Are wooden hull boats a viable option or should I steer clear?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

What are you talking about, Jimmy? Do you have any idea where I am from? Sure, yards will "build to order" should one have the required funds, yet Hinckley Inc. hasn't built a Sou'Wester hull in wood for ... uhhh .... well ... maybe before you were born? I don't know. Anyway, fiberglass, it is. It's the same with Little Harbor, Bristol, etc.

Not quite sure why I am taking the time to reply to your response.

By the way, I used to occasionally glance at your photo, and if I am not incorrect, it only now states something about "planking". Am I wrong?

Ciao

In order of appearance:

No idea of where you are from, don't much care. But being from Maine (I think that is what your are trumpeting about) does not make you especially qualified to comment on the timber boat building trade or the lack thereof. Only experience qualifies one for that, and you haven't mentioned that you have such experience... perhaps you do.

I admire Hinkley's craft unabashedly. I don't know when they last built a timber boat but would bet that it was well within my lifetime... and my kids lifetime and perhaps my elder grandkids as well. But I fail to see what that has to do with the OP's interest in an epoxy/timber composite boat built somewhere in California (likely, but not sure). If you are trying to scare him away from the purchase, why not just say so?

I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to reply either.

And finally, the verbiage under my avatar photo has not changed since first posted many years ago. The boat hasn't changed either, except we've put another 30,000 miles under the keel (now, between the original owner/builder and us she's logged around 125,000 in total, over a thirty year life). And she's doing fine, thank you, with far less hull maintenance than most glass boats, needing no barrier coatings or osmosis treatment... and yes, she is strip plank construction in WRC, all set in epoxy with a thin glass layer inside and out.

And to answer your final question, yes, you are wrong.

Jim

[nortonscove]

Just took all of the hardware off of my friends 50 year old mast. He had the boat ripped apart last year. It was an Atkin Elf built by a master builder in Glovertown Newfoundland in the sixties. Great looking boat but a pain to sail with the gaff rig. He moved to a Niagara 35 in his later years. Didn't seem to trust the wooden boat any more. I've worked on plenty of them but do sail a glass one by choice.

[Mike Banks]

Made of wood will cost you good.

[SV Sailfish]

Originally Posted by Siberian Sea

My first boat was wood. I loved that boat. But...... there were nights spend aboard I swear I could hear the worms eating my hull......

+1

Real wood hulls, (not cold molded) are great in cold water areas. And not so great in the tropics. (such as Hawaii) I had a 1925 62' wood hull sailboat berthed in Hawaii for 2 years. At least twice the work to maintain compared to fiberglass. In Seattle or San Francisco, about the same upkeep as my GRP boat. Water, air temps and humidity levels really affect maintenance costs. The higher the air/water temps, the faster your wood boat deteriorates. Fast! Stick old woodie out on a mooring in the tropics and you have a recipe for a migraine.

Cold molded hulls, when built properly are a great way to go. But... lots are not constructed properly and delamination can occur. Then, you have trouble.

As a prospective new sailor/boat owner, I think I would look for an older production 30 footer in good shape to cut my teeth on. And... it could quite possibly save you from divorce court.

Cheers and good luck!

[Jim Cate]

Surfdoc, thanks for the link. I had a good look at the info there and found it kinda sad. That's one hell of a boat with one hell of a lot of (old) gear and stuff and sails and...

And a very reasonable sort of price if she's sound.

But, IMO not a good idea for your purposes. NOT because she's timber, but because she's an old race boat and really unsuited for your future plans. Even day sailing her would tax a novice to the utmost, and to think of her as a potential cruiser... nope, beyond reasonable.

And this is coming from one who spent 17 years cruising in an old IOR one tonner... arguably not suited for cruising either! But she had a rather nice timber fitout from the start and had had some additional furniture added by previous owners, so quite different from the Farr. (One result of this difference was that our boat was never competitive at any serious level, unlike the Farr!)

I applaud your plan to buy a smaller starter boat for experience gain. If you find one that is of a popular design in Hawaii you shouldn't loose too much money (try to avoid the urge to improve upon what you buy... just sail and maintain, or else the losses will mount up).

And for all of you pundits who cried out against "any wood boat", your lack of experience with modern timber construction shows clearly. The difference between epoxy/timber composite construction and traditional carvel plank construction is truly profound and all of the old wisdom that decries "them damn wood boats that are dying every day in the water" is invalid.

