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Old 28-09-2018, 09:56   #16
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Before the internet, how many sailors wrote boring travelogues or magazine articles or gave talks to fund their lifestyle?

If their story inspires you to change your life, you got your money's worth. Most of the time it won't. So what? You've probably bought albums to fund rockstar lifestyles or watched movies that funded celebrity lifestyles. Are these people more deserving than sailors?

It's not as if we give all our money to charity or research. If we did, we wouldn't have such cool boats.
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Old 28-09-2018, 13:48   #17
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
Youtube is the new cable TV. People who complain about content-creators wanting / asking for VOLUNTARY contributions for what amounts to lots of hard, expensive work for people to view for free are probably the same people who ask graphic designers and professional photographers to work for them "for the exposure".
Great point. My wife is an artist and many of our friends are in the arts as well either visual or music and it is amazing how few people consider the difficulty making a living in any of these fields and every little bit helps. Any amount matters. These youtubers are the far more entertaining and less scripted and rehashed.
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Old 28-09-2018, 13:54   #18
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Ref the TV thing. In the US TV used to be free, paid for by the occasional commercial.
Now you pay for TV, either cable or Satellite, and the commercials are even more frequent.

I don't see what the fuss is all about. You can watch these channels for free and they usually come out at the same time as the videos on Patreon. I've had questions answered by interacting with the people and every single one that I support are honest hardworking people making a living. They just do it with a a camera while sailing. Pretty dang smart if you ask me!

There are even a couple of channels that don't ask for money for themselves as they can afford their sailing adventures but to donate money to charities like the Sailing Warrior Program. This is a great organization that I enjoy supporting but didn't know about until I started following SV Happy Together.


As for the quote above, TV is still free as long as you have an HD antenna which is how we watch on our boat. It's better than the Directv we have on our boat since we don't have a HD Sat Dish. There's no banging or tin foil but I do remember those days (5 channels and I was the remote). You can also get HD antennas for your home. You don't get 2000 channels but you'll get the local stuff and a few channels that are on the cable/satellite networks.


Now if you'll excuse me, I'll get back to watching RAN Sailing. They're in Alaska and the title is "On Collision Course With A Bear". I'm excited to see how this turns out.
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Old 28-09-2018, 15:17   #19
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
This seems to be the new ‘most repeated’ topic here on CF...

People who are producing quality content, and then encouraging their readers/viewers to pay something, are not begging for money. They are doing exactly the same thing previous generations of writers and film makers did. The only difference is the payment mechanisms have changed.

In the past you’d get a magazine or film contract, with an agreed fee, from a publisher/producer. In this day of “everyone can be a writer/videographer” content has been devalued, so few fixed contracts exist now. But these people are still working their @sses off to produce something worth paying for — at least this is true of the good one.

.

Exactly. +1
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Old 28-09-2018, 17:27   #20
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Originally Posted by kerrydeare View Post
I have been reading a few cruising blogs lately (no real excuse), and I've noticed that a few younger couples have taken to begging for money to support their habit.

Evidently it's become respectable to ask other folks to send money so that these individuals can continue to wander aimlessly, go swimming when they have the urge, buy spares and engine replacement parts, eat well, feed their pets, etc.

I don't remember doing anything like this during the 8 years I lived aboard during the 1990's. Don't remember any friends doing this either.

How did I get so far out of touch?

I am not quite clear what you are saying here.


Begging is not illegal as far as I know (in the civilized places anyways). And if it is morally despicable from a point of view, then take it for granted morality is the fave tool used by the rich to induce guilt in the poor and have them do what the rich want.


You can substitute my word 'rich' above with 'religious leaders' or 'politicians' and the meaning of my post will remain the same.


I have never begged nor asked for money either. But I am not bothered when I see people ask, beg or work for money. When I think the person is in a real need and has no other immediate way to earn money, I may and will contribute (within my very humble means). When I think the person want money for beers, I will just disregard their request and move on.


And, by the way, we are not 'wandering aimlessly' here. We are cruising. And we all deserve respect, which starts with not calling writers/photographers/motivational speakers beggars.


You said they are bloggers. Is blogging not a proper job where you live?



