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Old 08-04-2022, 16:16   #16
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

$10-$12K seems much more reasonable. Even so no way that makes reasonable sense for a brand new boat unless build like total garbage, even then you would be dealing with warranties.

But makes sense for an older boat and seems reasonable about $800-$900/mo. Just find it mind boggling that a brand new boat would require $25K in maintenance according to charter companies, no matter how much it’s used.

It’s like you personally using it during the season.
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Old 08-04-2022, 16:20   #17
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

I’m picturing the blown out headsail that wasn’t furled properly, the accidental groundings, the docking mishaps, the hurricanes, etc.
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Old 08-04-2022, 16:36   #18
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

There are too many companies competing for too little business in the charter industry. Best forget it, or understand that you will probably lose money.
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Old 08-04-2022, 16:39   #19
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

Yeah def crossed it out real quick, now will probably wait for a sail electric boat that doesn’t cost 2M+ haha
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Old 08-04-2022, 16:45   #20
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

Maintenance typically costs a lot more than most people realise and charter work just makes it all much more extensive because unless the charters are crewed the users are not going to be as careful as they would with their own boats - why should they - they are paying handsomely! The old adage of 10%+ annually of the new price for a boat forever is still true.
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Old 08-04-2022, 17:22   #21
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

Most opinions here seem to come from people who have never owned a charter boat or maybe have never even chartered one.

I've owned or part own two charter boats, both Moorings boats and I've charted (including using owner's time) seven or eight times from Australia to French Polynesia to the Caribbean. The boats have always been well maintained.
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Old 08-04-2022, 17:30   #22
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

The other thing you've got to keep in mind is that a charter boat (theoretically) needs to be perfect and pristine every-time it goes out...no deferred maintenance, no "Aw. I will leave that to later—it's good enough"... Now in reality the boats are rarely in that state but it is the "goal" of the charter company to keep them there. So I imagine that gives the charter co's a lot of leeway on the work they do—mine certainly does the oddest things without telling me.
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Old 08-04-2022, 20:59   #23
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

If you think you will make money by putting your boat into charter forget it, any revenue you do make will go to covering her cost while she is in the charter fleet.
Where you do make your money is when you are not paying charter fees while you are using your own boat, which can be quite significant if you use your boat regularly.
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Old 09-04-2022, 03:59   #24
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall leslie View Post
Maintenance typically costs a lot more than most people realise and charter work just makes it all much more extensive because unless the charters are crewed the users are not going to be as careful as they would with their own boats - why should they - they are paying handsomely! The old adage of 10%+ annually of the new price for a boat forever is still true.
Sorry but that makes 0 sense and is factually false, year 1 new boat is def not 10%. You’re saying a 500k boat will cost you $50K in Maintenence year 1....what?
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Old 09-04-2022, 04:08   #25
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

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$5K seems amazingly expensive for anti-fouling paint. It costs a couple of hundred dollars for paint and supplies and a days work.
My 36' cat uses a lot more than $200 worth of anti-fouling paint and it usually takes a team of 2-3 a couple days to sand and do the multiple layers of paint. Plus lift and yard fees. At $60 an hour you're talking at least $2,500 in labor alone. If I do it myself it's even worse because I'm not as good at it and take longer and my time bills out at a much higher rate so the opportunity cost is huge. For a 40+ foot cat the surface area goes up exponentially, so $5k when you factor in all the direct costs plus the costs of running a business isn't at all outrageous.
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Old 10-04-2022, 01:17   #26
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

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Reading blog posts of people blue water cruising the world and Maintenence costs coming in at around $17K
Agree.
Going to buy something in that range for full time cruising (blue water). Maybe new or maybe TOTALLY refitted.
Nevertheless, my calculation is about 400US$ per month for maintenance. All work (or at least most of it) done by myself (I'm a practical engineer with mechanical, electric, electronic and software expierence. No deep dive in all aspects, but deep enough to fill the gaps by investing a bit more time).
ADDITIONALLY there are 600US$ in my calc for repairs (including the long term things like sails, standing and running rigg, electronic exchanges, additional installations, etc.).
Or the other way round. That's the "it depends" thing.
At least 1 kUS$ should be pretty close to the reality.
The next "it depends" things are insurance (depends on location, season and of course your sailing skills), marina costs, etc.. The "etc." things is a 1k points list So, another 3 kUS$ has to be in the calc. Maybe you can safe some two or three hundred per month, if you don't have to finance your admiral. But that's it.

