Insuring a 40 year old yacht

[KerryK]

Originally Posted by hpeer

The other question is what does the insurer require in terms of inspection/survey?

I have had insurance companies require additional surveys unexpectedly and with little warning. I eventually went with liability only thinking I would avoid the survey issue. I am now being told I must have an out of water survey AND all rigging over 15 years old MUST be replace, period. $1,600US/year on a $100,000 boat, liability only. Caribbean cruising grounds, always stored inshore for hurricane season.



Wow for liability only they are pretty steep requirements and pricey! Maybe its a Caribbean thing? I will be sailing Australian water to start, then up to Pacific islands and Indonesia.



Bottom line, check what their survey requirements are. They can apparently vary widely.

Yep That is what I am finding out at the moment
Cheers Kerry

[KerryK]

Originally Posted by chrisr

a further thought : you mentioned in yr query whether to insure for 'full replacement value'

i think you will find most (all) insurers will not insure for less. one of the first questions on the proposal will be 'how much did you pay for the boat', and the insurer will pretty much insist on insuring for this value

if you can persuade them to insure the boat for say $100k (ie 50% of the value), the fine print will say that they will pay any claim on that same share

as for insurers paying / not paying claims, it is a bit of a lottery. a lot comes down to the assessor's report...and how hard you are willing to fight. i once spent well over $150k taking one of the main aussie marine insurers to court (over a fairly small claim). we did not get all the claim, but we did get costs...which was highly satisfying !

is your prospective new boat on the lake ? be careful you can get her out the channel !!

cheers,

Thanks for that, I was wondering about the under insurance angle, so very useful input. The guy that went over the boat for me also works as a marine assessor and his comments about insurance companies in part prompted my question 'they will fight tooth and nail'...



Glad you had a win !


the Boat is in Sydney, I will put in Nelson Bay for easier access to open water!


Cheers Kerry

[jordanbigel]

I'm curious about this thread where some people are saying that boat yards, and marinas, will not accept boats without COMPREHENSIVE insurance coverage. That has never been my experience, in Australia and NZ in the early 2000s, and in California during the last 10 years - marinas do require LIABILITY insurance with a min coverage of $300k, but I have not seen any requirement beyond that for marinas.

I have hauled out at 3 different yards in the last 5 years (long story, some of them were not planned) - 2 in the US and 1 in Baja and only the Baja one required proof of LIABILITY insurance, as did a marina in Baja, but neither required Comprehensive insurance.

In which areas of the world do boat yards and marinas really require Comprehensive insurance and not Liability only? Thanks.

PS. I plan to return to S. Pac and NZ/Australia in the next few years so I am keen to understand if the rules have changed with regards to insurance requirements since I have never carried comprehensive insurance, nor do I plan to in the future. Liability insurance is affordable and if it is required, as it is here in California, I have no problem carrying it.

[Fore and Aft]

Jordanbigel you can start with Tin Can bay marina here in Queensland, comprehensive for the yard and marina. Then ring all the marina's within 2 hours drive of there and hear the same story. Kawana Waters only requires Third party but with wreck removal. To make it easy for you Monty's and Redland bay City marina are the only ones who don't ask for insurance.
This is not just a casual they might not ask for it thing. Marina's like Tin Can bay ask for my new insurance certificate week's before I even get my renewal invoice. Same with last week at one marina the boat was in the lift, the owner was asked for insurance documents. He had none so he was asked to leave.
The good old days of being a grotty yachtie and doing things on the cheap are fast disappearing. There's a lot more people/money at stake in the current marine scene and marina's and boatyards can dictate the rules.
I for one miss those cheaper days, but it's all part of progress.
Cheers

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

The good old days of being a grotty yachtie and doing things on the cheap are fast disappearing. There's a lot more people/money at stake in the current marine scene and marina's and boatyards can dictate the rules.
I for one miss those cheaper days, but it's all part of progress.
Cheers

Wow, definitely different from when I was there. We hauled out in 2002 in Bundaberg for bottom job, then again in 2005 in Cairns, and we spent a few weeks at marinas in and around Cairns, and in Bundaberg, and one in Scarborough near Brisbane, and on the Brisbane River - no one ever asked us for insurance proof of any kind, not even liability.

