Dumb idea? ferrying passengers for money

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

There is a similar market running back packers between Panama and Colombia. Flights can be had inexpensively, we flew last year for $125 PP round trip! But, the back packer boats charge around $500! They spend a few days in the San Blas and then onto Cartegena. Most are illegal, substandard, over crowded boats (guests sleeping on deck and in salon), serving rice and beans, crossing a potentially very nasty area of ocean....and they are jam pack busy! Go figure. I think its the draw of a big adventure vs another ho hum plane flight.

Its all in the marketing...make it a big adventure/learning experience, charge high rates to cover your substantial costs, target affluent guests who can afford to pay, and it just might work.

Also look to the trekking market for an example of how to market this trip. I have a few friends who are pro guides and I am amazed what people will pay to slog up a trail. Example, Im going on a trek to Everest Base Camp in October with a pro guide friend of mine. We worked out an exchange of my sailing services for this trek, but other guests are paying about $6K!

Kind of difficult to get a motorcycle across the Darien Gap other than use these over priced yachts.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Tricolor

Kind of difficult to get a motorcycle across the Darien Gap other than use these over priced yachts.

Aw c'mon, where is your sense of adventure! Besides Colombia and the FARC have made very good progress on the peace process.[emoji6]

There are ships which also transport motorcycles and vehicles, but I dont know their rates and schedules. Regardless, I would feel much more comfortable with that than many of the back packer boats.

Another interesting option would be travelling on one of the Colombian coastal traders. They stop at many of the populated islands along the way. Definately the slow boat option, with very primitive accomodations, but would be an interesting trip. I have seen one or two passengers aboard them in the past. I expect they would transport a moto at a reasonable rate.

[Tricolor]

I went from Turbo, after trying to find an other way of getting past the Darien Gap i finally got my bike on a, completely irresponsable, yacht. Tell me about all these other means of transport, pls with phone numbers......

[Lihuedooley77]

I do not know the law and procedures in countries other than the U.S.A, but here you are not going to be buying just any boat, and charge passengers fees, not even close.

1. We call it a " head boat " this is charging per person for the services. A private charter is different, but still is under the auspices of the USCG.

2. The ' head boat" has to be coast guard inspected and Sub Chapter T compliant. Some of that is when the boat is manufactured.

3. You need to have licensed U.S.C.G captains.

4. Most production boats are not manufactured up to Sub Chapter T.

As to the location where you wish to do this, if they have the same type of requirements, you would have to check on that.

Not sure about the ports, and dockage for port of departure and arrival, dock space, fees, etc
.
Plus, any required licensing or permits , insurance required by federal, states or municipalities, etc.

it is OK to live your dream, but it might be a very good plan to exercise due dilligence before laying out a lot of cash .

[TrentePieds]

If you were proposing to do this in Canadian waters - which I realize that you are not - then in addition to regulations similar to the ones laid out by dooley77 above, you would have to meet our Hull Construction Regulations.

At the time of Expo87, when the entire world was expected to descend on Vancouver, and much of it did, the DOT imposed these (preexisting) regulations, meant to cover large vessels carrying fare paying passengers such a ferries, on ANY vessel carrying 6 (IIRC) or more fare paying passengers. These regulations cover "frozen snot" boats as well as metal hulled boats. No "frozen snot" yacht can meet the requirements.

Why would you suppose the DOT did that?

I would expect the Australian authorities to by just as snarky! And with good reason.

TP

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

I think you would have difficult competition against the seaplanes. Those tickets can be had for under $350 USD one way, and the flight is only 2 hours.

Though on the topic, once upon a time I contemplated "environmentally friendly ferries" for the Puget Sound. Use some kind of massive sailing catamaran, carry pedestrians only, and sail the ferry routes. With all the hippy yuppies up there it might actually work! It would also need significant electric propulsion and batteries, and a way to charge very quickly during the unload/load process.

It may be the journey, not the destination that you sell, but first you need to identify the existence (or absence) of competition, and find vendors (boats owners and captains) who can legally provide your customers with a decent experience at a reasonable (or unreasonable and viable) price. Sounds like you want to be a travel agent or operator with specialty. Good luck, and with some of that luck you will read ideas in knowledgeable replies.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Tricolor

I went from Turbo, after trying to find an other way of getting past the Darien Gap i finally got my bike on a, completely irresponsable, yacht. Tell me about all these other means of transport, pls with phone numbers......

Sounds like a great adventure....at least just going to Turbo (vs Cartagena) keeps the time aboard shorter!

Dont have contact info on those other options. Though, I have met folks who have put vehicles on ships to/from Panama/Colombia. The coastal trading boats, I suspect you have to be standing there at the dock to book passage...I may just do that trip (if I can avoid getting sold or kidnapped along the way!).

