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Old 15-10-2021, 07:35   #31
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Re: Critique My Plan

Plan sounds great, many will envy your overall position.
- sooner is better…shit happens.

The one significant hole I could see is around insurance, both boat & health.
- offshore cruising hull insurance cost is about 1-1/2% of insured value and climbing plus is not always easily found…fewer & fewer insurers out there.
- health insurance is however much it costs to keep you comfortable……you need a plan(s) that includes evacuation insurance (several countries now require it)….can go inexpensive with DAN Boater, or sky’s the limit. DAN won’t necessarily get you back to your home country. Wife often has an opinion on this facet….
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Old 15-10-2021, 07:56   #32
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Re: Critique My Plan

You have the $$$; the plan is (mostly) viable; your boat choices and locations seem good. The only thing I question: 40 hour work week???? When you go cruising, you have a new full time job - keeping your boat running and in shape. And make no mistake, that IS a full-time job. That, combined with home-schooling the kids, will make a full time remote gig challenging (or impossible). And keep in mind, cruising is about experiencing the world…NOT trying to move your “land life” onto a boat. Just quit your job and get on with it.
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Old 15-10-2021, 07:56   #33
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Re: Critique My Plan

I only skimmed this thread, so maybe it already has been said: be wary of that work from home in a foreign country situation. I have a friend who ended up in jail for that. Most countries won't allow you to work on a tourist visa, you need a work visa. They consider working remote from your boat to be working in that country. Now you need a work visa and to be paying taxes, but most won't give a work visa.

Just something to think about. Research specific countries and their laws and mitigate risk appropriate to your situation.

Also, you hiring? Just kidding. Sort of...
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Old 15-10-2021, 09:04   #34
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Re: Critique My Plan

I work remotely as well. Really look at your internet. The worst connections we had was in the Bahamas and Dominica. Even buying internet service won't give you reliable internet. You can buy reliable internet in most other islands, therefore, I'd recommend getting down to the Caribbean. I'm assuming you don't want to be out of the next for extended periods of time, so you'll want to keep the boat down there.

Try to charter the boat you want to buy. That will give you a good idea of the space you will or won't have. I tried telling my husband out Leopard 40 had no storage. But he had to actually be living on the boat to understand it. We made the forward starboard cabin into a pantry.

There are FB groups that can help with any questions you have about the kids, and there's one only for women (Women who Sail).

Good luck. It sounds like a plan. Message me if you have any questions.

Maje
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Old 15-10-2021, 09:40   #35
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Re: Critique My Plan

At 45, we “retired” and went cruising with a paid for 44’ 15 yr old mono.
We both quit our carriers at the worst time financially as were coming up on our peak earning years. We did this with about 2-300K in the “bank” and NO income source I did obtain my 100 ton masters ticket and Scuba Instructor/dive Master Certs prior to “taking off”.
After a couple of years of cruising only, we got into a routine of working about 2-3 months a year runnng a dive/sail crewed charter business from our boat. The other 9-10 months we did what ever we wanted. Had a blast! It worked. Now in my late seventies and still healthy and no worries and never worked another serious job (carrier). We still travel and adventure and have learned to live very happily on less money and thank God, less STUFF. You can’t take it with you.
( have you ever seen a hurst, towing a storage trailor?).

Even on adjusted dollars. You are leaps and bounds way ahead of where we were.
And I can’t imaging why you would have any financial problems.
We learned that life can be a blast with out all that much money. We did our own maintenance for the most part, we anchored out 90% of the time.

BTW, in shopping for used multi’s be aware of very expensive and extensive structural issues showing up in some cats. Particularly Lagoon. ( bulkhead issues). And remember, an older HI- quality item is usually much more valuable than a newer but cheaper one. Quality over age. One of the “tricks” that we have learned and benefitted from. We never buy anything of any value, new.
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Old 15-10-2021, 10:06   #36
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Re: Critique My Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beneath View Post
Trying to look at the pessimist side (or maybe confirmation? hah) of our plans.

I am able to work remote, and have been doing so for the last 6+ years - it is not a covid employer shifting event. My team is also remote and spread all over the United States, this is also the norm for other teams within my Director's organization. I guess i am trying to say, that the 'work from home' for me - is pretty much as permanent as it can be. My wife is stay at home mom/property manager for our recently growing real estate investments. I have already worked from counties outside of US - month(s) long remote work/vacation with family.

