How Did You Decide?

[sail sfbay]

When you bought your boat how did you decide among all the available options? Made a list of all the options I wanted.

What did you do? Bought an older, low priced 31 ft sailboat to gain experienc on what I wanted in a sailboat then moved up to a 38.5 ft sailboat and eventually bought a 46 ft sailboat, which is very comfortable for cruising.

Did you have a list of must haves/ desired features and nice but not necessary items? Yes........long waterline, heavy displacement, capsize ration < 2.0, high comfort ratio (https://wavetrain.net/2011/10/15/cru...-comfort-ratio), navigation electronics, autopilot, large galley, 3 cabins, large cockpit, in-mast furling sail, etc.

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by dannc

We really do not like V berths. On some boats, you have to be a gymnast to get in an out of the V berth. This would be easier if there were hand holds, but handholds, which should be obvious to have, are not always in place.

We also do not like berths crammed up against the hull. Too much gymnastics to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

There are just sooooo many feature and compromises on boats, and one has to figure out what is most important for them.

Later,
Dan

Thanks for the bit on V berth and berths crammed against the hull. My beloved spouse was reading over my shoulder and he empathically agreed. I really appreciate you outlining your thought process. I have considered the placement of the mainsheet because I've seen some cockpits where the traveler is right in front of the companionway and that seems both hazardous and annoying. As we reach retirement age bathroom trips in the dark are going to be a real issue. I am filtering through the many responses and similar to life I will apply some to myself and my situation but hopefully have the grace to learn from everything.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

Thanks for the bit on V berth and berths crammed against the hull. My beloved spouse was reading over my shoulder and he empathically agreed. I really appreciate you outlining your thought process. I have considered the placement of the mainsheet because I've seen some cockpits where the traveler is right in front of the companionway and that seems both hazardous and annoying. As we reach retirement age bathroom trips in the dark are going to be a real issue. I am filtering through the many responses and similar to life I will apply some to myself and my situation but hopefully have the grace to learn from everything.

It's very rarely if ever totally dark on a sailboat.

I usually have the depth finder light on at the very least. I don't have an anchor alarm so I at least like to see if the depth is within 2'-3' of what it was when I fell asleep.

That depth might be different depending on where you are.....

Most times though Moon light is enough and my hatchway is usually open so there is a light difference.

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Your gonna be living in a RV. Things are not as robust or simple as normal household things. Better know how to fix plumbing and make sure you have all your hepatitis shots before you fix the head. You are gonna get poo on you. Or you hire it all when you get back to port.

This caused a huge laugh over my way, my husband works with sewage and wastewater. That being said when it comes to our future boat I will likely be handling most plumbing issues. I can fix most basic issues now, but thankfully, books and YouTube are around to close the knowledge gap.

[Jaqun]

There is allot of good info here. Buying a smaller boat is a great way to get experince both in sailing and to make your buying mistakes on a smaller scale.
We just sold our smaller boat (Freedom 30) and bought our forever/liveaboard boat (Caliber 40)
After we listed all our criteria, must/haves, would/likes and can/do/withouts, we made a list of boat that fit and shopped based on CONDITION. Don't know what your budget is but Condition was our main concern. Whatever your price point, condition can vary dramatically. Found a slightly older boat than many of the ones we looked at but it was maintained and updated really well and we are very happy with our purhcase.
Good Luck.

[jim King]

You will find that any boat you choose will be a compromise. The main compromises are going to be: 1 comfort, 2 speed and 3 cost. I guess if you have an unlimited budget you can get both speed and comfort, but keeping cost in mind you have to need to deal with the other 2. Are you going to be sailing long distances regularly or will you be mostly at anchor. I like to make short hops and nestle down at anchor for several days. So, for me, speed is not so much an issue. Comfort has always been my top priority and for that reason I choose a 45' catamaran. It rocks much less than a monohull when at anchor and has vastly more space. You are also raised up in the galley where you have a 360 degree view.
As others have said, it is a good idea to buy something less than perfect to start with and get experience under your belt. Also racing on other peoples boats will teach you more and faster than anything else. Chartering boats the likes of which you would like to someday own will also give you the opertunity to test drive what you might someday own to determine if it is what you really want.
cheers,
jim

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by skipmac

My list and reasons.

40-45' Enough room for my needs but not too big to easily handle shorthanded.
Cutter rig. Simpler rig, more efficient upwind.
Center cockpit/aft cabin. More private cabin for me, separate area for family and guests.
Moderate draft for the Bahamas and ICW.
Around $100k. Because if I had spent more I would still be in the dog house, and that's the one in the back yard under the tree.

This is the kind of thing I was hoping for when I started this thread. Thank you so much for answering my question. I read most every sailing magazine I can get my hands on, blogs abound, YouTube, and published books and as I sort through it all I am making a list. As we take classes and gain experience with our sailing club the list is refined. My approach to life has always been to benefit from the experience of others and this endeavor has a wealth of information and I appreciate that I can use this forum to harvest wisdom.

