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Old 17-02-2021, 13:42   #1
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Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

Hello all - my in laws are currently looking for a sailboat and, given that all thing boats has been a life long obsession of mine, I quickly volunteered to help, especially considering I will no longer need to charter as I have been. That said, I have a finance and accounting background so would like to create a detailed and realistic budget for operating expenses and make sure I have a complete picture before going forward further. In the motor yacht world, the typical rule of thumb is 10% of the new purchase price a year in expense, which includes reserves and will ultimately be lower in the early years and higher in later years of ownership.

That said, I am aiming to create a comprehensive list of all foreseeable expenses and items to create reserves for in future periods. Itís been about a decade since last running a trawler for me so any assistance in making sure my list is complete would be helpful and if there are any real world figures, that would also be great. I plan to exclude some more variable costs such as fuel and guest dockage as thatís difficult and subjective to forecast and Iíd like to hopefully have something useful for others to consider.

The sailboat would either be a new build or 2017 or newer production 38/41í class and based in Southern California for costal cruising. See my initial list below.

- Slip fees
- Insurance
- Bottom cleaning (how frequent?)
- Hull buff/detailing (how frequent?)
- Engine servicing (base estimate for a costal cruiser with average usage?)
- Registration
- Personal property taxes (unless a way to avoid?)
- Haul outs (not sure how frequently?)
- Reserve: Hull repaint (I think I have read the gel coat lasts 5-8 years?)
- Reserve: Bottom paint (how frequent?)
- Sail repair (any estimate?)
- Reserve: Sail replacement (useful life?)
- Reserve: miscellaneous repairs interior
- Reserve: miscellaneous repairs exterior
- Towboats membership
- Any saftey consumables to consider?
- Any other categories or missing maintenance items?
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Old 17-02-2021, 13:57   #2
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Letterkenny View Post
In the motor yacht world, the typical rule of thumb is 10% of the new purchase price a year in expense, which includes reserves and will ultimately be lower in the early years and higher in later years of ownership.
That's a good number, and with a reasonable numerator and denominator.

Budget considerations follow, not really cost estimates, just numbers to use for a round number budget.

- Slip fees
in Southern California it used to be the hardest thing was FINDING a slip, not paying for it. Call your local marinas for a good number.

- Insurance
This is pretty variable, but if you budget 2.5% of the hull value per year for hull and liability insurance you'll be close.

- Bottom cleaning (how frequent?)
Once a month. Varies a lot depending on location.

- Hull buff/detailing (how frequent?)
Once or twice a year, depending on your level of persnicketiness

- Engine servicing (base estimate for a costal cruiser with average usage?)
Service every 200 hours or so, or twice a year.

- Registration
If you document with the USCG, about $75/year.

- Personal property taxes (unless a way to avoid?)
If you boat is kept in CA you pay. Varies by county.

- Haul outs (not sure how frequently?)
Every two years.

- Reserve: Hull repaint (I think I have read the gel coat lasts 5-8 years?)
Paint last 5 to 8 years. Gelcoat should last 20, if well cared for (waxed 2x year.) A high quality paint job on hull and deck with premium paint is expensive. $30K+

- Reserve: Bottom paint (how frequent?)
every two years.

- Sail repair (any estimate?)
Inspection every year by a sail loft.

- Reserve: Sail replacement (useful life?)
5 to 10 years depending on type, usage, and care.
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Old 17-02-2021, 15:45   #3
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

BillKny's post upthread is good. I'll address a few other things



Quote:
Originally Posted by Letterkenny View Post
In the motor yacht world, the typical rule of thumb is 10% of the new purchase price a year in expense, which includes reserves and will ultimately be lower in the early years and higher in later years of ownership.

I believe the cost profile for sailboats is somewhat lower mainly due to a longer useful life. Usually motor yachts only last as long as the engines.


Quote:

The sailboat would either be a new build or 2017 or newer production 38/41í class and based in Southern California for costal cruising. See my initial list below.

