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Old 15-02-2022, 10:27   #16
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
To my knowledge only Greece and Croatia have cruising taxes. Spain has the matriculation tax issue but that only affects spainish residents.
True, but the problem is you become Spanish resident automatically if you exceed 182 days calculated cumulatively in a given calendar year (i.e. leaving Spain waters for a few days does not help). You are subject to Matriculation Tax and Spanish regulations regarding sailing certificates (rather complex), that are not easy to obtain, eg I was trying to take the exams for Yat Capetan in The Canaries in August / September last year and there was no exam centre at all! Allegedly, you can "translate" your foreign patent into Spanish one at a Maritime Office, but I haven't tried that. Besides, they have really creazy regulations about commercial boats and VAT deductions, but it's a different story.
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Old 15-02-2022, 11:20   #17
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

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Originally Posted by davil View Post
following this thread with interest.

On a very simple view and only for ECC countries.

I realize countries outside the Common Market have their own rules and can find the info online

If I sail to Europe and sell my boat, as used/second hand boat in an EEC area will not require paying VAT ?
If so, the only expenses will be to the broker?
FYI:

The European Economic Community (EEC) was a regional organization that aimed to bring about economic integration among its member states. It was created by the Treaty of Rome of 1957. Upon the formation of the European Union in 1993, the EEC was incorporated into the EU and renamed the European Community (EC). In 2009, the EC formally ceased to exist and its institutions were directly absorbed by the EU. This made the Union the formal successor institution of the Community.


Specific to your American made Cape Dory and its prospective import to the EU for sale. Fortunately the EU retaliatory tariff has been rescinded.

2021 ended on a positive note for American boat makers when the European Union’s (EU’s) retaliatory tariffs came to an end. The EU and the United States (US) agreed to eliminate the 25% retaliatory tariffs that the EU placed on all American-fabricated engines and boats entering the 27-member-state union.

The EU’s decision to end retaliatory tariffs was announced back in November 2021, and the move couldn’t have been more timely. Why? Because the European Union’s tariffs were slated to rise from 25% to 50% on December 1.



The imported boat would be subject EU tariff [as thence applicable] and VAT if it is not placed in temporary importation / temporary admission declaration.

VAT stands for “Value-Added Tax.” It’s a consumption tax that applies to all goods and services, whether physical or digital. That means every time a customer purchases a good or service in the EU, they pay VAT on the spot. The seller collects the VAT from the customer and pays some or all of it to the government.
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Old 15-02-2022, 12:06   #18
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

[QUOTE=Montanan
VAT stands for “Value-Added Tax.” It’s a consumption tax that applies to all goods and services, whether physical or digital. That means every time a customer purchases a good or service in the EU, they pay VAT on the spot. The seller collects the VAT from the customer and pays some or all of it to the government.[/QUOTE]

==================================
thank you very much

sorry using outdated terminology.
Asked this question as a reassurance to what I read/Google stating a "second hand boat"did not have to pay VAT" and thought to be too good to be true.
Perhaps is only on EU second hand boats that is assumed? they have paid the tax sometime in the past.
oh well, if somehow decide to do it will have to consider bringing her back.

Again, thank you.
take care

PS Plan B Nova Scotia in effect.
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Old 16-02-2022, 07:07   #19
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Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by davil View Post
following this thread with interest.



On a very simple view and only for ECC countries.



I realize countries outside the Common Market have their own rules and can find the info online



If I sail to Europe and sell my boat, as used/second hand boat in an EEC area will not require paying VAT ?

If so, the only expenses will be to the broker?


The issue as to VAT will largely depend on the status of the buyer. There is no specific requirement that forced you to pay the vat merely to sell the boat. Lots of boats in the EU are advertised as VAT not paid sales.
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Old 16-02-2022, 07:20   #20
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pirate Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by davil View Post
following this thread with interest.

On a very simple view and only for ECC countries.

I realize countries outside the Common Market have their own rules and can find the info online

If I sail to Europe and sell my boat, as used/second hand boat in an EEC area will not require paying VAT ?
If so, the only expenses will be to the broker?
In your dreams..
VAT and CE certification before you sell in the EU.. unless the buyer is prepared to take the hit.
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Old 16-02-2022, 07:23   #21
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The issue as to VAT will largely depend on the status of the buyer. There is no specific requirement that forced you to pay the vat merely to sell the boat. Lots of boats in the EU are advertised as VAT not paid sales.
All privately owned vessels used by EU residents within the EU are required to pay a Value Added Tax (VAT).


VAT when buying a used boat

If the buyer is not resident in an EU country, they can temporarily import the vessel without paying VAT, for instance to cruise in the EU, for a period of usually up to 18 months. In this instance, the VAT that would be due is deferred pending the discharge of the temporary importation / admission by being exported within the 18 month VAT collection waiver period.