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Firstly, the most important thing of all is to get out there and sail. My own opinion is that racing on other people's boats is the best single way to experience many different boats, and their layouts, and absorb lots about sailing.

Next: "You are gonna get poo on you. Or you hire it all when you get back to port." This is, unfortunately pretty close to true. You may not get poo on you early in the affair with boats, but heads to block up. My Jim treats the water with bleach before he starts getting dirty. The good part is that skin does a good job of keeping the bacteria on the outside.

Jim knew what he wanted in this boat. So there was a list of non-negotiable requirements, 21 of them, as I recall. Monohull, no split rigs, cutter preference; fin keel, skeg rudder, no saildrives, berths parallel to centerline of boat, handholds; good engine access, water tight bulkheads fore and aft, sit down nav station, aft cockpit (don't like center cockpits, and they devote too much of their space to where you actually only spend a small amount of time. We like the open feel, rather than all crowded up. The list was based on sailing on OPB's, and owning a series of ever longer monohulls, and many years sailing. We had already crossed the Pacific when we chose this boat, and it is a one off.

All for now.

Ann

Great info, Thanks Ann

Bookdocking

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I started following this forum in 2010, became serious about pursuing the dream around 2015, and realized I had a skills and knowledge gap.


In 2018 I bought my first large sailboat (24'). I sailed it locally for two years and sold it at the end of 2019, replacing it with a newer and slightly larger sailboat. I sailed this locally and trailered it to larger bodies of water for two years and it is now for sale. We intend to replace it with something larger (38'-40') though probably not until the beginning of the 2023 season.


Our selection criteria for that boat are being driven by:

1. Sufficient space for a couple on a longer trip or four people for a week
2. No larger than necessary, because a larger boat requires more strength and stamina, so hastening the dawn of the day we can no longer sail it
3. Low long-term cost of ownership and high reliability, which leads us to choices like a conventional main (vs in-mast), inboard drive (vs saildrive or v-drive), and fixed keel.
4. Good fit size wise for available slips and facilities
5. Reasonable sailing ability particularly in light airs and upwind
6. Sea kindliness
7. Sufficient air movement below decks
8. Good access to the water for swimming and diving
9. Uncluttered foredeck (leading us to avoid cutter rigs)
10. Up-to-date equipment, rig, sails, auxiliary, etc. that matches our needs so that we don't face a broad refit in the first few years of ownership
11. Use of durable materials that age well for things like portlights (metal frame with tempered glass preferred) and interior cabinetry and fixtures
12. Designed for safe movement while under way, handholds, gimballed range, not excessively beamy.

This is leading us towards boats made by Tartan, Catalina, and Sabre in the 36'-40' size range and certain specific years. We are thinking in terms of a $200,000 acquisition budget including purchase price, costs related to finding and buying the boat, initial refit, and commissioning.

I want to throw you a parade! This is a great list and beautifully answers what I asked. Thank you so much

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Just finishing a major refit of our Willard 36 trawler that we've owned for 23 years. She spent most of her life in San Francisco but we are headed south through Central America and home to Florida. I can share some thoughts on our choices that are mostly applicable whether sail or power.

1. Ventilation. We added several opening ports to improve airflow through the boat.

2. Slip size. We own a slip that will barely accommodate our 36-footer. Frankly, would have made a lot more sense to buy a slightly larger boat but then would not have a place to store it. Regardless, you have to consider where you will berth.

3. Covered outdoor space. Someplace to lounge. Speaking of which, comfortable seats. I am amazed at how shallow seating is in many boats. Not comfortable for long periods.

4. Dinghy storage. We replaced a mast/ boom and installed a pipe-crane davit to more easily hoist a dinghy.

5. Air Draft. Depending on your cruising grounds, this can be a consideration. Harder with a sailboat, but there are some areas with fixed bridges.

6. Draft. We live in St Pete and there's a fair amount of skinny water. Plan is the Bahamas. For a powerboat, protected prop is important as it let's you probe skinny water with less concern. Sailboat draft can limit options in some areas.

7. Outdoor sleeping space. We reconfigured our fkybridge to have two long parallel benches that are almost 30 inches wide. We also installed a hard top for rain protection.

8. Berth that doesn't require climbing over your partner. We had a forward quarterberth (head forward ) which wasn't great, especially in hot weather . We reconfigured our stateroom. Into a v-berth. Bow of a trawler is much wider than a sailboat so the berths are wide and comfortable. Downside is bunks forward are not usable underway unless calm weather, but a tradeoff we are happy with.

9. Engine room access. This is a problem on many, many sailboats. Even on my trawler, engine space is cramped due to two 225 gallon saddle tanks. But still much better than many sailboats. Working on equipment (not just engine) is a fact of life. Need room for mechanic stuff like pumps, compressors, etc.

10. No exterior woodwork. Boat had heavy thick caprails that I simply hated maintaining (sistership photo gives a sense of original, which is a modest amount of wood by trawler standards). . And that was in San Francisco. God forbid the work in hot climate. So I had the caprails encapsulated in fiberglass and sprayed with Alexseal.

