Sailboats w/ Cargo Holds, for Transporting/ Selling Goods in CARB. ?

[HighFly_27]

Hello All,

I was in the Army during the little Grenada Invasion with the Cubans in 1983. I met John Caldwell at Palm Island. He had helped the Spec. Ops. Boys investigate Grenada just a few weeks prior to the show down in October,1983.

Anyway, John Caldwell was placed on the good boy list and received some free of charge generators from the Army. John opened up Palm Island to the Army, to come and go for rest & relieve (R&R). John had a boat motor that was over heating. so we fixed it for him. John treated all the Army Folks A OK, we had some great (understatement) times at Palm Island.

Anyway, I become aware of goods (thru J. Caldwell) being traded around the CARB. Islands. This seemed like a good way to make money & enjoy yourself in paradise at the same time.

My Original Question: I have seen the plans & folks building cargo type hauling sailing boats with a single or double cargo holds. I assume that these boats are being used for hauling/ transporting cargo. This post makes me smile. I'm guessing the Clipper Ships are coming back into vogue < dumb joke.

Perhaps, theirs a market $$$ place for this type of (transporting & selling goods) business in the CARB. Island Chain. I remember seeing a number of smaller boats come into St George Harbor, Grenada. They were older boats, small (trawlers) freighters, nothing fancy.

Closing: " Does anyone think theirs a market place for transporting goods thru out the CARB. Island Chain. ? ! ? "

Note: This Post has Nothing to do with Smuggling, Drugs, Absolutely Not, so Don't Go There ! I brought the transport business subject up because I saw this type of trade/ transport business going-on in 1983.


Thanks,

Avery

[boatman61]

There's an old sailing ship called 'Tres Hombres' that transports rum and various organic produce between the Caribe and Holland.. met up with them last year in Horta around March time when they were heading for Holland with a full cargo.. crewed by regulars and volunteers along for the experience of Tall Ships..
Good bunch of people..
I'd imagine there's scope for it but think inter-island would be limited.. need to bring stuff in from the mainland.. or as 'Tres Hombres' does.. find an organic market to cater to.. and the Dutch are big on organic produce...

[FamilyVan]

I think it's a sweet idea, brother and I have I estimated several business opportunities on the Atlantic coast of Costa Rica and Panama- never trading cargo though.

My thoughts are you would want to find a local regulatory over sight guy and buy or design a vessel just shy of the maximum tonnage for its class of vessel. Definitely you don't want to get into SOLAS territory (500 tons or so).

I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with various Caribbean nations regulatory oversight framework, possibly try getting in touch with shipping agents on the islands you're considering, cargo surveyors would be able to provide insight as well.

If you restrict your commerce to domestic trade only, you will save yourself major headaches as well.

If I were to attempt something like this I would try something really small scale at first, like a 45' schooner carrying produce, supplies and hippies between remote island eco resorts, somewhere like Bocas Del Toro Panama.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Delancey]

There's a couple different sail cargo projects around here.

https://vermontsailfreightproject.wordpress.com

https://tugster.wordpress.com/tag/schooner-black-seal/

[HighFly_27]

Boatman61 and All,

I checked the Tres Hombres sailboat on the internet and was impressed. I can see why you said they are good people. Yes, people would (readily) volunteer to crew her. It would/ could be your best (fondest dream) crew experience of a life time.

The Tres Hombres has found it's own niche in -- trade/ transportation/ providing dreams on a tall ship. They've done a great job in marketing it with all the beautiful pictures & associated media on face book; lots of information available & all well done & 1st class.

The Tres Hombres has zero engine power, no propeller, just sails. Sailing her would take some careful pre-planning for every voyage & port arrival. I did see pictures of a small tug assisting the Tres Hombres; so it's a manageable task to get in & out of port.

Thanks for Info. on the Tres Hombres, big smiles .

Avery

[HighFly_27]

Delancey & All,

I checked out the links you provided, very interesting reading. Now, I can see that I'm not the only one with a cargo sailing boat idea. Also, I was wondering why folks were buying plans to build larger sailboats with cargo holds... now I know.

Thanks,

Avery

[seasick]

I highly recommend that anyone with this idea first read: The Business of Shipping by James J. Buckley now in its sixth addition.

It boils down to this: regularly scheduled routes can be profitable in some areas and tramping is seldom if ever profitable.

I have had sailing vessels with large holds for decades. From a 42' sailing fish boat to the 94' topsail schooner Unicorn. Cargo is a good way to offset expenses but not in itself particularly profitable.

I always try to have a secondary purpose to my voyages. Hauling food, supplies, research equipment, books, etc etc to remote atolls is a great way to help the inhabitants and receive a great reception. A simple call, telex, radio msg etc to your destination with an offer to haul out needed supplies is always well received.

