ready to show when asked.
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Old 30-03-2019, 17:03   #23
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

In Michigan registration is required the reason is so when you register your boat you pay the 6% sales tax usually the dealers handle that.The state stickers are required to be displayed on both sides. As well as numbers. A documented boat does not have to display the numbers. Mortgage company will usually require documentation.
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Old 30-03-2019, 17:07   #24
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maka View Post
The "Official Number" was put on the boat by the manufacturer ....this is the number used on your CG registration.
The number put on a boat by the mfg is the HIN...hull identification number. That is NOT the CG documentation number. When you apply for CG documentation, you have to provide the HIN to the CG. THe CG will then provide the boat owner with an official documentation number that has to be permantly affixed somewhere in the boat interior. The CG Doc number will look like... NO. 1234567, which doesn't look anything like the HIN.
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Old 30-03-2019, 22:40   #25
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

Documentation is never necessary if the use is non-commercial. However, if your boat is over 5GRT and you want to finance it, most lenders require documentation because that is the only way the can record a Preferred Ship Mortgage with the US Coast Guard. This is the same as a mortgage on a home, it provides a secured position for the lender ahead of all other creditors. And it can help protect the boat owner from frivolous law suits. If you've got a big loan on your boat few people will go through the federal courts to try to put a lien. Small state-registered boats are chattel and subject to just about anyone.
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Old 31-03-2019, 01:13   #26
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

Maybe not all that relevant, but in Australia similar confusing issues exist. The separate states in Aus. all require that resident vessels carry state registration (except the Northern Territory). The registration does not require any certification or surveying. (as far as I know). The registration is generally renewed each year and you need to carry a decal or have it painted on the hull exterior, or both. You can be fined for not complying.
However, state registration is not to be confused with Australian registration. Aus. registration is internationally recognized and is the only document that incorporates registered ownership of the vessel. Australian registration is extremely thorough requiring detailed surveying and proof of construction and the meeting of survey conditions.
State registration is not nor cannot be used for, proof of ownership.

Australian registration is a one off and their is no annual fee.

All Australians sailors leaving are warned that if they do not have Australian registration then on return, may have to pay high import duties as they have no certified proof of ownership.
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Old 31-03-2019, 01:45   #27
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

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Originally Posted by billgewater View Post
. Australian registration is extremely thorough requiring detailed surveying and proof of construction and the meeting of survey conditions.
****
I don't believe this is so, for it is certainly possible to register vessels that are not in survey nor built to such standards. Our boat was registered when we purchased her, and she is most certainly not in survey.
*******



All Australians sailors leaving are warned that if they do not have Australian registration then on return, may have to pay high import duties as they have no certified proof of ownership.
*****
One must have registered the vessel before outward clearance will be granted, so I doubt the validity of this statement.
*
**********

The Aussie customs procedures are complicated enough without adding erroneous info!

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Old 31-03-2019, 06:54   #28
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

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Originally Posted by jmschmidt View Post
Documentation is never necessary if the use is non-commercial.
The OP context is recreational, travelling internationally. Commercial use does not come into this context.

There is no significant reason to **not** get USCG documented.

There are countries that require national documentation.

If you want to visit them it becomes necessary.
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Old 31-03-2019, 15:04   #29
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
The Aussie customs procedures are complicated enough without adding erroneous info!

Jim
Yes Jim. having the boat built to survey is not a requirement for Australian survey. In my own case I built my yacht and tried to meet various survey conditions without total success, but the man who gave me the then British registration assessment spent a complete day on my yacht measuring all sorts of things to ensure that the boat could always be identified. Tunnage (volume ) was assessed as I assume it was a European requirement of the time. It was not a survey for insurance purposes. (1978) However the documentation was over thirty pages. British registration of Aus. vessels were later converted to Australian registration on the Aus . shipping register.

However, getting Australian registration on even a locally built boat that has changed hands is certainly not an easy task. Provenance is required in detail with strong confirmation. If a purchased boat already has Aus. reg. it certainly can make life easier.

On departing Australia, an acquaintance foolishly decided to depart Australia on a boat he had previously paid import duty on. He had QLD registration but not Australian registration. He departed without clearance and on return was informed that as he did not have Aus. registration then his boat was to be treated as an import if he intended staying here. Other circumstances intervened and the boat is now on the bottom.
The issue I was trying to raise was the near lack of value of the state registration requirements in Australia.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:24   #30
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Re: state registration vs. documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
I believe with USCG documentation, the state is restricted from requiring display of its numbers, in order to avoid confusion.

As others have written, maybe alternative location?

But usually I think just required to carry the rego ready to show when asked.
As often as this is discussed, there's always some amount of confusion - after 5 5 boats, I'm still a little gray (well, a lot gray up top!). For example, in Md., you do NOT have to show the numbers if documented, but you must register and show the Md sticker. Now....I've been told, and have receive different info - even from DNR folks - that the sticker could also go on the mast. Friday I was told it had to be on the hull, forward at the bow. So....still confused!
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