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Old 05-07-2021, 07:10   #46
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pirate Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

6ft shorter and you could buy this brand new..

It was a dark and stormy night and the captain of the ship said.. "Hey Jim, spin us a yarn." and the yarn began like this.. "It was a dark and stormy night.."
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Old 05-07-2021, 07:14   #47
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

Originally Posted by Shanachie View Post
Just a personal opinion but, at that budget, you could buy a much nicer cruising monohull.

I know cats are the thing these days, but they are pricey and have qualities that ensure you will keep on paying and paying and paying.

For example, many yards can not haul a cat that large. Many marinas will only accommodate you at 2X the going rate for slips. Then there are the saildrives and all of the $$$ headaches they cause.

Plus, many cats on the market have been through the wear and tear of charter duty. And companies such as Dream Yacht Charter (see the threads on this site) are selling the boats.

If money is no object, go for it. But, if you are trying to get the most for your available cash, there are better ways to go.
Agreed~ That’s a reasonable budget for a 15-25 year old Monohull- a decent 40-45’ er. Catamarans are like owning 2 boats- from maintenance to haul outs to slips (and yes, you WILL need to pull out and go on the hard at some point). Add another $100k for the Cat…or pick up a turnkey Mono & sail away!
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Old 05-07-2021, 07:15   #48
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

Absolutely, catalystcat - and having the right tool when needed is a real bacon-saver !
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Old 05-07-2021, 08:14   #49
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

Originally Posted by cAmstar View Post
Once again I'm completely impressed by all of the thoughtful responses.

I am printing off your responses and putting them in our trip binder which we will read frequently as reference material as we prepare for our journey.

Here's a fantastic resource for your wife:

The Cruising Women's Advisor

Diana (and other very experienced sailing women) provide info/advice on everything from
Cruising roles and relationships
What life at sea is really like
Children on board
How to make the boat your home as well as his
Identifying the dangers and putting them into perspective . . . and much, much more.

I recommend it to all women who are part of a cruising couple. It really is an excellent resource.

Fair winds and happy planning!
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Old 05-07-2021, 08:54   #50
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

I would like to throw out a totally different thought about sailing. I have sailed for 30 years, owned 4 big boats and done many charters and have traveled abroad. The MOST stressful sailing is sailing an area you are new to. That’s basically everyday circumnavigating. In my 30’s that was my plan. I am mid 60’s today. My current plan is up and down the eastern seaboard. I need a much more affordable boat, the area is lovely. I am in US waters which are well marked and charted. Resupply is never an issue. Health care is never an issue. You could pick an area of the world and do the same. The Baltic/Med/SA/Alaska A circumnavigation is the ultimate but is very intense. Since you will probably want areas that are well documented you are really never off the beaten path. I live on the Great Lakes. I have sailed Lake Michigan for decades and not done it all. Being in Canada you can sail fresh water in the season not deal with tides/salt water/sharks or typhoons or hurricanes. Way more doable and very enjoyable and you have the off season to pursue other interests. Just a thought.
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Old 05-07-2021, 09:05   #51
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Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

Just to clear up some confusion , as a non Eu tax resident you can buy VAT not paid boats in Europe without paying the VAT. ( clearly 2nd hand vat paid , you’ll not recover the vat.

Europe has far more sailing boats to avail of then the us. The US is really mobo land imho.

Pricing of 2nd hand boats in US and EU is broadly similar as the vat tends to depreciate out.

You can keep a non vat paid boat in eu waters for 18 months , resetting the vat clock by getting out of EU waters for a day

There are significant numbers of vat not paid boats for sale in thevEU. ( foreign owners , company owned boats etc )it’s entirely legal to sell a vat not paid boat. It may be illegal for you to own it. Vat is a purchasers issue ( CE certification on the other hand remains the responsibility of the importer or builder )

Greece has a huge sailing boat population. Almost all the brokers speak English ( most are brits ) there is no problem buying in somewhere like Greece. Croatia is similar but buying boats in the EU is generally straightforward and you’ll deal with the sellers broker, I’ve bought in the U.K. , Holland , France , Italy and Greece over the last 20 years

Note that prices are high and shortages abound in boats at present due to COVID demand.

Don’t over think the circumnavigation stuff. Go sailing ( wherever you start ) build your experience and change the boat as required. Many things that “ seem “ important on paper turn out to be irrelevant and others things become very important to “ you “
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Old 05-07-2021, 09:25   #52
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

Originally Posted by cAmstar View Post
Thanks for the replies, this is exactly the sort of info i was looking for. And, sigh, yes, maybe our budget is too light for the boat.

