Share survey(s) with prospective buyers?

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by OS2Dude

Every Survey I've had done states it is for ME only and not to be shared. So you don't have to lie about anything, just tell them you are not allowed to share the survey. As others have said, old surveys are barely worth the paper they're printed on anyway unless they were done in the last month or so.

Rats nest wiring with speaker cable, discoloration of chainplates, marked corrosion on tanks, bulkheads detached from deck or hull, etc, etc, etc...are all problems that do not go away with the passage of 30 or so days. If the seller of a boat knew about all this stuff and did nothing during his/her ownership, it speaks volumes to his/her maintenance philosophy, which plays out to being part of the value of the boat in the first place. Many of these things can be checked by a prospective buyer simply on the first walk-through of the boat without wasting a grand to have a pre-purchase survey done (which we all know can be so superficial so as to be useless).

I find it remarkable that people would plop down $$$ without seeing old inspection documents. If there's nothing to hide, then there's no reason not to share the paperwork. The only reason to hide the paper would be because the seller feels that sharing the paper would reduce the value of the boat, which is why any prospective buyer of such a boat ought to assume the worst and look elsewhere, or at most effectively low-ball the seller with good justification for doing so.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Singularity

I find it remarkable that people would plop down $$$ without seeing old inspection documents.

I see a lot of folks that feel the same way about having owners provide every receipt and invoice for every job done since the keel that was laid. This makes no sense. This information is irrelevant. Once I own a boat, I don't get the boat surveyed on a regular basis, nor do I inventory every invoice so the next potential buyer and can stuff a pillow case and sleep better at night.

In all vessels there is only three states to any item:

1) About to fail
2) Not Functioning/Broken
3) Recently repaired/replaced

Whether I have the receipt for the water heater I replaced 5 years ago is irrelevant. Hire a surveyor to attest that a water heater exists, appears to be in "x" shape and whether it works or not.

What matters is what is on the survey NOW, not what was on a survey several years ago.

[Mike OReilly]

Earlier I responded to the OP's question with regard to his obligation to provide an old survey. The answer is, no. There is no obligation.

However, if I wear my buyer's hat, I absolutely want to see any relatively recent surveys that the owner has in her/his possession. I will definitely ask, and denial of this request will leave me wondering why. In the absence of a good explanation, I will read this as the owner trying to hide something, and I will walk away.

An old survey is absolutely a useful tool for the potential buyer. Obviously is show what the state of the boat was, not what it is. But this provides a baseline for me, the potential buyer, when I go and do my own survey, and then when I hire a professional to do an official one. Without this, all one has is a snapshot, which is OK, but having a previous survey is better (for me, the buyer -- not necessarily for the seller).

[Stu Jackson]

I had a survey done, of course, when we bought our boat - 1998! A lot more than 2 years ago.
I also keep extensive maintenance and purchase records.
I don't think any purchaser (smart...) would ask for a prior survey. They'd have their own done, even on a $30K boat, if they were, uhm, smart...
I would have NO hesitation giving anyone my 20 pages of maintenance records and purchase records (the first are PDF copies of my handwritten maintenance logs, the second is a spreadsheet). Of course, sharing those should help.

[Singularity]

-It would be odd for a buyer to expect periodic surveys
-Expecting a seller to have kept receipts/invoices is a bit much, but if they were available, all else equal, such provenance lends to increased value of the machine.
-To be clear I would always suggest a buyer get a pre-buy survey even when the seller had one done last week.

Everyone knows that having invoices doesn't change anything, but generally speaking, the kind of people anal enough to keep such paperwork tend to keep a tidier ship overall. That's just life if you're familiar with buying other peoples' contraptions.

Pre-buy surveys are notoriously inadequate and this is just the way it is. Accordingly we can just blame pre-buy surveyors, or, a buyer can attempt to circumvent pre-buy survery shortcomings by having additional sources of information about the vessel.

I expect any used boat I'd purchase to have issues, and obviously the condition of the boat NOW is what matters, but if I'm going to drop big cash, I'm not wasting my time snooping around Bob's mystery ship and paying $1k to figure out what Bob doesn't want to share outright when Tom, selling a sister-ship, is forthcoming. I'd suggest that the Tom's of the world probably sell their boat faster...

Horses for courses.

