Negotiating boat price without a broker

[Leighpilot]

Offer what you’re willing to pay. Tell him to call back if he wants to sell. Meanwhile go look at other boats. Never get hung up on one boat. There’s thousands out there.

[mike mck]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I dont think here in Europe a “ contracted buyers “ broker is used at all , what you do get is “ referral “ brokers. But they do not act any further in the sale

For high end vessels , 1 million and up , it’s common that the buyer will have commercial legal advice on tap and these will get involved. There’s also third party custom agents , boat registration agents etc etc. wealthy buyers tend to have this access anyway

These are not “ buyers brokers. “

Example I have a friend who just bought a 600k yacht. He contacted 8 brokers all over Europe. He did not use any form of buyers broker , as such a system is rare here. He did have custom agent and a commercial lawyer involved once the sale was agreed.

This advice “ get a buyers broker” is rather nonsense, why pay someone to simply search internet listings for you , if you need contract advice hire a lawyer

A buyer does not pay a Buyer broker. The buyers Broker splits the seller brokers fee and handles a number of pita things required to complete the sale. It is anything but nonsense.

[captstu]

I don't think the brokerage commission should be part of the negotiations. During my several boat purchases, I always collected the asking price of the boat model of interest - and plotted the prices by year. This gives an approximate fair asking price for your prospective boat.

Once I have the approximate fair asking price, I discount it for the estimated repairs based on my pre-offer walk thru - or extensive specs, photographs or whatever is available on a long distance purchase.

This gives me an indication of the fair discounted asking price. I provide the seller with a written description of the discounts claimed relative to an "ideal" boat, i.e. aged sails, over hours on engine, bottom paint, age of batteries - that sort of thing. I am prepared to negotiate the discount on each item claimed.

Now comes the hard part. All boat (on the average) sell at a purchase price somewhat below the asking price. My base estimate is 7% based on previous access I had to this data for several boats. You may adjust this for things like days/months on the market, and speed this type of boat sells. Imagine you are competing with a world full of interested buyers. The buyer's broker may have access to a database such as the one I used 8 years ago to find this data - and should be able to provide a number to back up my 7% estimate. A surveyor should have access to this data and may provide you a number for your or similar boats.

The result is a justified offering price - not so low as to be insulting but not so high to leave anything on the table. I have successfully bid and purchased several boats this way - the key is your estimate of how popular your prospective boat is - thus the discount you feel you can apply.

Having worked in the industry, I urge you not to argue against the brokerage commission. They work for their money and might consider such an argument an attack on their ability to earn a living.

Good luck with your purchase - a fair price to both you and the seller requires negotiation. A broker complicates this only a tiny bit since they and the seller both want the maximum income from the sale. Fair negotiation results in a satisfied 3-party transaction.

Good luck and happy sailing. /Stu

[gregjm]

This is exactly why I don't use brokers....they just get in the way. 5% isn't even close to what the value of a boat gets inflated when a broker is involved. 30% is the closer number and has been for years. Be careful, you're about to get hosed in a BIG way.

[CarinaPDX]

I think the use of a buyers broker is a mistake - it creates an obstacle to completing the sale, by adding the interests of a fourth party into the negotiation (after seller, broker, and buyer). If someone needs advice about buying then own up to that and pay for it directly, or do one's own homework. Unlike the U.S. real estate market it is not an expectation of boat brokers that they will split commissions with a buyer's broker, so that is not likely to be an effective argument for getting them to cut their commission. In any event it really is none of the buyer's business as to how much of the sale price goes to the broker: that is between the seller and broker. If the seller wants to re-negotiate the commission in order to make the sale then that is his business. It does happen at times, when the broker is motivated to make the sale. But for a buyer to recommend cutting the commission is a risky path as it may result in the broker deciding to not work with the prospective buyer - basically it is a great way of creating an enemy of someone who can make it difficult to close the deal. My recommendation: stop playing games and just make your offer. And try to keep your mouth shut - the more you say the more you might damage your case (which the OP already seems to have done). And resist trying to devalue the boat with negative comments as that can convince the seller to never let you touch his "baby" - just objectively note work required as part of your total purchase costs. Either make an offer "as is", thus removing the uncertainty of a problematic survey and consequent renegotiation, or subject to survey results. If they don't accept the offer then either walk away or find the other 5%. Simple. The offer puts the onus on the seller and broker to show their willingness to sell at that price.

We don't know what type of boat this is, what age and condition it is in, and its location. A newer production boat, such as a Jeanneau, is going to have a well-established, narrow range of prices and a ready market so there is not a lot of room for discounting the price. Older cruising boats, and especially uncommon ones, are much more difficult to value and can be subject to larger discounting. Also, buyers are fewer if for no other reason than they are cash deals (banks don't loan on older boats). It can take a year or more to sell an older boat so the holding costs (slip fees, insurance, maintenance) puts pressure on the seller to accept a lower than desired offer. So any advice on buying has to take into account the specific situation.

[BBill]

Where I live most buyers are from out of state and need someone on the ground to do the legwork...which means they will look at boats and report for you. It also means they are representing the buyer and that means they are supposed to get the lowest price instead of sellers broker fiduciary to get the highest price. Regardless, the seller has to bring commission cuts to the broker, no one else brings it.

For negotiating, I look at the boat, figure all the work, additions or whatever have to be done to stay in my budget. I get yard estimates and use them as tools to lower the price. Then do an in water survey to decide whether to go with an out of water survey or pass. That's when I do a contract. My offers reduce the price by work needed and sellers more often than not accept my offers. I also cut the offer by whatever I think the boat is worth to me...book values mean nothing to me (except when selling) and I'm willing to pass if the money isn't right. This has worked for me on dozens of boats in the past 60ish yrs.