Catamaran or mono? Catamarans cost more to maintain.




Quote:

- Engine servicing (base estimate for a costal cruiser with average usage?)

Well, for budgetary purposes, you could figure that a comprehensive repower will cost $20,000 and will be necessary after roughly 20 years or 15,000 hours, whichever comes first. You could plan on around $5,000 of component replacements/rebuilds during that time including redoing the exhaust system at least once, having the fuel pump and injectors overhauled, new starter, and possibly some transmission work.


Routine fluid and filter changes will occur every 200 hours or annually, whichever comes first. Many sailors do these themselves which keeps the cost down to, say, $100 or so. Hiring it out can double or triple the price.



Quote:

- Haul outs (not sure how frequently?)

Typical average is every two years. Boats kept in northern marinas where there is ice are hauled every winter. Rates vary widely depending on what else is done at the same time (such as pulling the mast) and where the boat is kept. For example, at the marina where I keep my boat, spring launch and fall haulout are included in the slip rate. At the opposite end of the scale you might pay close to $1000 particularly if you have to rent stands or pay for time in the slings.



Quote:

- Reserve: Hull repaint (I think I have read the gel coat lasts 5-8 years?)

Less often than that, though it does depend on how much sun you get. My boat is 25 years old and has never been repainted. Ordinarily not thought of as part of routine maintenance but rather as part of a major refit where the life of the boat is being extended.



Quote:

- Reserve: Bottom paint (how frequent?)

Typically every two years though it varies depending on where the boat is kept and the type of bottom paint used. Figure around $1000 for paint and consumable supplies (plastic tarps, brushes, respirator, gloves, etc). Many sailors do this themselves. A routine bottom paint project should require little or no surface preparation, maybe 15 hours of application time. Shop rates vary widely but $200/hour isn't unheard of.



Quote:

- Sail repair (any estimate?)

If the boat is sailed often then plan on around $300 for annual inspection and minor repairs brought on by cumulative wear.


If you make a mistake and rip a sail you might pay $100 if the damage is minor. Sky's the limit and it's possible to flog them to death quickly if a loss of control occurs in high winds and you can't furl them.



Quote:

- Reserve: Sail replacement (useful life?)


A set of typical dacron cruising sails for a boat in that size range are going to cost probably $6000-$10,00 depending on how they are cut and whether you use a full-service local loft or deal with the manufacturer on the phone yourself, and on whether your sail has special features such as a dutchman system or battcars or whatever.


You might typically expect 5-10 years out of the sails though it depends on how much the boat is sailed, how much care is taken with the sails, and how picky you are about their condition.



Quote:

- Any saftey consumables to consider?

If you will have a liferaft, allow around $500 per year lifecycle cost. They cost around $3000 new including the cradle, and last three years before they need service. Service will typically be around $700 the first and third time and $1000 the second time. A fourth service isn't usually cost effective, so you get 12 years for a total of $5400 give or take.


Another $100 a year should cover flares, fire extinguishers, and epirb battery.



Quote:

- Reserve: miscellaneous repairs interior
- Reserve: miscellaneous repairs exterior
- Any other categories or missing maintenance items?

Standing rigging $3000 every 10 years. In theory the mast should be replaced after 20 years but few people do this.



Running rigging usually replaced piecemeal based on wear, allow at least $300 a year


Winch service. Most sailors do this themselves. Allow $50 per winch every two years for parts and supplies


Updated survey probably required for insurance from time to time, allow $1000 every 5 years


Replace docklines and bumpers periodically, allow $100 a year


Ground tackle, depends how often you anchor, chain and gypsy will require replacement every few years if you anchor out often and this is expensive, up to $3000, depends on how much chain you have and how much fiddling around with partial replacements or swapping it end for end you're willing to do. Anchor will last until you lose it



Canvas bimini, dodger, sailcover, etc., you'll maybe get 15 years depending how picky you are, can be $ several thousand but varies widely


Electrical, plan on replacing all batteries every 5 years


Generator, if you have one figure $300 in annual maintenance and $10,000 to replace after 15 years.