We are 34M & 31F - 2 kids. Before jumping into the numbres, Yes I know we are extremely lucky to be were we are now - especially coming from a family that grew up in poverty and on food stamps.

All figures are in USD $.
  • My Salary: $450k/year. My employment is very safe. if anything I might get a promotion in 1-2 years and potentially jump up to 500-750k/year.
  • Real Estate Net: $30k/year. This is with all costs already removed, including a conservative maintenance and vacancy fund. We currently net a bit more than this, but using this number to account for potential property management fees.
  • Current Investments not counting home nor real estate property equity is roughly $1.5 Million in stock funds.
  • We currently save 14k/month from my salary, mostly into investments.
  • We do not touch our real estate income. We use it to roll it into another real estate purchase every 1-3 years. In this plan's case, we will not seek additional real estate and bank this instead as the 1st line of yearly maintenance capital.
  • My plan is to retire (FIRE) before 50, realistically the only reason for delaying it so long is a mix feeling about retiring with the kids still going through in person high school - what the hell do we do? cant travel, might as well make the cruise kitty obese. We want them to have the option to go onsite for high school; to experience the social and friendship bonding aspects. This fact will come up later on in the plan.
  • Cost of living: We are in a Low/Middle cost of living area. We are not located around main cities nor in high taxing states.
  • We have already fully funded both kids 529/College savings.

Experience:
  • I am ASA101, 103, 104, 114 Certified. The Mrs is 101 & 103 as of this year.
  • As a family, we have already done two catamaran bareboots - not inclusive of any classes. The Mrs will NOT, like absolutely NOT do monohulls...
  • During one of the bareboot week long trips, the oldest kid had to do schooling and homeowrk - So a good trial run of it all.
  • Wife is onboard with the plan, which is usually the hardest part; am i right?! .
  • I am generally very handy. Engineering background with a diy/fixing mindset. Have had a year of electrical, a year of telecommunications and tend to most minor/handy man task in our home or real estate investments. I do woodworking as a hobby/home improvement passion. I am a study alcoholic and have absorbed a few recommended sailboat maintenance books by now.
  • The Mrs is by all merits not a diva nor posh. She grew up in a 3rd world country tending to her families farm, cattle and deep in **** (literally) - in a tom boyish capacity, she is not afraid to get dirty.

The Plan:
  • Within the next 1-2 years buy a Used catamaran ($450k ish), but not one too old - maybe 1-4yrs old. Currently looking at the 40ft size range (Lagoon, FP, Leopard, Nautitech, Seawind etc.). The cash for the 25% payment would be covered before this years end and will not be removed from existing investment funds.
  • Refit; (let's say..$60k). Will be mostly focused on self-sustainability, if it already does not presently have the equipment. Water maker, solar(1300w+), lithium(900ah+), wifi/4g extender, washing machine, folding props, netted lifelines, as well as your normal offshore safety components.
  • We would plan for a week+ captain to come aboard our own vessel and go through docking endorsements and insurance sign off.
  • Spend 6 months on the boat (Nov-May) in the Caribbean. First year will be mostly FL/Bahamas while we potentially fine tune the vessel to our liking and gain more experience. The second season will be heading down to Turks as well as Dominican Republic for example.
  • We will be moving slow and not be working against a specific schedule. Partly because I will still plan on working my normal 40hrs throughout the week. Yes, this would mean that our travel areas Mon-Fri will be planned around signal areas. I would use weekend/vacation days off for the not so frequent multi-day passages here and there.
  • The other 6 months (June-Oct), we will plan for the boat to be hauled out and stored in the dry. We will spend this half of the year in our home state within USA. Enjoying the summer time and spending some extended family time. This does mean that we will be floating both expenses (boat loan, mortgage) year round - but the numbers seem to make it possible.
  • We will aim to live this lifestyle for 4-6 years until the oldest child enters high school. At which point we will re-evaluate virtual schooling vs on-site High schooling; but for now, lets assume we head back on land and put the boat for sale.
  • During these years of floating both a catamaran and a house, our monthly savings will drop from 15k/month to 7k/month to conservatively account for floating both 'homes' year round.
  • Budgeting wise, this also includes about 15% of hull value in yearly maintenance, $800-1000 in misc marina fees a month, as well as elevated groceries, internet plans and entertainment funds. While we plan to anchor most of the time, we have included this marina fee into our plans so as to not make the decision a point of stress if the need arises. The monthly marina fee also goes year round to cover while the boat is in the hard.
  • No..we are not going to be YouTubers Lol. No offense to anybody whom does it of course - as it can be a great financial component.

