Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

[cAmstar]

Once again i'm completely impressed by all of the thoughtful responses. Here's some feedback:

- I say 2 years because that seems like a decent amount of time to enjoy time with family without being out of the workforce too long. If we could make a living while cruising then of course my wife and i would both love to stretch this to 4 years or even longer, but we have to be realistic financially. We have two kids age 6 and 8, so feel that if we set sail in 2 years it will be a great stage for them

- Our dream is a CAT and our dream starting point is Croatia or Greece. That said, the realistic half of me realizes we may have to 'downsize' our dream. And yes, perhaps that means a monohull and a starting point of wherever we find the boat.

- I am very aware of the "BOAT" acronym and although it's impossible to budget perfectly, I want to aim on the high side to be conservative.

I am printing off your responses and putting them in our trip binder which we will read frequently as reference material as we prepare for our journey.

Cheers, CS

[Montanan]

CE certifications, if necessary. The CE Yacht Compliance Classification System is the European (CE stands for “ Conformité Européenne ” in French) dictating the standards for CE Certification for construction and sale of boats. Vessels in one of the categories of controlled products cannot be legally sold in the EU unless they have passed the tests to receive the CE Certification.

Import duties if not previously paid within the EU.

Albeit those may be required of the seller so as to be permitted to sell the boat, if the boat and its appurtenances were entered to the EU under temporary admission waiver.

[Sohum]

Ahoy Camstar,,
There’re a multitude of sailing budget entailed threads on CF.. some great info, lots to scour thru. I’ve recently realized a similar “dream”, and totally relate to your post, along with the many who have, and do as well. It’s so fresh in mind, I can share my experience and hope it gives some insight..
Glad I waited till morning I just read your post 31,

I think your better off taking sailing lessons, the both of you.. Where abouts in Canada are you? U can also have fun with hobie cats, then transition to formal instruction, work up to coastal cruising or equivalent. That should require multiple charter days from your “school or sailing club”. It’ll build your resume. From there, honestly I think your better off longer term Chartering. Take extended vacations, 2-3 months when your ready, U mentioned Croatia, as you get closer to “realizing”, look into charter outfits in Croatia, look into pricing incentives on month plus contracts. . There must be good deals on older fleet cats. I bet you can find something pre 2012 for 20k usd /month, self charter. Rent for 1-2 months, finish, then take a month or so traveling inland, do a rail journey. Say 10k month(u can save money here or gain much value using Airbnb strategically). Another option, look into sailing vacations for sale type offerings.
Approx 7k for Transportation to/ from, extending stay further cuts into this cost factor…even better. Enjoy a few years exploring the med. . Im posting this first, will post again soon re: if you buy.

[cAmstar]

We are in Vancouver. My wife and kids are taking lessons. I will hopefully re-learn as we come out of the pandemic by signing up for crew opportunities in the weekly race series. I grew up sailing as a child with my family but stopped in my late 20's.

I get the charter aspect may be cheaper in the long run. But to me it seems so much different than sailing to far off places with no set schedule (aside from the wind/weather/seasons).

[Zzmeyer]

You have received great advice here. Yours is a very common question. My two cents: find a broker you can trust. Buying in a foreign country is complicated and having someone who knows or can steer you in the right direction. Commission is paid by the seller and while some will argue you can get it cheaper without the commission in my experience those who don’t use a broker aren’t doing it to get the buyer a cheaper price. I don’t know financing on a foreign owned boat being bought by a Canadian, but agree with an earlier comment to get it pre approved before you go looking. My guess is that it may be a bit difficult if you are quitting your job to go cruising. Good luck. Your plan Ana approach is solid

[cAmstar]

Thanks. And just to clarify, I wasn't looking to finance the boat purchase. The "subject to financing" was just an example. We plan to buy and rent out a townhouse to stay in the market. We then would sell our current home to fund the boat. The timing would of course be tricky - being able to find the boat we like, then sell our home, and then buy the boat would be ideal. The alternative would be to sell our home with a two month possession and then hope to find the dream boat during those two months.

[C420sailor]

Nothing wrong with doing some big time cruising now, when life allows, and then reverting to life as a weekend warrior for a while. Life happens. Not everyone can up and sail the world until the day they die.

I know one couple who did exactly that. Rocked the DINK thing for a while, bought a sick boat, sailed for a couple years, then decided they wanted to have kids and live a more traditional landlubber life for a while. Now they have their same boat, sail on the weekends and take trips with the kids now and then. It’s their perfect balance, and they plan to get back out there when the nest empties.

[Cheechako]

Isn't VAT huge? Like 20%? Why not buy U.S. and sail away with 0 tax?