More generally, there are plenty of items that start to fail after 15-20 years but these all are more "major refit extending the life of the vessel" rather than maintenance items. Portlights, hatches, stanchions needing rebedding, lifelines, electronics, refrigeration, pumps, head, etc etc etc
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Old 17-02-2021, 16:09   #4
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

Thanks for the insight. I’ll start compiling the data. I should note that I’m expecting a 5-10 year hold period so sounds like some of these items might not come due under the ownership period.
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Old 17-02-2021, 17:44   #5
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

I can help with some of those:
Slip fees $675/month for 35' slip (Dana Point)
- Insurance Our insurance seems very reasonable compared to other coasts, no hurricanes or blizzards.
- Bottom cleaning (how frequent?) Monthly ~$50, plus $100 worth of zincs/year
- Hull buff/detailing (how frequent?) Annual
- Engine servicing (base estimate for a costal cruiser with average usage?) Probably about $350, I've only paid mechanics far from home to do a "pre-delivery" service otherwise do my own, probably $150 in parts and filters
- Registration mininmal, $10-20 a year, i forget
- Personal property taxes (unless a way to avoid?)
- Haul outs (not sure how frequently?) Every 3 years for bottom paint
- Reserve: Hull repaint (I think I have read the gel coat lasts 5-8 years?) My boat is almost 20, topsides never been painted or needed, maintained gelcoat will last unless you "polish" your way thru it.
- Reserve: Bottom paint (how frequent?) see above
- Sail repair (any estimate?)
- Reserve: Sail replacement (useful life?) $5000 - $6000 average
- Reserve: miscellaneous repairs interior
- Reserve: miscellaneous repairs exterior
- Towboats membership
- Any saftey consumables to consider?
- Any other categories or missing maintenance items? Most things seem to have about a 10 year lifespan, pumps, water heaters, cushions, rigging.
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Old 18-02-2021, 12:41   #6
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

Regular replacement of boat equipment - sails, yes but also:
standing rigging, running rigging, , updating electronics & nav gear, engine (eventually) including all ancillaries, upholstery wears out...
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Old 18-02-2021, 12:44   #7
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

I appreciate your background & maybe some idea of costs would be useful but it is maybe better if you have enough money to cope anyway ...?
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Old 18-02-2021, 21:35   #8
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clivevon View Post
I appreciate your background & maybe some idea of costs would be useful but it is maybe better if you have enough money to cope anyway ...?
Nobody likes surprised costs. Sure you can handle it, but it’s always a burden. However, when you plan for these things in advance, the burden is spread out and since it’s been specifically allocated, you don’t all of a sudden have an expense out of no where. By not considering everything is how people get in trouble. I budget my everyday life and have all sorts of reserves. For me as well, having a plan and funds set aside ahead of time helps me to enjoy the actual sailing aspect versus wondering what’s coming ahead.
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Old 20-02-2021, 00:49   #9
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

Looks like we may be looking into a Hanse 385 or a Beneteau 38 which would be used. Will need to check into the above to see how that would change any estimates. Again, given the 5-10 year hold, seems like some of these would be less of an issue.
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Old 01-03-2021, 13:05   #10
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
BillKny's post upthread is good. I'll address a few other things






I believe the cost profile for sailboats is somewhat lower mainly due to a longer useful life. Usually motor yachts only last as long as the engines.





Catamaran or mono? Catamarans cost more to maintain.







Well, for budgetary purposes, you could figure that a comprehensive repower will cost $20,000 and will be necessary after roughly 20 years or 15,000 hours, whichever comes first. You could plan on around $5,000 of component replacements/rebuilds during that time including redoing the exhaust system at least once, having the fuel pump and injectors overhauled, new starter, and possibly some transmission work.


