Greenhorns hunting for a SV (Americas, Med or Baltic)

[SierraTango]

1st mate wife and I (bosun) are on the hunt for a summer liveaboard SV this year. Home port will be PNW Puget Sound area but looking worldwide, especially in the Med or Baltic. We have our hearts set on an older Jeanneau 49DS but recently saw a 90's era offshore ready Hylas 45 that caught our eye in FL. Monohull is my goto only b/c unfamiliar with multihull, feel free to change our minds. We've owned boats, planes and livestock before but never a boat this size or completed a foreign purchase. Quite the greenhorn with only ~100 days of SV charter mostly in BVI and some in California/Mexico (San Diego, Ensenada, SantaCruz) and PNW San Juan Islands.

Weak areas are numerous; broker v. no-broker, purchase process (initial contact, earnest money, pro-inspection, personal inspection, commit), registration (foreign) & sales tax, etc. Currently researching; 'finding' boats for sale (many are brokers trolling online with faux or sold boats) and AC conversion from 50hz to 60hz power; alternator, inverter/converter, AC devices to convert/replace, etc.

Any help is appreciated, thank you's in advance!

Cheers!

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, ST.

[Discovery 15797]

If your homeport is PNW then you can easily scratch a cat off your list. Moorage space for cats is extremely limited in the PNW, and US in general. The next problem you'll have is finding a marina that accepts liveaboards.

If the home port is the PNW then I'd highly recommend buying a boat in the US to avoid excess taxes (country you buy the boat will want some of the action, and Uncle Sugar will take his cut when you import the boat to the US). Buying boats registered outside the US is not a trivial process, and you will likely need a reputable broker to complete the sale and transfer. (Here is an interesting write up of Canadians "illegally" selling their boats in the US. https://www.whiterocksquadron.org/Us...USPonsford.pdf)

Some brokers are great...others are displaced used car salespersons. It's a crapshoot.

Most brokers will require a 5-10% holding fee that is applied to the cost of the sale to get things rolling. That eliminates 'fender kickers.

The final sale should be contingent on a sea-trail, a personal inspection, and a completed survey (the results of a professional survey done at the buyer request can be beneficial is adjusting the sale price if the survey reveals issues).

A personal inspection will tell you more than photos on a web page. Go to the boat, and plan to spend at least 3-4 hours in the boat going from stem to stern. Sit down in the salon and chat with your partner or owner or broker for a while to get the feel of your potential living space.

Find a good surveyor, and be present for the survey if possible. Don't ask a brokers about surveyors...ask sailors in the community where the boat is located who they would recommend. BUT, definitely spend the money on a survey. The surveyor may miss things, but you will ultimately need a survey for insurance, and you will need insurance if you plan to dock at a marina in the US.

If you buy a European boat the conversion from 220/50hz to 120/60 hz is not likely to be a big issue (depending on how they wired the boat). Many Victron chargers will take either 220 or 120 inputs for battery charging. Then you can also add a 120 vac inverter. You can keep the 220 vac inverter if there are large appliances (washer/dryer) onboard that use 220 instead of 120. Of course, that combination complicates the electrical system aboard, but it is possible. WRT devices...there really shouldn't be that many AC devices onboard that you will need to replace. If the boat has a generator, then you will need a professional to modify the output from the generator, or install a frequency/voltage converter (not best option).

Personally, I'd pick the Hylas over any Jeanneau.

[SierraTango]

Thanks for your detailed input. Hylas over Jeanneau if the price is right. I've collected enough info about the AC conversion now to be prepared to evaluate a boat for the project. I have a marine electrician that will help me through any knotholes if needed. Independent surveyor for sure. I've heard I can avoid the euro taxes if I don't stay in either tax region more than 90 days (i.e. depart Med within 180 days) - true?

[JPA Cate]

Sierra Tango, welcome aboard CF.

I'd suggest, with your experience as it is (sailing only in warm welcoming places in moderate weather in boats that were made ready for you) that you confine your search to the west coast of the US. This will avoid hassles with foreign purchases and importation, but still offer you challenging sailing to deliver the boat to the PNW. Depending on your experience level, you might want to hire a skipper to help with the leg from San Francisco to the destination port. The current is against you, and long term weather forecasting is not 100% accurate.

Here's a link to looking seriously at boats you might purchase: Marine Survey 101: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...1-a-78671.html This is for you to do before you hire the surveyor for the ultimate boat, but it will help you evaluate the quality of the surveyor. I agree with the posts above that suggest you avoid broker surveyor recommendations (sometimes there is collusion), and check with the people on the dock.