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by kbed5275

I've recently started a travel site for adventure sea travel in Australia and I'd like to organise and sell yacht holidays. Initially I would sell just one trip in order to get the business started.

Ideally I would do the marketing and find tourists who would like to travel by yacht ...

All criticism and feedback is welcome! (I have joined a sailing meetup so hopefully I'll soon learn a lot more about everything!)

Cheers,
Kim

The earlier posters have jumped on your idea of sailing out 20 times per annum to Lord Howe on a commercial basis. And the Lord Howe idea, well, probably not a flyer for many reasons.

So I’m going to ignore these aspects and concentrate on what your post described, ie your web site for adventure sea travel. So do put a link up.

And I actually like your idea. There are a multitude of existing operators (both charter firms and sailing schools) that might be interested in joining up on your web site. Just trips round NSW’s many and varied inshore seas are amazing to most people. And the idea of sailing to Lord Howe, whilst reasonably hard core, I’m sure is doable for an experienced provider. There are many many destinations along the mainland coast that are just as exciting.

But if your idea is about promoting the web site service then I think that would be useful. Most sailing companies/schools have enough to do, and their marketing and promotion efforts can be mediocre at best. And I’ve not seen examples of any such firms, where they’ve put a package around their service.

What I mean is organised flights to/from Sydney, airport connections to/from boat, brochure at my local Main Street travel agent, etc that I can sign up for from my home. From a web site your can effectively provide that packaging.

Where most such services fail is that there’s a very limited budget in the existing operators pricing models and so little room for a promotion company to clip the ticket as it were. You have to add significant value, and that needs to also enhance the experience, and so that can be reflected in higher prices. Most operators don’t really get much honest feedback from their patrons, where as an independent promoter could.

Pure sailing too, needn’t be the sole ambition. Perhaps think outside the square. As an example I know of a sailing charter operator that has matched up the sailing experience with a walking experience. To explain, there’s a famous walk in a National Park here in NZ and much of the walk is around the coast. Walking slowly it takes about 5 days and there are back packer huts that people can stay in. But of course you have to carry everything you need on your back and share bedrooms.

But the yacht crowd meet you at the end of each day’s walk with a wonderful meal, your own cosy bed, and also they’ve brought along all your stuff. Each morning, after a wholesome breakfast, you’re given a nice lunch to carry and instructions for the next leg, whilst the yacht sails on to the next night’s mooring. Some people even choose to have the odd day sail on the boat. It’s an awesome service, especially for the older generation, and it’s a premium service. The fee for the 5 days is about $2K per person and typically there’s a 10 person group. Their competition I guess is guided tour operators where the guides walk with the group.

But how does someone in Baltimore or Rome or Durban find out about such an offering? It would be pure chance to stumble on the operator’s web site. I gather most people that go on the trip do so because of word of mouth.

This is just a small example of what thousands of operators do, and often do very very well. But they need help getting their message out.

For ‘real’ information about the technical requirements of a charter business jump on the Maritime Safety Authority’s web site and study up.

[Scotty Kiwi]

A pretty lumpy bit of sea, the Tasman around Lord Howe, isn't it?

I know it can get real tough approaching Lord Howe from New Zealand - the sea floor comes up shallower ... there's a current ... wind against current = very lumpy. Been there, done that, put in for repairs. "Crew", relatively unjustified in a panic for their lives, yelling to get airlifted off the yacht.

Lord Howe - Sydney might be better though.?

If the regulators don't impose prohibitive ongoing costs, then the weather may will do.

[picklesandjesse]

I'm a Class 4 skipper and I can tell you not many would want to do 20 trips a year to Lord Howe and back and deal with all those different people especially in The Tasman. It can be a very nasty stretch of water. There will be a time when it would be foolish to leave shelter. The boat will sooner or later suffer some sort of damage that will delay your sailings and passengers/crew would have already planned the time off work, booked airfares etc. Tourists and paying passengers can sometimes be a real pain and when you get one of those aboard it can upset the whole atmosphere. They will separate into 2 groups and then the fun begins. Things can fall apart on a small vessel at sea. It's hard to pick who the person is before you set sail. We had to tie a crew member to the mast once on a race to Fiji and drop him at Lord Howe.
Sorry to tell you this. I was a skipper of a brigantine for 18 months and that was a record for that boat. It's very difficult to hold it all together on many different levels. Also the rules and regs in Australia are very tight to say the least.