As for grotty yachties, I've known a couple and some were very nice people. A family of Aussies on an engineless, home built boat come to mind - salts of the earth. Would give you the shoes off their feet to help another (if they wore shoes, which they do not). And while my boat, and crew, would never be considered grotty, I still cannot afford to waste thousands a year on something which has almost no utility to me at all (I'd rather spend it to keep my boat from becoming grotty).

So, yeah. Part of progress? If you say so. (how do you make that head-slamming emoji - imagine one here).

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by roverhi

My boat is 53 years old and have it insured by Markel for $35,000 with $500,000 Liability coverage required by marina. Over the last few years the premium has increased by more than a $100 a year and is now knocking on the door of a $1,000. We had a current survey when we first insured and had to do an in the water hull survey about 5 years into ownership. Haven't had any survey requirement for the last 7 years, wonder if they forgot about me?? Had to do a separate rig survey to get the mast, rig and sails insured but that was almost 10 years ago.

Rover,

It is Markel that is requiring my rig survey. 35 year old steel boat.

I have found a different insurer who does not require any survey under $150,000 value, but they are a bit more expensive than our last comprehensive quote. Maybe not now though.

Sometimes I think my Markel problems are more because of the broker than the carrier. One “associate” who handled our policy was a flat mess and others complained of her also. The current person handling our account is better, but I still have little confidence she understands much of what I say or advocates for me.

[LakeSuperior]

It really depends on how big the $200k number is relative to your net worth. If you end up with a total loss, do you lose the farm also? That is, are you betting the farm by not having comprehensive coverage.

If not, I would get liability only and rely on my skill and wits to keep the boat whole.

Do you want to do "Mother may I" with your insurer every time it gets to be summer in the Caribbean or you want to make a trans-oceanic passage?

Then IMHO, I would use the annual insurance savings to fund new electronics, fuel filters, clean the fuel tanks, rebuild the engine, inspect the rudder linkages and keel bolts, and invest in safety gear.

You might ask yourself, who builds the largest, most opulent office buildings besides banks?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by KerryK

I have been reading this forum and other places about the woes of marine insurance. I am in the process of buying a 40yo 55' solid grp ketch. and finding insurance "interesting". Whist having plenty of sailing experience it has been about 20 years since I last owned a yacht, and that was smaller and cheaper!



My question is, is it worth insuring a 40yo boat for full replacement value ($200K A$)? I am getting quoted for around A$4500/year.


Thanks for any advice on insurance.
Cheers!

I have a much older grp sailboat 55 years. I am insured through progressive at 26 bucks a month for half million liability and a million epa cleanup.

But my investment is well under 5,000.

The decision to go liability ( all marinas require this ) and full replacement .

Simple way is can you afford to loose it all or not. If yes then liability only. If not then full coverage.
Don't forget the personal effects onboard in your calculations.

[Clivevon]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

I am with club marine, my cost is about 1.4% of agreed value, similar aged boat.

Ditto except I am with Pantaenius.

[hpeer]

When I contacted Pantaenius a few years ago I was told they won’t write a policy under $300k.

[Clivevon]

Not my experience in UK

[hpeer]

Thanks.

I have seen this reported elsewhere on this forum, one persons interactions with an insurance company get very different results from another .

It seems very odd.

Perhaps they have different minimum coverage amounts for different regions?

The rules change quickly?

[waterman46]

Many things to consider. The chance of a total loss of any boat, if well maintained, are so low that if you own the.boat free of lien, if its value is not a major portion of your net worth and marina only needs liability coverage, it makes little sense to pay the current exorbitant premiums for full comprehensive insurance.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Thanks.

I have seen this reported elsewhere on this forum, one persons interactions with an insurance company get very different results from another .

It seems very odd.

Perhaps they have different minimum coverage amounts for different regions?

The rules change quickly?

Also likely has to do with how one speaks with the underwriting agent

[hpeer]

I have been very aware of this.

Generally the expanded requirements come as emails after some months of no contact. The last 2 did.