Routine fluid and filter changes will occur every 200 hours or annually, whichever comes first. Many sailors do these themselves which keeps the cost down to, say, $100 or so. Hiring it out can double or triple the price.






Typical average is every two years. Boats kept in northern marinas where there is ice are hauled every winter. Rates vary widely depending on what else is done at the same time (such as pulling the mast) and where the boat is kept. For example, at the marina where I keep my boat, spring launch and fall haulout are included in the slip rate. At the opposite end of the scale you might pay close to $1000 particularly if you have to rent stands or pay for time in the slings.






Less often than that, though it does depend on how much sun you get. My boat is 25 years old and has never been repainted. Ordinarily not thought of as part of routine maintenance but rather as part of a major refit where the life of the boat is being extended.






Typically every two years though it varies depending on where the boat is kept and the type of bottom paint used. Figure around $1000 for paint and consumable supplies (plastic tarps, brushes, respirator, gloves, etc). Many sailors do this themselves. A routine bottom paint project should require little or no surface preparation, maybe 15 hours of application time. Shop rates vary widely but $200/hour isn't unheard of.






If the boat is sailed often then plan on around $300 for annual inspection and minor repairs brought on by cumulative wear.


If you make a mistake and rip a sail you might pay $100 if the damage is minor. Sky's the limit and it's possible to flog them to death quickly if a loss of control occurs in high winds and you can't furl them.







A set of typical dacron cruising sails for a boat in that size range are going to cost probably $6000-$10,00 depending on how they are cut and whether you use a full-service local loft or deal with the manufacturer on the phone yourself, and on whether your sail has special features such as a dutchman system or battcars or whatever.


You might typically expect 5-10 years out of the sails though it depends on how much the boat is sailed, how much care is taken with the sails, and how picky you are about their condition.






If you will have a liferaft, allow around $500 per year lifecycle cost. They cost around $3000 new including the cradle, and last three years before they need service. Service will typically be around $700 the first and third time and $1000 the second time. A fourth service isn't usually cost effective, so you get 12 years for a total of $5400 give or take.


Another $100 a year should cover flares, fire extinguishers, and epirb battery.






Standing rigging $3000 every 10 years. In theory the mast should be replaced after 20 years but few people do this.



Running rigging usually replaced piecemeal based on wear, allow at least $300 a year


Winch service. Most sailors do this themselves. Allow $50 per winch every two years for parts and supplies


Updated survey probably required for insurance from time to time, allow $1000 every 5 years


Replace docklines and bumpers periodically, allow $100 a year


Ground tackle, depends how often you anchor, chain and gypsy will require replacement every few years if you anchor out often and this is expensive, up to $3000, depends on how much chain you have and how much fiddling around with partial replacements or swapping it end for end you're willing to do. Anchor will last until you lose it



Canvas bimini, dodger, sailcover, etc., you'll maybe get 15 years depending how picky you are, can be $ several thousand but varies widely


Electrical, plan on replacing all batteries every 5 years


Generator, if you have one figure $300 in annual maintenance and $10,000 to replace after 15 years.


More generally, there are plenty of items that start to fail after 15-20 years but these all are more "major refit extending the life of the vessel" rather than maintenance items. Portlights, hatches, stanchions needing rebedding, lifelines, electronics, refrigeration, pumps, head, etc etc etc
Thank you. How much does a house battery normally go for and when you say running rigging you mean like sheets and stuff correct?
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Old 05-03-2021, 01:24   #11
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

Curious for any feedback on the below or if you can fill in the missing spots. This is assuming a new 34í class sailboat. I have a selection of slip fees on my second tab. Insurance is from Geico. Is there a preferred insurer out there?
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Old 10-03-2021, 20:08   #12
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Re: Detailed budget for late year Sailboat

Bump - revised my budget and would like any feedback. Still any input on a buff and polish and engine servicing would be appreciated.
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