Jim

[Jim Cate]

I’m wondering how the worm got into your rudder? I expect it would have been sheathed and for them to pop out through the skin. Or is my imagination going wild? I didn’t think they could get in under the sheathing. Unless the result of prior damage. Or I’m not getting a clear understanding?

Hi Woody,

Answering for Ann...

The worm was actually in the partial skeg, not the rudder itself. What had happened was apparently we hit something floating in the sea and knocked a small strip of the glass off... about 25x75 mm in area. It was perhaps six weeks between when we noticed the ding and when we slipped the boat for the repair. Not sure how long it had been there when noticed!The repair consisted of a light grind feathering the glass (very thin) back to sound conditions and drying the timber out, followed by reglassing and fairing. There were perhaps a dozen worm holes, none larger than a mm in diameter and not deep as far as we could determine. At any rate, a trivial repair that has held up for around ten years now.

Cheers,

Jim

[Fore and Aft]

I agree Jim, wood epoxy boats are very good if they have been built properly. My first yacht was a 1980s plywood/epoxy yacht that spent 3 days sunk in Wellington Harbour. I restored her and 23 years later she is still being regularly used in NZ.
A well built timber/epoxy boat should last a lifetime.
Cheers

[tankersteve]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Surfdoc, thanks for the link. I had a good look at the info there and found it kinda sad. That's one hell of a boat with one hell of a lot of (old) gear and stuff and sails and...

And a very reasonable sort of price if she's sound.

But, IMO not a good idea for your purposes. NOT because she's timber, but because she's an old race boat and really unsuited for your future plans. Even day sailing her would tax a novice to the utmost, and to think of her as a potential cruiser... nope, beyond reasonable.

And this is coming from one who spent 17 years cruising in an old IOR one tonner... arguably not suited for cruising either! But she had a rather nice timber fitout from the start and had had some additional furniture added by previous owners, so quite different from the Farr. (One result of this difference was that our boat was never competitive at any serious level, unlike the Farr!)

I applaud your plan to buy a smaller starter boat for experience gain. If you find one that is of a popular design in Hawaii you shouldn't loose too much money (try to avoid the urge to improve upon what you buy... just sail and maintain, or else the losses will mount up).

And for all of you pundits who cried out against "any wood boat", your lack of experience with modern timber construction shows clearly. The difference between epoxy/timber composite construction and traditional carvel plank construction is truly profound and all of the old wisdom that decries "them damn wood boats that are dying every day in the water" is invalid.

Jim

My experience isn't anything like Jim's, but I'll second his assessment with a few specifics.

Look at that cockpit - extremely functional for a mid to large crew while racing, but absolutely nothing to encourage comfortable seating while anchored or in a marina. Also, that rig is going to be a lot of work. I don't know how many to manage it efficiently, but likely at least 3 IMHO.

As far as the interior, does she have standing headroom? The interior pic s were of an angle to potentially exaggerate the headroom. Also, I see the exposed head - how about a shower? Then there is that galley, er pre-packaged food warming spot. Is there a sink aboard between galley and head? I'm not taken that much aback by the spartan furnishings, but head and galley matter if you want to cruise, IMO.

I wouldn't get too excited at all those sails until they've been inspected by a competent person. This was a racer - many are likely blown out. The tools and spares and such are nice but not an influencer of any real kind. How about the battery bank - is there one? Or just a starter battery. Also, that looks like a gate valve at the stern - are there more, or proper seacocks?

Finally, that hull, while in all likelihood not specifically more maintenance-intensive than a GRP boat, is a racing hull. It looks slippery and fast, but also looks rather flat and will pound.

If nothing I mentioned is a concern to you, then she may be just what you want. But there are better options for a beginning sailor. I'd really like to be a beginning sailor, but I'm one of those dumb knuckleheads refitting a boat that had rainwater damage to interior bulkheads, and 4 years later I'm still not in the water. Buy a boat that is solid but needs TLC, sail the crap out her and have fun and learn. Don't get a project unless you really don't need a social life, hobbies, or cash for anything else.