Looking at just the numbers, this seems to make sense to me. Our savings will slow down for a few years. But if we return to land in 6 yrs after selling the boat, we can pick it right back up on full steam. Reggardless, we will still be in a financial position to retire by:
  • Age 40-42: If we decide to go 100% cruising family by then and sell the primary residence.
  • Age 45: 50% land/50% cruising and we decide to not go to an in person high school. Additional savings years to pay off mortgage/float additional spending capital.
  • Age 50: Living on Land & girls graduated from traditional highschool and we transition to just couple cruisers.

Some Risks:
  • After the first year, we hate it. Sell boat, loose out on $xx,0000 in transaction fees.
  • Even after considering my employment secure, lets say I loose my job. My specific skillsets and domain is about the hottest and on demand sector, should not be hard to conservatively obtain another 250+ year job. Might have to sell boat, and shift back to land until the numbers @ 42/45/50 make sense for us to retire and pick it back up. This is only if the company is not remote friendly.

Not asking from a place of hostility - but genuinely speaking, this is my family so i want to make sure i am not blind to any additional risk or recommendation from the members of this board.

Would you pull the trigger on this plan given the personal and financial situation at hand? or how would you alter it? What am I being blind to?

Apologies for the long wall of text, but as you can tell we have been pondering this for awhile and are extremely excited about the idea of it.
Sounds to me like you're more than capable of pulling this off financially. If it were me, I'd be looking at anew catamaran - possibly the Knysna 500 SE which comes fully equipped for about a million USD. And yes, new boats will also have some problems (just not as many as a used boat) Since you are unclear as to your future sailing plans, you should get a boat that will do it all and not something designed for Caribbean charter (Lagoon, FPI) - not saying that these boats are bad but they would not be the first choice for a trans ocean cruiser. The big downside to the new boats is that there's currently about a two year waiting period to get the popular ones - but you can do a lot of your own custom designing and end up with the boat you really want rather than someone's castoff. There are at least a couple of companies developing satellite based internet connections so in two years that would not be an issue for you. And yes, living on a catamaran is much easier than living on a monohull (your wife is right). Most cats have four cabins and at least three heads while you'd need a huge monohull to get that. Don't forget the dishwasher and combo washer/dryer - the dryers tend to a bit anemic but will work fine for tee shirts and sheets. The dishwasher saves a lot of water and time and will get your dishes cleaner. In the meantime keep chartering - sounds like you can afford it and you won't have to worry about hurricane holes come summer.
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Old 15-10-2021, 10:11   #37
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Re: Critique My Plan

Concerned re kids. What about the knowledge and social skills they would normally develop over their younger years interacting with other kids in regular school/activities? They'll miss out on that, and then be dropped into regular high school? Talk about sink or swim. Scary.
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Old 15-10-2021, 10:24   #38
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Re: Critique My Plan

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Originally Posted by NativeDiegan View Post
Concerned re kids. What about the knowledge and social skills they would normally develop over their younger years interacting with other kids in regular school/activities? They'll miss out on that, and then be dropped into regular high school? Talk about sink or swim. Scary.
Kids socialization is really one of the most important things they must learn "in practice".

Afraid however COVID and what will come thereafter (it WILL come) will put the other question: live or die.

Distance and healthy environment may what can work positively in this case.

Planet EARTH, XXI Century.
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Old 15-10-2021, 16:38   #39
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Re: Critique My Plan

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I know virtually nothing about sailing or liveaboard lifestyle, but with that being said I still think this is an absolutely fantastic plan. I think certainly financially where I have some knowledge it makes sense and is sound (may want to consider how this lifestyle affects focus at work though, it would for me).



I hope to take a few years off work in the near future and liveaboard for a few years, I considered working remote but figured the internet challenge would be a huge hurdle. Just curious what kind of costs you have found associated with sufficient connection to work and still have freedom to move around?