[Dash-Robo]

Uber Yacht

A commercial sailing yacht in Australia for this sort of Trip will need to be in survey
Be piloted by Qualified Skipper with an Experienced Adequate crew complement
Insurances will be required for the vessel and for the trip its self .
You defiantly need to do more research but before going forward you have to ask yourself
What is the governing bodies requirements for this sort of business venture
Why is there nobody doing this in Australia

[Scotty Kiwi]

Originally Posted by picklesandjesse

I'm a Class 4 skipper and I can tell you not many would want to do 20 trips a year to Lord Howe and back and deal with all those different people especially in The Tasman. It can be a very nasty stretch of water. There will be a time when it would be foolish to leave shelter. The boat will sooner or later suffer some sort of damage that will delay your sailings and passengers/crew would have already planned the time off work, booked airfares etc. Tourists and paying passengers can sometimes be a real pain and when you get one of those aboard it can upset the whole atmosphere. They will separate into 2 groups and then the fun begins. Things can fall apart on a small vessel at sea. It's hard to pick who the person is before you set sail. We had to tie a crew member to the mast once on a race to Fiji and drop him at Lord Howe.
Sorry to tell you this. I was a skipper of a brigantine for 18 months and that was a record for that boat. It's very difficult to hold it all together on many different levels. Also the rules and regs in Australia are very tight to say the least.

Yes, the foregoing is accurate.

[kbed5275]

Thankyou for all that helpful advice! I now understand how hard it'll be to run a commercial yacht from Sydney to Lord Howe, a little too ambitious for an initial trip to sell! I've adjusted my expectations and am now looking into day trips from Sydney to Port Stephens/Jervis Bay.

But like the trip to Lord Howe Island, there are no businesses offering this. If you google charter yacht Sydney, every single company seems to specialise in just sailing around Sydney Harbour. So it's likely that it will be expensive (but as long as the marketing is done right, it should be ok).

There is a similar market running back packers between Panama and Colombia. Flights can be had inexpensively, we flew last year for $125 PP round trip! But, the back packer boats charge around $500! They spend a few days in the San Blas and then onto Cartegena. Most are illegal, substandard, over crowded boats (guests sleeping on deck and in salon), serving rice and beans, crossing a potentially very nasty area of ocean....and they are jam pack busy! Go figure. I think its the draw of a big adventure vs another ho hum plane flight.

Its all in the marketing...make it a big adventure/learning experience, charge high rates to cover your substantial costs, target affluent guests who can afford to pay, and it just might work.

Very true, the fact that the boats are most likely illegal and substandard helps sell the adventure aspect. A rickety looking boat and an eccentric captain (maybe one with a drinking problem who speaks broken heavily accented english), people will pay big $$$ for that!

Where most such services fail is that there’s a very limited budget in the existing operators pricing models and so little room for a promotion company to clip the ticket as it were. You have to add significant value, and that needs to also enhance the experience, and so that can be reflected in higher prices. Most operators don’t really get much honest feedback from their patrons, where as an independent promoter could.

Pure sailing too, needn’t be the sole ambition. Perhaps think outside the square. As an example I know of a sailing charter operator that has matched up the sailing experience with a walking experience. To explain, there’s a famous walk in a National Park here in NZ and much of the walk is around the coast. Walking slowly it takes about 5 days and there are back packer huts that people can stay in. But of course you have to carry everything you need on your back and share bedrooms.

You've given me a lot to think about, I definitely don't want to be competing on price so I will think hard about how I can add extra value to justify the higher prices.

[GTom]

Originally Posted by kbed5275

I definitely don't want to be competing on price so I will think hard about how I can add extra value to justify the higher prices.

You should consider other means of transportation as competition as well. If you reach interesting locations which can only reached by hired helicopter/seaplane/motorboat, then there is a slot for you. Even in busy places, I recall in Gran Canaria tourists were asking us to take them to this and that beach, simply because the only way was to get there in 1 day trekking or chartering a boat from a longer distance.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by kbed5275

[...] I've adjusted my expectations and am now looking into day trips from Sydney to Port Stephens/Jervis Bay.
[...]

Good luck with that idea, Kim! I like it!

Imagine some comparably super-easy (on the boat and commercial skipper) multi-day trips from the Sydney main harbour up to Broken Bay: spending two nights at a mooring ball in the Ku-ring-gai Chase National Park would be pure bliss for many tourists and even some local city slickers (think married-at-first-sight footage just recently)!

It comes down to decent marketing, of-course, with a polished web site and not beautiful, but spectacular photos!

Dash-Robo dropped the keyword "Uber"! Didn't they stab the taxi business in the back by not getting a license and bring-your-own-car; then they just paid the fines if their drivers got caught? This might be a slightly shady starting point for your business but hey. Just thinking out loud here...

I'm sure there are a few skippers here that would "sign up" with you. Coming to think of it, Uber on boats already exists, IIRC? At least in some places in Europe? But maybe not yet in Sydney. And Aqua-Uber might not offer overnight trips anyway.

Gotta go... need to quickly register "aqua-uber.com.au" ..