If the permanent importation of the boat coincides with transferring the buyer's residence from outside the EU, to the EU, it may qualify for VAT relief. Similarly, a VAT paid boat exported from the EU (such as when long-term cruising) may also qualify for relief on its return if it’s returned to the EU within three years of export, imported by the same person who exported it from the EU, and has not undergone significant repairs that increased its value. Complications also arise because a VAT paid boat can lose this status. This will happen, for instance, if it’s sold outside the EU – even if purchaser and vendor are EU residents – and VAT must then be paid if the boat is brought back into the EU. Equally, boats that are kept outside the EU for more than three years may be required to pay VAT again.

https://www.yachtworld.com/research/...20VAT%20relief.
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Old 16-02-2022, 07:23   #22
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The issue as to VAT will largely depend on the status of the buyer. There is no specific requirement that forced you to pay the vat merely to sell the boat.
===================================
thank you

looks is a complicated issue, previous owner of my CD sailed her to Europe and returned, the allure of a crossing for me is there, unlikely but who knows?
If it does look like, will make sense to me to sell the boat, not sure is there enough of me to sail back (of course could have a professional delivery person bring it back)
The pandemic and having forfeited 2 years of sailing plays tricks, with the return to sailing this season "old fantasies?"are again present.
Just mulling options, like I mentioned, we have a few more months to play south and return to the Canadian maritime this season.
thanks again for your response
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Old 16-02-2022, 07:35   #23
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

Will see
realistically the market value is really very low, if a sale was to happen am sure there will be a workable solution.
Cannot recall a single boat I sold returning what was invested.
Thank you all for pitching in, appreciate.
Better go back to my boat, finishing a new grated teak for the cockpit.
Need to move my a...s from the couch and spending time on the laptop.
Sayonara
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Old 16-02-2022, 09:25   #24
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
All privately owned vessels used by EU residents within the EU are required to pay a Value Added Tax (VAT).


VAT when buying a used boat

If the buyer is not resident in an EU country, they can temporarily import the vessel without paying VAT, for instance to cruise in the EU, for a period of usually up to 18 months. In this instance, the VAT that would be due is deferred pending the discharge of the temporary importation / admission by being exported within the 18 month VAT collection waiver period.

If the permanent importation of the boat coincides with transferring the buyer's residence from outside the EU, to the EU, it may qualify for VAT relief. Similarly, a VAT paid boat exported from the EU (such as when long-term cruising) may also qualify for relief on its return if it’s returned to the EU within three years of export, imported by the same person who exported it from the EU, and has not undergone significant repairs that increased its value. Complications also arise because a VAT paid boat can lose this status. This will happen, for instance, if it’s sold outside the EU – even if purchaser and vendor are EU residents – and VAT must then be paid if the boat is brought back into the EU. Equally, boats that are kept outside the EU for more than three years may be required to pay VAT again.

https://www.yachtworld.com/research/...20VAT%20relief.


People need to stop requoting boiler plate text and try and deal with the OPs situation

Simply to sell the boat there is no onus to pay the vat simply to sell the boat. There are many buyers who may be looking for such a boat. Eu corporate buyers , charter companies, eu non tax residents , third country nationals etc.

If a EU resident buys the boat the onus falls to him to ensure vat is paid. This could be presale or post sale.
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Old 16-02-2022, 09:46   #25
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

The place the yacht is purchased and the owner’s place of residence will determine what tax and duties may be due upon purchase. These are usually VAT and transfer tax or import duties. In general terms, any EU resident who buys a new build or secondhand yacht that is not VAT-paid will be required to pay VAT on the hull at the VAT rate applicable at the place of delivery, unless the yacht is acquired for commercial purposes or through a leasing scheme.
The rules are different for non-EU residents, who are permitted to use private yachts in the Mediterranean under Temporary Admission for up to 18 months without being liable to pay VAT on the hull.

And there be an additional complication and cost applied to the owner / seller of the boats in the UK and EU, not just the duty and VAT to contend with.

Owners and brokers of second hand boats, who want to sell between the UK and the EU, or from a third country will face an additional bill generally ranging between £500-£5,000 for a Post Construction Assessment and third-party verification.

Both the UK and EU have confirmed that any vessel being traded second-hand between the UK and EU will be required to meet the obligations set out in either the Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) in the EU or the Recreational Craft Regulations (RCR) in the UK when placed on either market after the 1 January 2021. A pre-owned vessel being imported from the EU to be placed on the UK market will, after 1 January 2022 (due to the one year grace period the UK has given to CE marked new products being placed on the UK market), be required to obtain a new UK Conformity Assessed (UKCA) mark in line with the requirements of the RCR.

In order to obtain a UKCA mark, a boat will require a Post Construction Assessment and third-party verification. Similar rules will apply when selling vessels into the EU. Pre-owned CE marked vessels which were in the UK at the end of the Brexit transition period (31 December 2020), when exported to the EU will be required to undergo a recertification of the CE mark when being placed on the EU market. This means a boat will require a Post Construction Assessment in line with the RCD and third-party verification. The estimated costs of Post Construction Assessments and verification are between £500-£5,000 dependent on the vessel. The RYA and British Marine say boat brokerages, distributors, boat owners and buyers ‘may well be heavily affected by this post-Brexit position, as the responsibility will fall upon them to ensure a vessel meets the applicable requirements before buying and selling second-hand boats between the UK and EU.’
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Old 16-02-2022, 09:57   #26
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