[captain58sailin]

Hi Avery, I looked at starting up a cargo operation in the Caribbean and spent several years exploring the different areas to operate and came away with the idea that it would be beyond my means to set up and operate. I know of several people who have made it work on a limited basis, not using strictly sailing vessels, but power as well. There is a commercial operation out of Florida "G&G" marine that are using landing craft that seem to be doing well. My 53' Skookum has a 20,000 lb freezer hold, which I plan on using for commercial Albacore fishing on the Pacific side for two or three years with an eye on moving my program to the Caribbean after that, I am interested in the possibilities of local cargo hauling. One thing I did learn is that you have to be careful about where you base your operation out of, I spent some time in the Turks & Caicos and discovered that to base out of there one had to sign a partnership agreement with a local citizen giving them 51% ownership of the company and as soon as the ink was dry on the contract they could boot you out, with no compensation, that was back in 2001 things may have changed since then. I believe you would have to manage your expenses very closely and arrange your scheduling very efficiently to operate at any kind of a profit. If you were doing it as a labor of love then it would make much more sense. I expect Belizesailor, on this forum would have some very useful insights on this proposal.

[seasick]

Another good way to add constructive purpose to your voyages is to contact department heads of universities with oceanographic departments and offer to conduct regular observations of weather, sea state, mammal, seabird or garbage counts, etc.

Though not financially profitable, this is a great exercise for cruisers of all ages.

This type of work has lead to more profitable endeavors in my past such as installing tide guages on uninhabited islands.

A worthy endeavor for someone with more time than I, would be to start a website that connects cruisers with researchers so as to crowd source research that would otherwise take very expensive research vessels to conduct.

[HighFly_27]

Everyone that Chimed-In,

Your information was very helpful, I liked the different view points & broaden my horizon's. Making a buck is not my No# 1 motive; building a business that offsets my expenses would be A Ok and (hopefully) fun too.

Avery

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by seasick

I highly recommend that anyone with this idea first read: The Business of Shipping by James J. Buckley now in its sixth addition.

It boils down to this: regularly scheduled routes can be profitable in some areas and tramping is seldom if ever profitable.

I have had sailing vessels with large holds for decades. From a 42' sailing fish boat to the 94' topsail schooner Unicorn. Cargo is a good way to offset expenses but not in itself particularly profitable.

I always try to have a secondary purpose to my voyages. Hauling food, supplies, research equipment, books, etc etc to remote atolls is a great way to help the inhabitants and receive a great reception. A simple call, telex, radio msg etc to your destination with an offer to haul out needed supplies is always well received.

Hey Seasick, I crewed on the Unicorn in 94. Sweet boat.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[socaldmax]

Some interesting info here. My first thought when I read the title was, "How is he going to deal with customs and taxes, etc?"

I keep reading posts about people paying huge sums in customs duties to get parts or whatever delivered via postal, so I imagine those same countries would be all over a sailing vessel full of imported goods. Am I correct?

[belizesailor]

Choice of venue(s) would be very important. Some places, like Belize, have almost untenable Customs issues/costs. Belizean duties are so high that they create a strong incentive to smuggling and fraud...and quite a bit goes on, but that's an effective way to lose a boat if you got caught...probably not the ideal business plan. There are small power boats that transport goods and people between Guatemala/Honduras and Belize, but they don't trade directly.

But for a limited number of other places, coastal trading is the norm. For example, we just ventured into the Eastern San Blas for a few weeks. There are loads of Colombian trading boats working that coast. They work both the Colombian and San Blas (Panama) coast....buying/trading for coconuts in the San Blas for retail products brought from Colombia. Sometimes there maybe several trading boats at a given village in one day.

These are good venues because they are remote (E San Blas has no road access to transport goods), so its a natural market for boats.

There also local Panamanian boats working this coast which eliminates the Customs issues. Similarly there used to be coastal traders that worked the Belizean coast too...till the Southern Highway was built.

The Colombian boats also transport the occassional passenger too. Not exactly luxury accommodations, but might be an interesting way for you to get some insight into their trade.

Also look up Picton Castle for another model of how to do this.

[Roy M]

captain58sailin, I was aboard your boat (or a sistership) back in the early 80's when the original owner, who had retired from the frozen food industry (I think), was in San Diego to do commercial albacore fishing. I always wondered what happened to that boat. It was schooner-rigged to assist in the loading/unloading fish from the hold, and had a good sized foc'sl for four guys (?).

[Erasmuss]

There is a Project ( Claims to be active but I have my doubts ) called GreenHeart. The purpose is to build a Green Cargo Sailing Ship capable of transporting 20' Sea Containers to remote Islands. Design uses multiple A-Frame Masts which are supposed to convert to Freight Cranes once on site. Stern Door (like an old LST) supposed to allow unloading of containers on Beach.

I think they have a bit of a Pipe Dream going on but supposedly have support of significance.

I believe the idea of using shipping containers is more plausible with ULD's as Opposed to TEU's. I wrote a rather lengthy post on their website and have yet to get even a scoff, which is part of the reason for doubting the projects currently breathing.

You can reach the site and My post here: Greenheart Project | Topic: Future Design Tailored to the Movement of ULD's

You may find the site of interest.

Sincerely,
Erasmuss