Kids Aboard vs Wait ... WHEN ?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Philipclem

Thoughts anyone?

My thoughts are that plusses and minuses to each option - IMO the key is how you handle the minuses. Whilst I would not go if doing so stuffed your kids up longterm (educationally or socially) or yourself financially........I would do so even if that involved having to put some extra effort in following your return.

IMO getting exposure to the rest of the world is a very valuable thing in itself, adding the boat / sailing stuff is a bonus.

Although I am not so much in the "Go now!" camp as some others are - the one thing I would say is to be aware that life does not always go as planned / hoped for (not always for bad reasons - circumstances simply change) and whilst you may think this is something you could do later - life may not turn out like that.......

[SV Liberty]

Go now. The challenge is the teen. 14 is already getting "up there" to be heading out. After 3+ years my 15 yr old thinks he's ready to head back to shore. But, we're in Mayaguana heading for the E. Carib. Go now. Try a year. Our first cruise was 6 months. This one is in its 4th year. Go now.

[thinwater]

All of the posters like the idea--they're the ones that respond--but if the kids LIKE the mainstream, they may hate you. Rightfully. They may want technical schooling you can't provide. There will be mainland expereinces you are depriving them of. This is not clear cut and it's NOT about what you want.

I don't think you have a clear right to decide for them. That's arrogant.

[LeaseOnLife]

A thread/post worth reading:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post733539

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by thinwater

All of the posters like the idea--they're the ones that respond--but if the kids LIKE the mainstream, they may hate you. Rightfully. They may want technical schooling you can't provide. There will be mainland expereinces you are depriving them of. This is not clear cut and it's NOT about what you want.

I don't think you have a clear right to decide for them. That's arrogant.

But that IS the point of being a parent: arrogantly making decisions about what is best for a child, balancing short term and long term gains and loses and doing it whether the child likes it or not. The goal is to foster a child who can cope and flourish in the world they find themselves in, not to be a friend to the child.

That's not to say the kids should get not input, they should, but the decision is the parents'.

There is no technical training that a normal adolescent gets that could not be easily remedied prior to or at the start of college.

[Charlie]

The family dynamic is already there. If you get on well on land you likely will get along on the boat and vice a versa. IMHO a boat intensifies relations. I have wanted to go cruising with my kids since before I had a wife. When we got married she agreed that we would go cruising but our definitions were different as to what cruising is. . . . That said my opinion is this make sure you and yor spouse are on the same page. Take a trial on a boat that is long enough to know that it isn't all fun and games. Make sure the kids know that there are chores associated with life on a boat. When the kids approach HS age I feel it is harder for them to be on a boat but there are many examples of this not being a problem. My kids both have participated in competitive sports at a high level and would have to give this up to go cruising so they see it as a non starter. My compromise has been to take the summers and buy a boat in the Med and go sailing in a smallish (10 meter) boat with my 4 family members and a nephew. They loved it and are looking forward to doing it again next summer. It is a lot more work this way as the boat prep and logistics falls completely on my shoulders but I like that part so it works out well. When the kids graduate HS I plan on sailing more. My wife doesn't like passages so she will meet me when I get somewhere she wants to be.

[Astrid]

The way I see the OP's problem is that with the kid's ranging in age from about 5 to 14, each is in a different stage of development and learning, with the oldest having by far the greater range of experiences. The younger ones are in the process of learning important social skills and how to interact with their peers, and it would be difficult for them to go on a very long voyage and then have to catch up when they rejoin society.

I think the OP should sit back and consider what experiences they had at any given age and if there was a chance that one of their kids might miss out on something that would forever have been a fond memory--a best friend from child hood, a first crush or first time in love, going to movies with friends, belonging to clubs or participating in school sport, developing hobbies (which might not be compatible with sailing), even a first job and the sense of satisfaction and financial reward that it can provide.

If the cruising life is only going to be fairly short term, then some things might be postponed, but if it is going to be a long term commitment, then one must think really hard about what is best for the children. Perhaps a boarding school might be an alternative to taking them with you and all the potential problems that might entail.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Adelie

But that IS the point of being a parent: arrogantly making decisions about what is best for a child, balancing short term and long term gains and loses and doing it whether the child likes it or not. The goal is to foster a child who can cope and flourish in the world they find themselves in, not to be a friend to the child.

That's not to say the kids should get not input, they should, but the decision is the parents'.

There is no technical training that a normal adolescent gets that could not be easily remedied prior to or at the start of college.

a. One of the kids is 14. If they leave in a year and stay out for 3 years, that is ALL of high school. No home-teacher is competent to teach all subjects at an accelerated level. There will be a short fall somewhere, and the possibilities should be most obvious.

b. Long summer cruises could accomplish most of the shipboard learning, in my opinion. Cruising as an adult is a fine thing. Perhaps certain things work best in their conventional place. You accept conventional wisdom in boat design, yet you reject it here.

c. We believe in public schools in part, as a society, are a great source of socialization. Cruising is great fun, but it is not hanging out with long-time friends.

d. One great (perhaps only in his imagination) voyager, Tristan Jones stated that there were too many attractions ashore for teenagers. He was a teenager once and probably knew what he remembered.

e. I'm not terribly impressed with the results of homeschooling I've seen. Both arrogance and gaps in background. The parents were well qualified.