Sailing isn't cheap! It is, under the bottom line, much more expensive than living in a condo. That's something you've to face. If you don't, you'll end up after 10 years with unsellable wreck.

So, to make a summery: Do you have 4 kUS$ per month (starting with a boat as I mentioned at the beginning)? --> Go sailing
If you don't have --> rethink your plannings!

There's a pretty good YT from the O'Kellys about living abroad costs. They end up at nearly 50 kUS$. That's real life and not a "I like to sail but can't believe the costs".

My first calculation was about 3kUS$. Unrealistic!!! It's one third more!
And that's just living abroad. Not a "let's have party all day" or "I don't like cooking and pay for the next lobster in a nice bayside restaurant".

I yet don't have a boat but nearly 40kNM in my wake. A bit of charter but mostly transferring yachts for a friend. So I only saw a little slice. But that convinced me to better believe what all the other, much more expirienced full time cruisers, are saying.

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Old 10-04-2022, 04:49   #27
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

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Originally Posted by Sailsail1 View Post
I want to purchase and live aboard probably between northeast and Florida.

Something else to keep in mind: if you buy a used boat, you first pass through the maintenance process might just be fixing stuff the previous owner(s) didn't.

That's not necessarily horrible; afterwards, you at least know more about what condition your boat is in.

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Old 15-04-2022, 06:54   #28
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

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$5K seems amazingly expensive for anti-fouling paint. It costs a couple of hundred dollars for paint and supplies and a days work.
Unless you keep your boat in Grenada during hurricane season and pay $400 a gallon :-) x6 gal for 40' cat then add 'boat labor' :-)
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Old 15-04-2022, 07:06   #29
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

Seems cheap from my experience with a non chartered 40’ mono hull.

I use my boat and the expenses associated with that are substantially higher than my neighbors who day sail and go on maybe one overnight a season. That charter will hopefully be working non stop so everything will wear faster plus as others have stated everything has to work. Definitely don’t underestimate what’s involved with cleaning ask anyone who operates an AirB&B what happens if a guest finds a hair.

Anyway if you look long enough online you’ll find plenty of folks who think what they’re quoting is insane. Most of the folks who think I spend too much float in one place and live much more primitively than my family will tolerate. It’s sorta like the back packer vs the motor coach in a national park and Im probably closer to motor coach without being too fancy. Now I also do all my own work and Im ABYC certified which helps lower my costs but hey it’s a sailboat.

So yeah I spend a similar amount annually on my monohull the breakdown isn’t the same of course and it’s not chartered. Oh the guy or gal that thought it was insane to spend $50k in the first year on a $500k boat I’d say the only way to avoid that would be to leave it in storage.
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Old 15-04-2022, 07:46   #30
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Re: Maintenence Costs and charter.

I suggest you start by owning a boat and using it for recreation to gain knowledge and understanding of maritime matters and determine if such is of enjoyment and interest and some awareness of the financial attributes.

And one has to determine if your intent is to live aboard [i.e., the vessel is your abode], OR whether the vessel is your business and you intend to enter the charter sector be that day charters, or crewed charter, both of which require licensing by the skipper, or to pursue bareboat charters [which is basically just a fleet rental business not unlike the car rental business, think Hertz, Avis, etc.] that are just short versions of lease financing but with massive amounts of maintenance and operational overhead because the vessel has to be cleaned and repaired between each voyage.

Charter boats are a bit like neglected horses, they are worked hard and put away wet, yet they are expected to always be kept in Bristol shape.

And note if you crew charter that the passengers will be the person's living aboard in the nice cabins and you will be relegated to the crew cabin(s) and will be working non-stop, i.e., you will not be living aboard, you will be working hard when aboard and will be living elsewhere.

Also, insurance is a very significant expense once you opt to bring passengers aboard because the liability exposure if very high. Marketing expense is very substantial because without it one is unable to book clients [figure 10 to 15% of the revenue].

Insurance for just recreational or liveaboard also becomes a substantial daily expense.

The marina fees are significant.

And you likely will need a crew if you decide to day charter or operate a crewed charter business and that comes at considerable expense and administrative effort and managerial skills.

And then there is the maintenance and operational expenses for repair / replacement parts and labor, and don't forget the fuel.

I still recall learning to sail on the San Francisco Bay wherein my Sea Scout Master told us when someone asks what it is like to own a sailboat, just say, "It is like taking a long cold shower all the while stuffing dollar bills down the drain as fast as one can." And with a wink he followed with: "A select few actually will come to enjoy such."
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