How to buy a craigslist boat and not get ripped off

[PatDog]

This is my first post here and hopefully, if all goes well, not my last. Thanks in advance for the advice.

I am looking at purchasing my first sailboat and have a boat I want to make an offer on. I am in Commiefornia and the boat is in Florida so, logistics are messy. I am planning on flying out to see the boat and make a deposit to hold the boat if I want it with balance paid within 2 weeks (owner has agreed to this).

What should I look for in terms of making sure the boat gets transferred into my name, making sure it doesn't get sold after I have given my deposit, and not being able to actually take full possession of the boat for a month or two (owner says I may be able to keep it where it is). Any suggestions on how best to deal with a long distance purchase? We are talking about a boat under $30K. $5k deposit.

[Orin]

Woah.
So, I assume you’ve purchased boats before and have a specific reason for wanting a boat east of the Panama Canal?
Are you doing your own survey or someone else’s?
Negotiating price before a deposit? You know it’s impossible to haggle on price if he’s holding 5k.
Speaking of 5k is too much IMO. Enough to cover moorage, insurance, and $500 extra is enough to show you’re earnest in most cases. A signed agreement is what I’ve done in the past. “To hold the boat in it’s current condition without sale to another individual”. You know. Language like that anyway.

I personally would sooner make a half priced offer on a boat near where I am than have to negotiate from a position of weakness.

[Nauticus]

Hi [emoji846]
Orin raises some very valid points. I would guess this may be your first boat purchase. It seems as if you're in a hurry. My personal experience is that I tend to look at hundreds of boats on various media sources. Of those I'll contact 20 maybe for more info. Of those I'll physically visit every close boat before extended travel to others as my focus narrows. When I add all the travel and expenses to the price I ask myself if I would pay that travel price for the boat if it was for sale in my local marina? Usually no.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

Fair winds [emoji569][emoji1] and keep us posted on your buying adventures.

[Jim Cate]

Umm... are you planning to relocate to FLA or to ship the boat to your current area?

If the latter, I'd drop the idea and look for a boat closer to home. Between shipping costs and the costs of inspection it's hard to make fiscal sense of this plan. There are plenty of boats in California, and they are likely to be better suited to sailing in that environment than one from the shallow waters and lighter winds of Fla.

Jim

[PatDog]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the legal verbiage, I need to find a good contract.
I am going to relocate to Florida and live/work from the boat. I work remote so, all I need is basic wifi. I am in a bit of a rush, for reasons I'd rather not get into but, the plan is to refit the boat for 6-12 months in Florida and sail south eventually. Not interested in staying in this God forsaken state I was born in for any longer than necessary. My problem is, I really love the boat and it's calling me. I know, I've already broken the first rule by falling for a certain boat but, it is what it is.

[Orin]

Originally Posted by PatDog

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the legal verbiage, I need to find a good contract.
I am going to relocate to Florida and live/work from the boat. I work remote so, all I need is basic wifi. I am in a bit of a rush, for reasons I'd rather not get into but, the plan is to refit the boat for 6-12 months in Florida and sail south eventually. Not interested in staying in this God forsaken state I was born in for any longer than necessary. My problem is, I really love the boat and it's calling me. I know, I've already broken the first rule by falling for a certain boat but, it is what it is.

My normal bit of advise is don’t put the cart before the horse. Move out there, get situated with a hotel, friend, air bnb, tent, camper - whatever gets you there... then buy the boat. I had a friend who would always advertise on Seattle Craigslist even tho at the time we were east of the mountains here. He figured anyone who would drive all the way out would buy the car or whatever despite the faults. It’s similar to a sunk cost fallacy... being that they are so invested in the car/ whatever by the time they get there. Plus you’ll need a home base for working on the boat at first anyway. There is no point for most people to delay and pay storage. If that’s the case, then just wait and buy a boat when you’re ready to move.

I think every boat is a bit of a love affair. If you are willing to do whatever it takes, and have the time - be careful. If you find yourself knee deep in projects that you have to read entire books to get done don’t be surprised. Any boat large enough to live on is going to have projects. It’s not hard to spend 6-12 months just on the basics.

Regardless of what boat you end up with, it’s well worth it to study up. It doesn’t hurt to have a boat with a solid reputation - that way after it’s made nice it’s valuable. Boats make no financial sense - no matter how you split it. There are better investments, cheaper ways to live etc.

The value of the boat is what it is to you. Keep in mind the things that are hard to change and fix vs easy for you. If you get a survey, which I would encourage before a second trip out, read the entire thing and research what it takes to fix each item. Insurance will likely require a survey anyway, and you can negotiate better with one.