You do not like their blog? Do not read! Do not fund/send/support/contribute. You name it.


I think we are on the same wavelength. We simply use different words to depict the same or similar meanings and values.


"Our word choices form our vision of the world." Ghandi, Chomsky, Trump? No, an unnamed blogger.


Cheers,
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Old 28-09-2018, 19:01   #21
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Well we each decide what behaviours change our level of "respect".

The fundamental baseline default, from a compassionate forgiving humanity POV, should not change of course.

And some positions of authority and power demand a completely different practical meaning of the word.

But in the sense used here, I may choose to feel & demonstrate my respect based on whatever arbitrary measure I like.

Just like in looking for a romantic partner, I personally cannot abide tattoos, cosmetic surgery, non-binary gender ambiguity or visible makeup, and those preferences are no one's business but my own.

Same with saying I have no respect for non-desperate people asking for support without making valuable contributions in exchange.

I will only donate if their product does deliver value to me, or

if I subjectively consider their desperation valid and deserving.

However I very strongly feel differently at a macro / political level, but not getting into that here.
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Old 29-09-2018, 05:14   #22
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
... I think we are on the same wavelength. We simply use different words to depict the same or similar meanings and values ...
Aside from the "ad hominem" aspects of your comments, I'd probably agree.

Cheers.
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Old 29-09-2018, 06:17   #23
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Seems to say at least as much about the payers as the payees, and maybe more...

To stir the pot a little, it seems just another manifestation of the greatest scourge to hit the earth since at least the Chicxulub impact, or perhaps even the Permian event, the triumvirate of advertising, technology and corporate capitalism, which has given us such gems as overpopulation, inequality (real and [mis]perceived), rampant pollution, climate change (had to sneak that one in there), digital 'friendship', Facebook and on and on and on...

Welcome to the Anthropocene...ain't affluence (while it lasts) great?
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Old 29-09-2018, 07:04   #24
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

How about someone posting a comprehensive list of favourite YouTube cruising videos. I am sure that we will all find some new and enjoyable ones to check out.
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Old 29-09-2018, 07:36   #25
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Perhaps this is not PC, but...


I feel the same way about bands, athletic teams, and most school groups. Have a bake sale, sell mulch, whatever, but don't come to my house. You are not a legitimate charity and it the same as panhandling without being poor.



I mowed lawns and raked leaves to pay for those things, so I feel zero need to contribute to something unnecessary. I also worked my way through college and skipped going to the moves and pub crawling because I could not justify the expense, certainly not if I was asking for help with ANY part of it. You ask for help only when you can do no more.


Yup, hard ass.


Real hard times are different. Once you have done all that you can, then asking for help is guilt free. Anyone can fall down.
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Old 29-09-2018, 07:43   #26
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Derail re cable tv:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
Don't lose sight of whom is paying for what.
You are paying a content provider (cable, satellite, phone) for delivery of a clear signal, possibly in HD. This can include other features like On Demand, and DVR. The alternative is rabbit ears, tin foil, banging on the side of the TV, and fine-tuning a VHF dial like a submarine sonar technician.

Commercials pay the individual networks which, in turn, pays for the content they produce.

These are somewhat mutually exclusive concepts.
When cable-only channels were first rolled out, one of the big advertised advantages of many of them was "commercial-free"... so no, there was an expectation that the fees for these new channels also provided payment for content.

As a young couple making our way, we decided that cable was something we could live without. Now that we can afford cable or satellite... fuggedaboutit; we're not ready to shell out $100/month to watch commercials. We have a HD antenna (2 coathangers and a board with foil on it) that gets over 20 HD stations, and we happily pay $10/month for netflix (commercial free).

Back to the OP - content production and monetization is still a changing landscape, and for the moment at least, very democratic. You-tube, online funding - they're all voluntary; no-one is forced to watch and/or pay. It will be interesting to watch how it evolves.
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Old 29-09-2018, 08:05   #27
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Perhaps this is not PC, but...

but don't come to my house. You are not a legitimate charity and it the same as panhandling without being poor.
They aren't going to your house.......if you're watching the YouTubers channel, you're going to their house......for free.