Figure some outfitting and upgrading. I doubt you will find a well found $200k cat that is ready. Many boats "have things", but many of those things are obsolete or not really fully functional.
- A used boat listed with a watermaker may not have a good watermaker as it's sat a year or more. New membrane at minimum may be required.
- Electronics. Sail condition. Rigging, Bottom paint
-Good Dingy and motor? $5k

[cAmstar]

Re: VAT. We are totally open to anything. We like Europe as a starting point but if VAT will render that much more expensive, then a Florida start is no problem.

And C420Sailor, that is sort of like us, except we had kids first, and now want to take the kids with us. The game plan would be to sell the boat after our journey. Perhaps we would get into lighter sailing when we retire or become empty nesters.

Someone above had said "only two years....and then back to the life you're fleeing from??", but we are at the point where we want change anyway. If the boat thing doesn't happen, we will in the very least move to a smaller community. The real estate market here has become unaffordable. Even though we are already in, we need more space and trading up is now impossible. So we would be selling anyway and moving. The boat dream is a two year interval that will probably end up costing a lot of money but it's something we both want to do.

[Sohum]

Hey Camstar, some more info:
Goto yachtworld or similar, search cats 200-250k range. There’s most def wiggle room in pricing and the occasional finding the gem of a deal, a real “cream puff”. Keep 60k usd/annual staycation loosely budgeted, in mind.
Questions and considerations: you will avoid all this by staycationing.

Re :
1. Sell home, purchase boat. A lot to consider, and work thru.
Renting, will need to be rental ready, also consider home maintenance. Will the roof need replacing soon? Anything need staining, driveway coated? If your rural, road maintenance? Addressing anything exterior will be seasonal.

What we did, decided to rent our home. Took possession 6/2018 got stay in FL permit of 180. We live in Nor Cali. Did extensive home renovations, some much needed, and others a fresh make over.
If you don’t mind me sharing, ( wish we document all this, that would’ve put me off ropes end tho. ). 6 month countdown, which in reality was +2 weeks ahead of closing, -4 weeks, for moving time. We contract hire new roof, skylights, gutters , rebuild 1300 sq ft decking, build new pergola entry side of house. tied a massive concrete slab into 1 corner of foundation(sat closer to edge of hillside), have delivered 30 cu/ft of crushed rock gets spread around property. Son and I, basically pack up “to keep” items move them to SF. There’s a moving sale, and sell one car. We condense to 2 rooms. Bare minimum. Set up shop, lay flooring in the master plus 1 bedroom. Paint 100% of interior/ exterior. Prep, repair, seal coat 1800 sq ft of blacktop(road and landing). Swap to LED the cans in kitchen/living, new switches and plugs, new water heater, 3 toilets, 2 vanities, dishwasher. Leave it at that. (It was sad leaving )
Leave for SF, sell my truck, in a mini van we drive CC to Lauderdale. My son, our dog, and self. We stayed 3 days in Ft Lauderale, Insurance required 60 hrs onboard training which obviously hadn’t been done. I have been in talks with a Capt, he left a loose schedule for when we arrived. We begin onboard training while headed to GA. Needless to say, we received 1/3 of the required 60. That was fine, we found a great Marina with awesome rates. Great place to settle in and get to know our boat.

2. Finance, I’m not a financial advisor, however, crunch some numbers on a amortization calculator, compare results with different inputs.. How much monthly interest are you willing to pay? I say monthly, assuming you plan on selling when done. 2-3 years (seems very short time.) **Inapplicable per post #36. **. I think it’s good info for others

3. Re move logistics. Your picturing move into monthly term rental till your home sells, then look for a boat. Off the top of my head… I say this will eat into 200k. (This could be $15-40k usd if not more)**est. spending***

If you purchase, imo, east coast US or C is best. Consider 6 mo - 1 year to really know your boat, it’s systems, layout, etc. Stay put , have a base. Take this time for fitting out, Shake her down, enjoy the area, there’ll be servicing, maintaining, repairing, replacing, numerous items. Who will do this? Shop is faster, and $$$. It very well can be combo. That’s what we did. I have years of auto repair experience but moving onboard, the newness of everything, it’s a lot!!! I hired out a few repairs from the start. Now it’s different. I pick and choose, preferring to diy. Would like to reupholster, no rush I think there’s better prices outside the states.. .. Additionally insurance may require additional onboard instruction. There will be items of compliance to satisfy insurance binding. ***come up with a generous est cost here **(include travel, dockage, utilities,” refit & fix” items, monthly living budget.)

4. For us purchasing abroad never an option.
If your looking to purchase abroad, upon finding, best to find out as much as possible, ask for more pictures. Once vetted, and proceeding will u trust a surveyor alone, w/out getting your eyes on boat? Hope not, that means travel, (probably solo).
Cannot comment on VAT nor the purchase process abroad. There will be Schengen stay laws. From what I’ve read on CF, time spent in repairing factors in to something, not sure what, I don’t think it applies to 90 day stay tho..