I was listening to a older podcast recently that had an interview with a family who hit a reef with their CAT...i think it was in Fiji. The boat was toast, plus they had to pay the government $80k to dispose of the boat properly. The odd thing was that the owner had said their insurer called them just before they left Ecuador and dropped them. Is this normal? Unfortunately they didn't elaborate on why they were dropped. I'm asking because I want to look at worst-case-scenarios (beside dying of course!). Is insurance something that won't help much if the boat is lost?
Finding insurance for passages is becoming harder and harder. Many people were dropped through no fault of their own in the past few years and this is a common topic of discussion and anxiety on sailing forums. The requirements for things like having crew and having someone with a captain's license on board (even if they have less experience than the boat owner who may or may not be a 'captain') has become onerous for some companies. More people are going without insurance because they cannot find any and/or the cost is prohibitive. We currently have a small, required policy, on our boat in WA state. But once we leave the dock again and leave US/Canada waters, it's unlikely we will have hull insurance. Overall looking at your list of costs, you have barely scratched the surface.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:33   #53
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

What about the option of buying into a major charter company like The Moorings, sail lots on your boat during the three years with your included 6-12 weeks per year, get to know your boat while Moorings payments help pay it down, then take possession 3 years later, do a refit, and cruise the Carribean?

Anyone have a simple ballpark for refitting a 3 y/o charter Cat that was bought brand new?
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Old 05-07-2021, 19:21   #54
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

Originally Posted by Sohum View Post
Ahoy Camstar,,
There’re a multitude of sailing budget entailed threads on CF.. some great info, lots to scour thru. I’ve recently realized a similar “dream”, and totally relate to your post, along with the many who have, and do as well. It’s so fresh in mind, I can share my experience and hope it gives some insight..
Glad I waited till morning I just read your post 31,

I think your better off taking sailing lessons, the both of you.. Where abouts in Canada are you? U can also have fun with hobie cats, then transition to formal instruction, work up to coastal cruising or equivalent. That should require multiple charter days from your “school or sailing club”. It’ll build your resume. From there, honestly I think your better off longer term Chartering. Take extended vacations, 2-3 months when your ready, U mentioned Croatia, as you get closer to “realizing”, look into charter outfits in Croatia, look into pricing incentives on month plus contracts. . There must be good deals on older fleet cats. I bet you can find something pre 2012 for 20k usd /month, self charter. Rent for 1-2 months, finish, then take a month or so traveling inland, do a rail journey. Say 10k month(u can save money here or gain much value using Airbnb strategically). Another option, look into sailing vacations for sale type offerings.
Approx 7k for Transportation to/ from, extending stay further cuts into this cost factor…even better. Enjoy a few years exploring the med. . Im posting this first, will post again soon re: if you buy.
20k-month to charter?is to charter a cat or a monohull? Sounds expensive to me. And I agree it kind of puts a kink in the plans to go where and when you want.
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Old 06-07-2021, 18:56   #55
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

For that budget I would be looking for a nice mono hull. Eg. Just saw a beautiful, well equipped Tatyana 48 for well under 200K, probable closer to 150k. Now you will have the money for all the rest! Multi’s are expensive to buy and expensive to maintain. They are great if you have the budget. The stress on a multi is incredible by it’s very design. A cheap one and or poorly maintained one is not a good idea. There aren’t many “bargain” multi’s out there.
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Old 07-07-2021, 10:30   #56
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

Lots of nice long range cruising vessels for sale in the Sea of Cortez. Folks get that far and break up or change their mind about crossing the big water. Also, "a few years" is not longer enough. Better plan at least a decade.

Check Nazatlan and Al Pass for opportunities. Also. Moorings offers cat rentals in Baja. Maybe give it a try for a week before you jump in.
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Old 07-07-2021, 10:41   #57
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

Thanks! Can you confirm that by Nazatlan do you meant Mazatlan, in Mexico?

Over the past few weeks we have realized that perhaps the two years will be a half-circumnavigation based on lots of reading and forum comments we have seen.
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Old 07-07-2021, 14:08   #58
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Re: Additional Costs When Buying a Boat

Originally Posted by cAmstar View Post
Hi All,

My wife and I are dreaming about moving to a life on the water for a few years and I'm trying to throw some numbers into a spreadsheet to analyze the costs. Can anyone help me out on how much to budget? Here are the circumstances:

- Boat to buy: 40' catamaran, approx. USD $200k
- We want to circumnavigate so assume we buy an owner's version
- We are based in Canada and assume we want to buy in Europe where we will start our journey

What other costs should i incorporate?

x Sales tax? (VAT)?
x Boat inspection. How much is this?
x Any brokerage fees when buying a boat?
x Can we typically buy with a subject condition? ie. subject to financing, 60 day subject period. I assume they pay for mooring during this period.
x Should i budget flight and hotel to go and inspect boat?
x I assume i'll need a place to moor the day i take possession. Or does a yacht brokerage usually permit a grace period where i could keep the boat there while getting ready
x How much is moorage in a country like Croatia or Greece

The last question is are we going to be able to find an owner version, blue water-ready catamaran in a place like Croatia? Or do most of these make their way to places like Tahiti and Australia where they go up for sale?

When the 'few years' are over and you intend to return to land, don't count on selling your boat immediately in order to purchase a new home. Typically, in my experience, most boats remain on the market for up to a year or more unless they are significantly discounted.

Contact "Skippers plan" brokers in Toronto for insurance; they represent Aviva and insured my boat up and down the North America east coast and into the Caribbean as far south as Grenada. They can probably give you a quote.

Finally when we were in St Marten and the BVI's I was told that South Africans got their money out of their currency controlled country by purchasing catamarans and sailing them to the Caribe in order to sell them. Somewhat apocryphal perhaps, but we did see a lot of South African cats in the region. That was ten years ago.

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