Cheers
Bean counting and cruising does not go together too well.
Go and get some sailing experience.. It will sort you out one way or another.
You might even finding relaxing.
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Old 15-10-2021, 19:12   #40
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Re: Critique My Plan

I think you have thought this through well. Despite the naivety of some CF members there are many of us in similar situations but maybe a little older with children grown up. I would definitely watch Sailing Zatara on YouTube if you haven't, as they have done this as a family. My concern as is yours about being in range of high speed reliable internet may be addressed soon. I think this recent article mentions Starlink which ultimately will give you relatively cheap high speed internet anywhere in the world except in the higher latitudes in the northern and southern hemishere.
I would also make sure your real estate portfolio is managed well for rent collection, repairs and maintenance.
Good luck with your plans and I wish you and your family fair winds and safe travels.
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Old 15-10-2021, 22:51   #41
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Re: Critique My Plan

I think you have 2 options
Go now and make a mistake doing it too early
Go later and make a mistake doing it too late

Which one do you feel you can best recover from, (bearing in mind that you and your wife appear to be a capable team).

Dear younger self…
If you think you don’t have enough security to do it now you definitely won’t have enough later.



Enjoy the journey for the gift of learning that it provides.

(I have to remember these things myself)
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Old 16-10-2021, 02:48   #42
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Re: Critique My Plan

I think more than the financial sense of what you are planning you need to think about your life plan.
Retiring to a live aboard life at your age means potentially 40-50 years of living afloat.
While we all love cruising, we love it in different amounts, and life is more than just sailing. As someone else said, life aboard does get boring eventually and it is fundamentally a bit self indulgent.
You are making more money than can be spent with a conscience and it looks to me as if you are a bit bored with this and can't see another 30 years of doing the same. Fair enough, everything becomes samey eventually. Including cruising.

How about a second career that is not directed towards wealth acquisition. Social work, charities, NGOs.
I retired from public service aged 60 and have spent more time cruising for the last 4 years and that is just about OK, but I would not make it my sole purpose and commit my whole family to it full time.
Not trying to be negative, just realistic. Maybe you have more to give?
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Old 16-10-2021, 07:28   #43
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Re: Critique My Plan

JUMP BABY JUMP!

DO IT DO IT NOW!

PULL THE TRIGGER ALREADY!

I will retire next year at 52 1/2 yo. and I will never work again.
Only you know your mindset.
Only you know if you're ready.
If you understand you, your lifestyle and your needs only you can answer this question.

But, IMHO your on target. Get there now.

Best of luck.
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Old 16-10-2021, 11:32   #44
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Re: Critique My Plan

Man, we didn’t see the fully amortised spreadsheets yet, but sounds like you have these in multiple case scenarios. Good for you on all basic and no so basic factors.

Few humble comments from a sailor, racer and a CEO of a Biotech venture… (in this order!)

On the Cat. Go for a 45’ modern well built. With your resources you want less maintenance and broken stuff during your 6 months. Leopard 45 is a good start and from there the sky is the limit - meaning, plan on a more expensive newer boat superbly maintained and budget.

Marinas vs. anchoring: plan on 100% marina docking time if you continue to work on board. This means you may save on the watermaker and a large genset.

Boat maintenance will consume a lot of your time, no matter what. Especially in the islands time, availability of parts and services. Meaning weekends and nights may not be always free for the fun times we all have seen with the YouTubers.

Experience is a long learning curve you and your family will need to gain over a long time - for most of us it is years and we’re still learning every day. Books, former courses and hired captain can’t take you that far.

Other than that, you’re (almost) all set. The tide waits for no man (nor a woman).

Best of luck
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Old 16-10-2021, 15:28   #45
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Re: Critique My Plan

boatpoker, your plan is perfect in all ways, except, perhaps, for one. I find the line about your wife absolutely not doing monohulls to be a problem. That is not because I am recommending them over a cat, it is simply - does she understand what is, and can really be involved with sailing. If simply being heeled over is that big of a problem - I foresee a future problem for you. This possible misunderstanding of the uncertainties of potential discomfort goes for you also, Sir. This is not a turn the key lifestyle. I am on my sixth sailboat, with a 45 footer and a 46 footer preceding her. My wife, a relative newbie, and I just completed four days of classes, yesterday at Cruiser’s University at the Annapolis Boat Show. I highly recommend this sort of training, and further suggest that you get some offshore experience, possibly in a way that would challenge you - the sort of thing that Andy Shell and Mia Karlsson offer at 59 North. Cheers, and good luck
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