[JoeRobertJr]

I have to wonder if showing a potential buyer my years of maintenance and repair logs is going to be met with "Wow, this guy took good care of his boat." - or - "Wow, maintaining this boat takes a lot of work."

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by JoeRobertJr

I have to wonder if showing a potential buyer my years of maintenance and repair logs is going to be met with "Wow, this guy took good care of his boat." - or - "Wow, maintaining this boat takes a lot of work."

Interesting. This is the very first time I have ever heard a contrasting POV of sharing well kept records. I understand the conflicts, perhaps humorously () presented. If serious (not unreasonable) it would appear the latter POV would indicate a buyer who was not too knowledgeable.

[somanyboats]

I have sold boats and the people interested have asked about surveys.
I tell them I do not have a CURRENT survey.
They will need to get their own.
I only make the survey I had done when I purchased the boat available after they have purchased my boat.
I am up front about the condition.

[S/V Adeline]

Our purchase was far outside the realm of *normal*, but as a buyer I can say I felt better getting all the paperwork which the previous owner had hoarded since purchasing her new. Original purchase paperwork, handwritten notes from the dealer containing every specification for sail and line size/length for every line on the vessel when new. Operating manuals for every *add on* installed both before initial sale and over the years. I have a contraption that wires to the alternator and I guess regulates the field wire or something, never heard of it and don't know enough to try to use it...but i have the manual and will figure it out one day. The only thing I couldn't find paperwork on was the solar controller. Even Google couldn't help much with that.
To the OP question, I believe only the naive are expecting a perfect vessel. When we sold our previous vessels we tried to be as up front and honest as possible. I took buyers through and pointed out everything that knew of that needed attention. The vessels were priced accordingly

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by JoeRobertJr

I have to wonder if showing a potential buyer my years of maintenance and repair logs is going to be met with "Wow, this guy took good care of his boat." - or - "Wow, maintaining this boat takes a lot of work."

Previous owner of our yacht showed us a log book detailing every time the engine had been started and how long it had run, for the previous 19 years. We bought the boat.

However, there was a bit of sucking on the teeth by the surveyor, a friend. He explained that it had probably never been surveyed if only one owner. So if there were any majors they wouldn't have been picked up and rectified during the first ownership. Turned out the major fails were the rusty anchor chain, and no flame failure device on the oven, only the hob.

All buyers are different, like Mike I want to see warts and all. At least I know what I am getting in to then.

Pete

[adjo]

As Phyrcooler says: 'Even “good” surveyors can miss things. Also, some issues are well hidden, or may be developing.'

I'm a retired surveyor and always tried to do my best but freely acknowledge that I may (must?) have missed things over the years. I certainly found many defects that previous surveyors had missed and some of the surveys I read were so bad it was shocking.

I found it all quite stressful and have walked lighter since retirement. Old wooden boats can be a nightmare and I once had one that was 150 years old (beautifully maintained/restored and the only defect I found was a tear in the sail cover!).

As others have pointed out that survey reports belong to the client and it's entirely up to them what they do with them with regards sharing.

[fireant]

I'm in the market to buy a boat as my first boat. I had people share the survey with me often. Sometimes the survey would have something in it that I didn't feel like tackling as repairs. So that saved both my time and seller time for me to go there and look at the boat and ask him lots of questions. I already knew that the boat is not for me.
Other times / most of the times really the boat is over priced for the condition its in.
Looking at the cost of the boat and the repairs it needs I can get something in much better shape to start with. I have two boats I looked at with a survey send to me and one more this weekend.
I would say by sending the survey you would get less tire kickers showing up and wasting your time. But if you got everyone walk away from your boat after you send the survey.. Really look at the asking price or maybe the boat is not in as good of a shape as you think it is.
As a buyer its simple I look at the asking price + what I think it would cost me to repair the boat to what I want it to be. = can I get another boat for that price with out all those problems and having to spend my free time.

[mikedefieslife]

Surveys often say daft things too, like 'no jack lines fitted' or not a first class paint job. No **** It's a 40 year old boat. The problem is some buyers that don't know any better can get picky about such things despite a boat being priced for its age and condition.

They are a lot of idiots/dreamers out there that seem to expect to be able to discount the price of a used boat by all the items/work needed to make it as if it were new. I see it mentioned a lot even these forums where people should know better.