------

There are a great many thing parents can decide for children that are, unfortunately, dead wrong. I am simply presenting a dissenting view for others to read. I am greatly distressed with your belief that unilateral decision making is the POINT of being a parent; it may be required and it may be a legal right, but it isn't best or wise. It's certainly contrasts with your "citizen of the world" free-thinking manifesto.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by thinwater

a. One of the kids is 14. If they leave in a year and stay out for 3 years, that is ALL of high school. No home-teacher is competent to teach all subjects at an accelerated level. There will be a short fall somewhere, and the possibilities should be most obvious.

The other captain on the sport fisher I work on took his high school aged kids cruising for four years. He was worried about it, but both of his kids (one took a final year at a local HS, the other did not) got into great colleges and it wasn't an issue at all. I used to think "home school in high school = no chance of a good school" but I haven't seen any examples of that personally.

And regarding being qualified to teach, my wife taught freshmen and sophomore high school. We're both college educated and I'm pretty sure I can get my kid through calculus at least.

[Greggegner]

I agree go now. If you are in a position to go now, you can come back after a couple of years if you think it is the right choice. I'm beefing you won't come back. I wish I could have done it...

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

And regarding being qualified to teach, my wife taught freshmen and sophomore high school. We're both college educated and I'm pretty sure I can get my kid through calculus at least.

And that is arrogant as well. I'm a bright fellow, but I know my limitations. While I could certainly teach many subjects, the person that can teach ALL courses at an advanced level--not just keep ahead in the book but have true mastery of them all--is very rare. I could perhaps teach any class... but I know I shouldn't and that I wouldn't do them the justice a team could.

Hey, the OP asked a question that deserved two viewpoints.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by thinwater

And that is arrogant as well. I'm a bright fellow, but I know my limitations. While I could certainly teach many subjects, the person that can teach ALL courses at an advanced level--not just keep ahead in the book but have true mastery of them all--is very rare. I could perhaps teach any class... but I know I shouldn't and that I wouldn't do them the justice a team could.

Hey, the OP asked a question that deserved two viewpoints.

I majored in computer science and minored in physics, and have been working in software development for over a decade doing mathematical modeling including teaching that to junior folks. My wife majored in international relations, minored in French, and is fluent in three languages. She's taught several different grades for several years. We're both avid writers and readers.

You can call it arrogant, I call it knowing where I'm at. And not to be a jerk, but I'll take my wife's opinion, as an educator, on the needs of educating kids.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

I majored in computer science and minored in physics, and have been working in software development for over a decade doing mathematical modeling including teaching that to junior folks. My wife majored in international relations, minored in French, and is fluent in three languages. She's taught several different grades for several years. We're both avid writers and readers.

You can call it arrogant, I call it knowing where I'm at. And not to be a jerk, but I'll take my wife's opinion, as an educator, on the needs of educating kids.

And is it what the kids want? Parents also select military school, Catholic school, and ordinary boarding schools, because they believe that is best. They simply can't all be right or all be wrong. It's not simple.

If the answer is yes, then go for it. You'll do fine.

[msponer]

Astrid and Thinwater, I wonder if you guys just have a more positive view of modern childhood than I do.

I actually feel that my daughters public school, apparently one of the best districts in California, is bad for her. The curriculum is entirely focused on high test scores: my daughter is drilled on practice tests, has homework for practice tests, and is not taught anything beyond the tests. She really likes math, but started to hate it because of all the repetitive work at school, so we've started to teach her the next parts at home.

Most of my daughters peers are on an 'Ivy League' life track, which means they are so busy with extracurricular activities that they have little time for open ended and creative play. Nearly everything these kids do is parent initiated, and setup in some kind of rigid structure (team sports, music lessons, and other 'hobbies').

Our society may be in the midst of tacking away from this. Last year the PTA of our (previous) school district even hosted a screening of Race to Nowhere with an open forum and ongoing conversation for parents, teachers, principals, and the super intendent to discuss if ... this modern childhood is really what we want for our children.

When I look at what has made me successful, I do not see the modern landlubbery childhood helping my daughter learn the personality traits or skills that I think are most important. So yes, part of the reason we are going sailing is for our children. I do not see it as a selfish "I want to go now, and dammit my kids are coming with me." If anything, it will be a lot harder to take them now then to wait and go when they are out of the house.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Philipclem

suburban/rural couple with three kids (14, 9 & 5) . . . Thoughts anyone?

And living in the U.S. east coast too. Here is your problem - if the kids are into their electronics - smart phones, texting, tweeting, etc. and social media interactions - you will in all probability not be able to get them to stay on board a cruising boat for more than a day or two.

It appears the newest generation has forsaken drugs and stuff for an electronic addiction to continual, instant social electronic connections. I have seen kids the ages of yours that will go into convulsions and tantrums and/or panic attacks if you physically "disconnect" their electronic connections to their friends.

Maybe the 5 year old still can be "saved" but - if - your others are the average American kids and "connected" I would suggest forgetting taking them for any long term cruising out of range of "broadband/cellular" - you have a better chance getting a heroin addict off his stuff.