Additionally, closing cost, insurance, survey, haul out, travel ex, mooring if needed(you will, your not gonna move on and sail away that fast). Imo
Some food for thought.

[fireant]

Some great posts with lots of insight on what it takes to start.
I learning from you guys as well.
Must wonder how many folks who plan to sail actually make it?

[Sohum]

Originally Posted by cAmstar

- I say 2 years because that seems like a decent amount of time to enjoy time with family without being out of the workforce too long. If we could make a living while cruising then of course my wife and i would both love to stretch this to 4 years or even longer, but we have to be realistic financially. We have two kids age 6 and 8, so feel that if we set sail in 2 years it will be a great stage for them

the realistic half of me realizes we may have to 'downsize' our dream. And yes, perhaps that means a monohull and a starting point of wherever we find the boat.

Cheers, CS

Sounds like maybe your tiny bit bummed? If so, you shouldn’t be. U did yourself a favor, u asked questions, read some things, kinda sounds like a reality check.,,…. Look what you did! Opens up options…. If your range is mono <115k closing …your refocusing imo brings you that much closer. Sometimes too many options aren’t good, this isn’t one of them.
Peace
2yrs? Kidding kinda

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by Sohum

I bet you can find something pre 2012 for 20k usd /month, self charter. Rent for 1-2 months, finish, then take a month or so traveling inland, do a rail journey.

Off season, that could work. Check the German and Austrian charter companies, as Croatia is one of their preferred cruising grounds and they tend to be more professional than the Croatian ones. Eg: https://www.pitter-yachting.com/

[pragmatist]

Originally Posted by cAmstar

Once again i'm completely impressed by all of the thoughtful responses. Here's some feedback:

- I say 2 years because that seems like a decent amount of time to enjoy time with family without being out of the workforce too long. If we could make a living while cruising then of course my wife and i would both love to stretch this to 4 years or even longer, but we have to be realistic financially. We have two kids age 6 and 8, so feel that if we set sail in 2 years it will be a great stage for them

- Our dream is a CAT and our dream starting point is Croatia or Greece. That said, the realistic half of me realizes we may have to 'downsize' our dream. And yes, perhaps that means a monohull and a starting point of wherever we find the boat.

- I am very aware of the "BOAT" acronym and although it's impossible to budget perfectly, I want to aim on the high side to be conservative.

I am printing off your responses and putting them in our trip binder which we will read frequently as reference material as we prepare for our journey.

Cheers, CS

Hi cAmstar

We are not planning girdling the world but we did change from our beloved monohull to a cat last year. We did a lot of reading, Googling and planning. But the most useful thing we did was a comparative spreadsheet. We divided items/features into Must Have, Important but not required from Day One, Desirables. Then using a basic model we costed each boat. For example, a comfortable saloon was a Must Have so if a boat had tatty upholstery we'd add in the cost of getting professional re-upholstering on that boat (vs one which did not need that). Similarly through rig, engines, charging systems, etc etc. It also helps you root out that boat which does not have, and could not be modified for, something one of you really wants. If you want a deck saloon, which personally I just love in our new-to-us cat, then if you chose to go for a monohull your choice would be both restricted and more expensive than a monohull without a deck saloon.

You talk about wanting more space on shore and doubtless that is a consideration for the trip, especially with 2 children. But there are older cats out there which are perfectly capable of a circumnavigation that are smaller and cheaper. And smaller also means smaller bills - whether that's length or width !!! Our Solaris Sunrise 36 is a very capable catamaran and there are plenty of Prout catamarans that have circumnavigated.

Whatever you choose I hope you have a fabulous time. Lots of goodies sounds great but remember simpler systems mean less to worry about, maintain and fund . Evaluate every item you choose to see if you really wouldn't want to be without it.

Penny

[catalystcat]

A couple of things to consider that are often overlooked and could really add up - repairs and spares.
You'll need to be able to fix stuff - a LOT. Everything from pumps to shackles to outboard motors. For circumnavigation, that means a pretty good array of tools and supplies. If you already have the tools, that's great. If not, you have some time to find them cheap.
As for supplies, you'll likely be surprised how these add up. Put together a list (find on internet) of spares for circumnavigation and look at the price of things, e.g., 5200, underwater epoxy, impellers, spare pumps, spare turning blocks, polishing compound, water filters, lubricants, screws, whatever. Between tools, supplies and spares, you'll have to BOAT at least a couple of times.
Two ways to save money here - make sure this kind of stuff is included with the boat if you can; and look for cheap ways to get tools and supplies (Christmas clearance sales, bulk boxes of motor oil; OfferUp, etc.)