Just to reiterate , there is no specific requirement for the OP to pay the vat merely to sell the boat.
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Old 19-02-2022, 09:09   #27
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

New to forum so I apologize if protocols are not followed. European purchase to be sailed and flagged in BVI: I didn’t read of an exact scenario that I am contemplating. We are considering buying a new Hanse through a BVI corporation to be built to USCG standards and US systems for resale value and delivered to Med where we can enjoy for a period of time (6 - 18 mo. Is what I have read) before the boat must leave EU to avoid VAT. At such time we will sail to BVI where it will stay. As I understand it, this would avoid any immediate US duty taxes or state sales taxes. We would pay all duties and fees required by BVI which are minimal. I would ask any EU friends if by owning a house in France complicates the avoidance of paying French VAT even though we are non-EU citizens. Great information on this site. Thank you.
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Old 19-02-2022, 11:58   #28
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

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New to forum so I apologize if protocols are not followed. European purchase to be sailed and flagged in BVI: I didn’t read of an exact scenario that I am contemplating. We are considering buying a new Hanse through a BVI corporation to be built to USCG standards and US systems for resale value and delivered to Med where we can enjoy for a period of time (6 - 18 mo. Is what I have read) before the boat must leave EU to avoid VAT. At such time we will sail to BVI where it will stay. As I understand it, this would avoid any immediate US duty taxes or state sales taxes. We would pay all duties and fees required by BVI which are minimal. I would ask any EU friends if by owning a house in France complicates the avoidance of paying French VAT even though we are non-EU citizens. Great information on this site. Thank you.

Yes owning a house can complicate things if the French decided to press the case. The likelihood is they won’t bother. The vat law is not related to EU citizenship , it’s related to whether you are established inside or outside the EU

Note that Tip is based on importing the boat , in theory if you buy the boat in the EU you need to export it and then import it to claim tip
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Old 19-02-2022, 12:01   #29
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

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Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
FYI:

The European Economic Community (EEC) was a regional organization that aimed to bring about economic integration among its member states. It was created by the Treaty of Rome of 1957. Upon the formation of the European Union in 1993, the EEC was incorporated into the EU and renamed the European Community (EC). In 2009, the EC formally ceased to exist and its institutions were directly absorbed by the EU. This made the Union the formal successor institution of the Community.


Specific to your American made Cape Dory and its prospective import to the EU for sale. Fortunately the EU retaliatory tariff has been rescinded.

2021 ended on a positive note for American boat makers when the European Union’s (EU’s) retaliatory tariffs came to an end. The EU and the United States (US) agreed to eliminate the 25% retaliatory tariffs that the EU placed on all American-fabricated engines and boats entering the 27-member-state union.

The EU’s decision to end retaliatory tariffs was announced back in November 2021, and the move couldn’t have been more timely. Why? Because the European Union’s tariffs were slated to rise from 25% to 50% on December 1.



The imported boat would be subject EU tariff [as thence applicable] and VAT if it is not placed in temporary importation / temporary admission declaration.

VAT stands for “Value-Added Tax.” It’s a consumption tax that applies to all goods and services, whether physical or digital. That means every time a customer purchases a good or service in the EU, they pay VAT on the spot. The seller collects the VAT from the customer and pays some or all of it to the government.
Vat is a transaction tax. It must be accounted for every time goods are purchased , sold , imported or exported and can be paid multiple times on the same item.
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Old 19-02-2022, 12:13   #30
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Re: Buying an EU boat - registration/tax/other issues

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New to forum so I apologize if protocols are not followed. Related thread topic, not a hijacking.

European purchase to be sailed and flagged in BVI: I didn’t read of an exact scenario that I am contemplating. We are considering buying a new Hanse through a BVI corporation to be built to USCG standards and US systems for resale value and delivered to Med where we can enjoy for a period of time (6 - 18 mo. Is what I have read) before the boat must leave EU to avoid VAT.

At such time we will sail to BVI where it will stay.

As I understand it, this would avoid any immediate US duty taxes or state sales taxes. The BVI are not USA or USA territorial status, hence no USA tax jurisdiction. If and when you import the vessel to the USA and / or its territories then you would be dealing with importation specific to the jurisdiction that you entered. As to the USVI, adjacent to the BVI: although a U.S. territory, the USVI is expressly excluded by statute from the customs territory of the United States. Therefore, the USVI Legislature has the power to establish its own customs regulations. Thus refer to USVI regulations for importing a vessel.

References: https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fi...nd%20MOA_0.pdf

https://resources.harneys.com/acton/...0the%20BVI.pdf



Puerto Rico and any of the States invokes USA customs regulations.
As to the 50 States, each has their own Sales / Use / Excise taxation.


We would pay all duties and fees required by BVI which are minimal.

Reference: https://www.mondaq.com/export-contro...0licence%20fee.

I would ask any EU friends if by owning a house in France complicates the avoidance of paying French VAT even though we are non-EU citizens.

Where is your country of residency? Owing a home does not in itself establish residency but can become a factor.

EU residency, not EU citizenship triggers EU VAT and imporation duties.

What country or countries do you have citzenship and / or residency permits?


Great information on this site. Thank you.
See above.
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