BTW;

Finished watching RAN Sailings latest video. They didn't collide with the bear. They did show some beautiful scenery and wild life of the Alaskan coast with Glaciers, seals, otters, bears oh my!

Bonus Video from Gone With The Wynns - Good stuff. They have a new intro and pin drop their map location. These were suggested by their viewers so unlike BIG TV, where they could care less what their viewership thinks, GWTW, listened to their viewers recommendations and made changes. They also stern anchored for the first time and did a very nice job explaining "How To" for us newbies that wouldn't have a clue and would be to embarrassed to ask the old salts for fear of laughter from the dock.

Sailing Nahoa put out a good "Spare Parts" video. Their How To fishing videos were better but this was still informative. They are actually my favorite channel. Funny, witty, informative....... They also respond to questions and comments quickly.

All of these channels offer entertainment, information and bring us into their sailing lives. Most show the good, bad and the ugly which for people who think cruising is all sunshine and sundowners can be a rude awakening.

As it's been pointed out, you don't have to pay for their YouTube Channel but you can "donate" to their Patreon account. They aren't begging. You want to see begging go to San Francisco and try to walk down the street near the warf. It's almost robbery you're so harassed. Either way you'll still get to watch the same videos. I CHOOSE to donate a small amount for the entertainment they provide. It costs me very little in comparison to the information and entertainment they provide me.
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Old 29-09-2018, 08:17   #28
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

You cannot equate or conflate cruisers who are producing content and asking for payment, to those who are simply begging for money. The two are quite different.

As a freelancer I understand that quality content is worth paying for. Any youtuber making any decent money is someone working very hard. The payment mechanisms are different than how I work, but they are doing exactly the same thing.

The folks who simply beg for money offering nothing but vicarious living option are people I have little sympathy for, but if they can make it pay, well who am I to say.

Either way, no one is forced to give them anything. Heck, no one is forced to even view their content, or crap. It’s the same complaint I see on CF every so often where someone whines about a certain thread. If you don’t like it, don’t read/view it .
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Old 29-09-2018, 08:34   #30
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Originally Posted by kerrydeare View Post
Aside from the "ad hominem" aspects of your comments, I'd probably agree.

Cheers.

Kerry, people at CF,



Please accept my apology where I sound rough at the edges. I am aware I can. I am not native and my way of talking and writing can be clearly too immediate, to emotional. This is one of the things you do not acquire as you acquire your second or third language.


Maybe one could, but I actually do not want to become Anglicized inside. I want to be able to communicate in English, but I want to communicate my own ideas and meanings, and values - that are based in continental European attitudes as proclaimed and cultivated by the big French revolution. Freedom, equality, brotherhood. I know these do not form part of the puritan world, but I think this is exactly where we can benefit from each other's presence. The world becomes less, when it becomes less diversified. Quite contrary to what the ancient Chinese expected.



I do think we are talking the same thing and we share the attitude. Things change and we may be in the same ex- generation (I am, anyways), no longer in sync with the ever more rapid social landscape.


This new landscape gives me laughs, most of the time. Shivers, at other times.



To me, it is hard, seeing what the world is like today and how far it is from how I was brought up. The changes are bigger than us and the process cannot be affected by our ever shrinking ex- population of ageing cruisers. The young ones are becoming the ruling majority.


The good news is I still see a handful of dreamers in truly small boats that pass thru LP to go for their West Indies dream. Some make it, some get stuck. It is fun to see them struggle and try and look for whatever ways to fund their freedom stunts. Many ask for money in their ways. With so much extra cash printed by the US and EU governments over last 10 years or so I do not think they are taking away from anybody.


Most families here (Canary Islands, one of the poorest and least educated regions of Spain) have two cars, six iPhones a 100-inch plasma, and a home to live in. I am not sure what they contribute to the society that when they ask for money, they get this much.


Some young sailing bloggers asking for money. Yes. Hardly the biggest challenge we are having these days. WE are bigger challenge than them. Just we fail to face things and see that we all get much more these days than we provide.


Respect and greetings to all readers and posters.


It is a good thread. Present and valid and interesting to read.



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