For going offshore you really want a boat with "good bones": sturdily constructed, appropriately commissioned. Which means there are things on low end modern boats that will want upgrading. One thinks immediately about through hull fittings and things like backing plates for cleats. Try and imagine the boat lurching around in a heavy seaway, does it have hand holds (or will you have to add them?) and how would it be to cook in? (does it need a butt belt?) If you fall, how far will you go? Does the boat have lee cloths? sea berth? The idea is to try and imagine something of which you have little to no experience, but it is useful to spend the energy rather than finding out after you bought the boat.

Good luck with it. You really need to experience some heavy weather sailing. They say one never forgets their first gale. I haven't yet, but I still might, before I die!

Ann

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

... Here is an interesting write up of Canadians "illegally" selling their boats in the US. https://www.whiterocksquadron.org/Us...USPonsford.pdf)...

See also “Importing a Boat From Canada To United States”
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post2522619

[SierraTango]

Whoa! The Marine Survey 101 link is a hidden gem. I'm only 1/3 the way through and my hair hurts. Thanks so much for sharing. Of course you're right about finding a boat on the West coast and 'easing in' to our sailing. My wife says "I told you" and also thanks you. We really should ease into anything offshore and get competent help. Backing plates for cleats, sturdy topside and below decks hand holds, butt belt (for galley station I presume? Or maybe fishing?), lee cloth, sea berth; all things I had not fully considered.

I like your signature. The pilot version of this is "I'd rather be down here wishing I were up there than up there wishing I was down here".

Cheers!

[JPA Cate]

Yes, ST, like the pilot saying, too. And this one, relative to landing/docking: "any landing you walk away from is a good one."

Imo, you and your good lady need to go look at lots of boats, go aboard, and consider that it is moving like a TiltAWhirl. Another tip, go look at boats in downpours. If she has leaks, they'll be obvious. Had a broker take us one time to a bout with an asking price over twice what we intended to spend (and we'd told him our upper limit), on a rainy day, and all the port lights (fixed "windows") were leaking on the windward side.

Mostly, if you walk the docks in the morning and chat with people, they'll be glad to show you what they like best about their boat, and it's all grist for the mill. If you get invited aboard for a cup of coffee or tea, or a beer, it is nice to have something to offer to share, like good cookies, or a tin of salted macadamia nuts, hidden away in your backpack.

You can start a conversation easily with, "what a lovely boat", folks like to share and they like that you praise their boat. They'll also usually answer, "What's the most fun you had with your boat?"

Ann

[alctel]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Another tip, go look at boats in downpours. If she has leaks, they'll be obvious.

This is a really good tip

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SierraTango

1st mate wife and I (bosun) are on the hunt for a summer liveaboard SV this year. Home port will be PNW Puget Sound area but looking worldwide, especially in the Med or Baltic. We have our hearts set on an older Jeanneau 49DS but recently saw a 90's era offshore ready Hylas 45 that caught our eye in FL. Monohull is my goto only b/c unfamiliar with multihull, feel free to change our minds. We've owned boats, planes and livestock before but never a boat this size or completed a foreign purchase. Quite the greenhorn with only ~100 days of SV charter mostly in BVI and some in California/Mexico (San Diego, Ensenada, SantaCruz) and PNW San Juan Islands.



Weak areas are numerous; broker v. no-broker, purchase process (initial contact, earnest money, pro-inspection, personal inspection, commit), registration (foreign) & sales tax, etc. Currently researching; 'finding' boats for sale (many are brokers trolling online with faux or sold boats) and AC conversion from 50hz to 60hz power; alternator, inverter/converter, AC devices to convert/replace, etc.



Any help is appreciated, thank you's in advance!



Cheers!

Right now the Med is not a great place to buy as there is so much demand that mainstream stuff is selling very fast. Motorboats are not funnily enough !

Buying abroad hasn’t any great hassle other then the delivery home. Most brokers use English as the transaction language. Certainly in the EU, the buying process is easy for the vast majority of conventionally owned boats

There’s no boat that choice in Europe for sailing boats is huge normally as it’s the biggest concentration of sailing boats on the planet ( and of course manufacturers most of them ) but post Covid is a little funny so in a year of two the market will have most likely calmed down

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by SierraTango

Whoa! The Marine Survey 101 link is a hidden gem. I'm only 1/3 the way through and my hair hurts. Thanks so much for sharing.

Marine Survey 101 was put together by an active CF Member, boatpoker. You'll see his posts regularly on the Forum; when you do, know that the perspective is coming from a renowned boat surveyor with years of experience.

Fair winds,
LittleWing77

[Jolly Roger]

My schooner is now for sale, but I can’t find any mention of how much money you’ve got. That’s pretty important to sellers.