11. Simplicity, close to water. We both have a strong draw towards old, classic designs (1970 model of a Wm Garden design - Weebles is the last of 39 hulls launched by Willard Vega out of Costa Mesa CA. First was launched in 1961) .
I also attached a picture of a sistership showing the large covered cockpit.

Attachment 250510
Attachment 250511

I'm feeling kind of silly but I do want to show my appreciation for those who answered my question. Thanks so much I am very grateful.

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

Since waitlists at the harbor nearest me can be 6-10 years or more I always start with the biggest boat that will fit in the space I have to keep it. So 30' slip meant 33' overall, marinas measure boats like Sony does TV's, on the diagonal so my 32' boat is 33'9" by them.
After that the list was:
Lead fin keel, no wood exposed to weather, conventional main, Perkins or Yanmar preferred engines.
Shortlist was Catalina 320 or Beneteau 323, I'd had a Catalina 270 from which the 320 was designed. I'd sailed both boats a bit and the Cat was just a better fit for us.
Have you looked into slip availablity near you ?

Yes we have, liveaboard availability is limited and getting smaller for instance a few pet friendly marinas a year ago are pet friendly no longer. Slip fees are always in our mind, though we don't intend to spend to much time in Marinas because my goal is to be off the grid as much as possible.

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by gamayun

If I recall correctly, it went kinda like this.

1) Ooooh, I like sailing. It's much more efficient than a power boat for cruising the world.

2) Holy sh$#. Heeling in 15 knots is scary! Tell me again what's the difference between a jibe and tack? What's that thingee called holding up the boom?

3) I wanna buy a boat. Specifically, a shoal draft, easy sailing boat that I can cruise around the calm waters of the Chesapeake.

4) Err, nevermind. Now I've moved to San Francisco Bay and it might be better to find a deeper keel boat for bigger wind. I wonder if I would like ocean sailing?

5) Holy sh$#. Heeling in 30 knots is so much fun. I wonder if I can singlehand on my own?

I figured out that I would want to be able to dive my boat, live on it, and not look too bad on race days. It also needed to be a simple set up because I still didn't know that much about sailing, I researched as many boats as possible that were under 70K (my budget) and made a short list of 25 that I went to see one weekend in the Pacific Northwest area. I still have that spreadsheet if you'd like to see it. It was in a matrix format so I could better balance the pros/cons of each boat.

Basically, I took the plunge when I was ready and felt like I knew enough to be dangerous. My motto is "what's the worst that could happen?" The answer was I'd hate the boat and sell it for few bucks less than I paid for it.

At some point, we each have to accept that to ring the most out of life, you have to accept some level of risk with the possibility of failure. Just know that very few of those risks will actually kill you. Some will slow you down. Some will cost you money. But most will teach you so many amazing things that you never knew you needed to learn. You will be so enriched by the process no matter what. So my advice is to do the best you can to research and assess everything you think you need to know and then just go for it. Trust yourself. Don't overthink it to paralysis. You will find that a few holy sh$# moments really make life worth living.

Good luck!!

Don't know you but I love you, this was so much fun to read

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I don't understand the responses here. OP asked how experienced sailors chose their boats, what attributes were important, what influenced their choices, etc.. Instead, OP is getting advice on how OP needs more experience - go back to the end of the line.

Personally, sounds like a good question for any experience level. Much of the allure of boats is how varied they are and how each finds a fan-base.

Peter

Thank you. The responses are a mixed bag but I am enjoying the ride.

[Cheechako]

In the end it almost always comes down to finding the right boat in the right condition at the right price.
All those "wanna haves" as far as layout etc are really far less important than you think once you spend time aboard. It's a fixed space, so what you gain one place, takes away from another.
Know what the BASICS of what you want are. (length, keel/rudder type, etc.) Go find her.

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

In the next five years my husband and I will be purchasing our first sailboat to liveaboard and cruise.
When you bought your boat how did you decide among all the available options?
I understand 1) PRICE 2)Intended use 3)level of comfort all to be important deciding factors in making a decision but I still feel flush with far too many options in my future.
What did you do? Did you have a list of must haves/ desired features and nice but not necessary items?
I need to climb into, if you'll pardon the disturbing image, as many sailors brains as possible. If you'd be so kind, tell me your needs and how you met them, what you decided to disregard and so on, resources you utilized, the most helpful advice you received. Thanks in advance for any responses, I really appreciate the input.

I guess if you made it this far you may be ready for storytime
Our plan is for five years because we are waiting for our youngest to finish high school and hopefully at 21 be ready to stand on his own. We are in a local sailing club, we are taking classes and gaining experience, our next 5 years of family vacations will likely include chartering boats of different kinds. We had hoped our teenage sons would want to venture out with us but since they don't we pushed our boat buying plans. We don't come from sailing families, we don't really know any sailors yet, I was hoping to pool the group experience and benefit from the shared wisdom. I am hoping to use this forum to gain more perspectives in addition to the sailing magazines, boat reviews, blog posts I read, YouTube watched, layouts, and docks I walk.