Make sure you’ll have the capital to complete any recommendations the survey finds. I’d plan on doing 100% of the work myself with no shortcuts.

With a boat in that price range a lot will come up on the survey, hopefully nothing too unexpected.

If it were a cheaper boat, which you could absolutely do - I might just advise sticking your head everywhere it will fit on the boat - including some places that take effort to make it fit. Turn every thru hull, test every burner and light, start the engine, jump up and down lightly everywhere on deck, tap every cleat etc.

Sorry for being so wordy. These things have a tendency to turn into broader topics.

[jlcarreiro]

I'd move there first, get settled and then look at purchasing a boat. 30k is a big mistake for me.

[jim King]

Anything over $10,000 I'd advise a survey. You can word your purchase price agreement with down payment subject to a satisfactory survey. If the survey comes up with massive negatives you should be able to recover your down payment or adjust the purchase price accordingly.
cheers,
Jim

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by PatDog

...........What should I look for in terms of making sure the boat gets transferred into my name, making sure it doesn't get sold after I have given my deposit, and not being able to actually take full possession of the boat for a month or two (owner says I may be able to keep it where it is). Any suggestions on how best to deal with a long distance purchase? We are talking about a boat under $30K. $5k deposit.

1. Have a Purchase Agreement, which price, deposit and contingencies (sea trail, surveys) and sale completion date signed by Seller and yourself.
2. Use an escrow company to hold the deposit UNTIL the Bill of Sale (AFTER all the contingencies are agreed to) is notarized by the Seller AND state registration document, if not documented, is signed by the Seller and provided to you.

https://www.escrow.com/learn-more/ho...ks/boat-escrow

3. Use a marine title company, if you want it documented, otherwise take the state registration to the local department of motor vehicle to transfer title.
4. Do not assume you can keep the boat where it is - have berth application "approved" by the marina with your insurance company letter to them naming them as an additional insured.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Orin

My normal bit of advise is don’t put the cart before the horse. Move out there, get situated with a hotel, friend, air bnb, tent, camper - whatever gets you there... then buy the boat. I had a friend who would always advertise on Seattle Craigslist even tho at the time we were east of the mountains here. He figured anyone who would drive all the way out would buy the car or whatever despite the faults. It’s similar to a sunk cost fallacy... being that they are so invested in the car/ whatever by the time they get there. Plus you’ll need a home base for working on the boat at first anyway. There is no point for most people to delay and pay storage. If that’s the case, then just wait and buy a boat when you’re ready to move.

I think every boat is a bit of a love affair. If you are willing to do whatever it takes, and have the time - be careful. If you find yourself knee deep in projects that you have to read entire books to get done don’t be surprised. Any boat large enough to live on is going to have projects. It’s not hard to spend 6-12 months just on the basics.

Regardless of what boat you end up with, it’s well worth it to study up. It doesn’t hurt to have a boat with a solid reputation - that way after it’s made nice it’s valuable. Boats make no financial sense - no matter how you split it. There are better investments, cheaper ways to live etc.

The value of the boat is what it is to you. Keep in mind the things that are hard to change and fix vs easy for you. If you get a survey, which I would encourage before a second trip out, read the entire thing and research what it takes to fix each item. Insurance will likely require a survey anyway, and you can negotiate better with one.

Make sure you’ll have the capital to complete any recommendations the survey finds. I’d plan on doing 100% of the work myself with no shortcuts.

With a boat in that price range a lot will come up on the survey, hopefully nothing too unexpected.

If it were a cheaper boat, which you could absolutely do - I might just advise sticking your head everywhere it will fit on the boat - including some places that take effort to make it fit. Turn every thru hull, test every burner and light, start the engine, jump up and down lightly everywhere on deck, tap every cleat etc.

Sorry for being so wordy. These things have a tendency to turn into broader topics.

Sage advice!

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by PatDog

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the legal verbiage, I need to find a good contract.
I am going to relocate to Florida and live/work from the boat. I work remote so, all I need is basic wifi. I am in a bit of a rush, for reasons I'd rather not get into but, the plan is to refit the boat for 6-12 months in Florida and sail south eventually. Not interested in staying in this God forsaken state I was born in for any longer than necessary. My problem is, I really love the boat and it's calling me. I know, I've already broken the first rule by falling for a certain boat but, it is what it is.