Tankersteve

[Mossy Man]

Hi Surfdoc
I have owned both timber and fibreglass. Presently I have an Alan Payne 28 built in Sydney in 1951. To own a timber boat you need to be a bit handy to be able to fix a few things as Shipwrights’s services are very expensive.
I have drawn inspiration from the forum members to fix problems myself ranging from working on my 45 year old Kubota to fixing some rot in the cabin side which I am doing at the moment.
I have not really found that the hull needs much more care than a fibreglass hullas long as you haul yearly.
The pleasure of sailing Wynstay can not be described as it is a joy to sail, a bit cramped to stay on but still a lot of fun. I mainly day sail but have ventured up the coast and she handles the seaway well.
She is strip planked Oregon on spotted gum frames. Good luck with whatever you buy.

[Tillsbury]

Remember that a serious racing boat like that is built for a small number of seasons, and pared down to make it competitive. They are furiously expensive to build and incredibly cheap just a few years down the line. It would be reasonably expected, for example, to replace the keel with a new design after two or three years to keep it competitive. The original build was effectively the complete opposite of a quality cruising boat built for longevity.

And take note of the comments above explaining that it will be a seriously uncomfortable ride. They’re built to go fast with lots of crew, for no longer than it takes to do Sydney/Hobart or similar, nothing else.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

In order of appearance:

No idea of where you are from, don't much care.

That's OK. It's Maine, where Hinckley yachts are made.

I admire Hinkley's craft unabashedly. I don't know when they last built a timber boat but would bet that it was well within my lifetime...

Here you go, and I suppose that makes you somewhere around 65, or above?:

"In the '50s ... Hinckley was one of the first to forego traditional oak frames and planking in favor of fiberglass..."

https://www.hinckleyyachts.com/our-story/

If you are trying to scare him away from the purchase, why not just say so?

I did just the opposite. Can you read? I stated that owning a wooden boat might bring great happiness and joy, just knowing that it is wood. Moreover, I posted the video about "Mayan", such a beautiful wooden schooner. Are those the actions of someone trying to "scare" someone away?

not sure why you felt it necessary to reply either.

Because you replied directly to me, regarding my knowledge of the construction history of Hinckley sailboats. You wrote something like "Perhaps ...". If you are still wondering (i.e., confused) about Hinckley and wood, then please see above.

Ciao

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I admire Hinkley's craft unabashedly. I don't know when they last built a timber boat

As a quick follow-up, here's a wooden '57:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=481t...&frags=pl%2Cwn

Not my boat, and I don't know the owner. See how nice I am, Jim?

Ciao

[Jim Cate]

If you are still wondering (i.e., confused) about Hinckley and wood, then please see above.

I bow to your knowledge of Hinkley's history, and they build a fine boat and have done for a long time.

Now, what has the history of Hinkley and their oak framed carvel planked boats of yore got to do with the boat that the OP was considering? And if not to deter the OP, why tell him that this unique yard has changed over to glass and other composite materials?

He has taken all our thoughts in hand and decided against the boat, and for good reasons... none of which were related to its being timber/epoxy composite as far as I can see.

Anyhow, I'm sorry that you can't see the advantages of this sort of construction when considering any one-off build... as this boat was. For a series production build, glass or other laminate has huge fiscal advantages and I think that's why they so completely dominate the sailing scene. Bean counters rule the waves...

And FYI I'm 81 and my eldest child is about to be 60, so I wasn't far off!

Enough.

Jim

[Surfdoc23]

Thanks to all of you for the advice. To be honest, I am interested in learning more about and possibly getting into racing down the road. That is one of the reasons this boat caught my attention. With that said, right now I am more concerned with finding a good boat that is safe to sail and gain sailing experience on. We started sailing at the Marina on base and got checked out on the Capri 18 and Rhodes 19 so we can and have sailed them to gain experience but they are restricted to the harbor. Our Basic Keelboat class was on a Ranger 33 and we will be back on it this weekend to finish up the coastal cruising course. I think something between 25 and 35 ft is probably ideal. Our long term goal is to be able to stay out for the weekend and sail between the islands once we have more experience and confidence.

Thanks again. I really do appreciate it.

[Jim Cate]

Thanks again. I really do appreciate it.

You're welcome... that's what we are here for! And your plan sounds quite reasonable, too. Good luck with it, and check in here now and then and let us know how it is going.

Jim