I have bought a couple boats in Florida over the years while living in the PNW. . Be sure to check the boat out carefully. Even a boat "not needing work" can be too much work. FYI: Motels and rental cars are super cheap in Florida. Spend a week and look around at other boats and places.
-I have bought $300k boats with less than a $5k deposit, so keep that in mind.
-Inspect the boat well, and DONT GO WITH THE ATTITUDE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BUY IT! Most boats look far worse in person.
- I asked one seller to go to the boat and call me. Then asked specific questions when he was there. "Is the gel coat powdery and flat or shiny? Does your hand come away white if you rub it along the gel coat?"
-I would find a marine escrow/title change company to do the paperwork and protect you. Yeah, it might cost $500, but your risk goes away. I used one in Florida once but cant remember the name. They may have a contract. There are many crooks out there.
-I have an old contract sample if you want one, Use at your own risk.
-Key things that are big cost on an old boat:
* Fuel and water tanks. Sometimes they are buried. If under the cabin sole they are often leaking.
* Sails; can cost as much as the boat sometimes!
*Engine: make sure it's good. many people claim "it was rebuilt a few years ago" with no proof.
* Bottom condition; Bad blisters can be a huge undertaking.

-Negotiate after looking at the boat. Negotiate after inspection. many boats can be bought for up to 40% off.
-One consideration is: How long on the market? Sellers who are just starting to sell think their boat is worth more . Sellers who have been selling for a year are ready to negotiate.
-Make sure your purchase agreement allows you to walk away for any reason after inspection with a full deposit refund.

Escrow info: https://www.escrow.com/learn-more/ho...ks/boat-escrow
A broker may tell you who can do a boat title transaction near the boat. Here's one: https://www.marinetitle.com/boat-reg...FL-Florida.htm

[sail sfbay]

[QUOTE=PatDog;3405574].........I need to find a good contract.........../QUOTE]

What you need a Purchase Agreement which you find free on-line like the one in the link below. Key terms should include "Subject to: Trial Run; Marine Survey; Mechanical Inspection. Trail Run, Marine Survey and Haul out, and Mechanical Inspection to be completed within 3 weeks of an accepted offer." Once the contingencies are accepted then BUYER signs a Bill of Sale (see link to one below) and SELLER has his signature notarized then provides it to you.

https://www.legalcontracts.com/contr...a_id=125659419

https://www.formfindr.com/bill-of-sa...f3f6d0d871bbf8

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by PatDog

This is my first post here and hopefully, if all goes well, not my last. Thanks in advance for the advice.

I am looking at purchasing my first sailboat and have a boat I want to make an offer on. I am in Commiefornia and the boat is in Florida so, logistics are messy. I am planning on flying out to see the boat and make a deposit to hold the boat if I want it with balance paid within 2 weeks (owner has agreed to this).

What should I look for in terms of making sure the boat gets transferred into my name, making sure it doesn't get sold after I have given my deposit, and not being able to actually take full possession of the boat for a month or two (owner says I may be able to keep it where it is). Any suggestions on how best to deal with a long distance purchase? We are talking about a boat under $30K. $5k deposit.

Commiefornia? haha - I've always referred to it as the PRK (People's Republik of Kalifornia) Given the low value, a survey might be overkill (then again, maybe not) You'll want a title transfer which means you'll probably be registering it in Florida - should you get it back to Commiefornia (luv that) the taxman will surely be EAGERLY awaiting your arrival. Don't forget, the Panama Canal ain'[t cheap and it's along bash upstream) Maybe trucking it would be an option.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

Commiefornia? haha - I've always referred to it as the PRK (People's Republik of Kalifornia) Given the low value, a survey might be overkill (then again, maybe not) You'll want a title transfer which means you'll probably be registering it in Florida - should you get it back to Commiefornia (luv that) the taxman will surely be EAGERLY awaiting your arrival. Don't forget, the Panama Canal ain'[t cheap and it's along bash upstream) Maybe trucking it would be an option.

Yeah, he's gonna have to choose: Commiefornia or joining the KKK in Florida!

[PatDog]

Thanks for all the replies, I truly appreciate it. Right off the bat I know the boat needs some standing rigging replaced, the flush deck had the teak removed and needs paint (which means deck repair), 1 of 2 fuel tanks has been emptied for repair, and the boat is in the water with no way to haul out anytime soon (solid core fb hull). Got the price to 22k and it's a 43 foot boat with the perfect layout and location for my plans. I am planning on project and not afraid of the work, just the costs of material etc. Seller is insisting on non-refundable deposit after inspection/agreement to purchase as he says he has another buyer lined up. I can keep the boat at the dock where it is until I locate to a yard for bottom work. Man, I'm already overwhelmed.