Two weeks on the Great Lakes in June - suggestions?

[rob67]

Hi
As you can see lots of ideas and areas, north channel stands out and I have to concur with that.
Planning a trip to sail the great lakes is like saying I'm going to visit Australia, There is 10400 mi of shoreline so lots to see and do
Great Lakes Facts and Figures

here is a few things I would discuss with your uncle
1 What type of sailing -coastal island hopping,more open water longer sailing distances
2 What do you want to see- nature ,privacy gunk holing ,small towns or larger areas(cities)
3 Weather temps- northern lakes cooler than southern lakes
4 Which country do you want to charter from and where to fly into .
For anything in Ontario Toronto Pearson is the international Airport

Using cyc boat charter as example
from airport to charter company is almost 7 hrs, driving time if you can time the ferry across maybe 4hrs.(Tobermory to South Baymouth) So I would add one day on each end to get to any charter company and one day to get to airport.

I'm assuming your 2 wks is sailing time only and then factor in travel. I hope I haven't ruined your plans ,I'm just trying to give you honest info if you are planning on chartering out of Ontario Canada
Rob

[AussieSailor]

wow, what a response!! !!!! Thanks Gord for the welcome, and to everyone else too!

You've given us a fair bit to think about... The main things that are coming through loud and clear are:

It's going to be very cold.

There are going to be lots of flies. (Thanks Mike - that video was great. Loved the guy in the boat who just kept motoring overland...) Are they up north only? Or are they down around Lake Ontario as well?

Thanks a bunch for your advice on the relativity of 'cold' - as I sit here comfortably in 32C in shorts and a T-shirt, I think the local version of cold might be counted as "very bl**dy freezing" from our perspective. I'd read that it could be a bit 'chilly', but didn't stop long enough to consider just how cold that might be...

The main issue for us is that my uncle is a farmer in Germany, and thus can only get away during winter/spring - the harvest and planting goes well into autumn.

Looks like the Thousand Islands might be a better bet, but had found so many great stories of the North Channel and the northern end of Lake Michigan.... Youtube had tons of great videos (i.e. "North Channel Cruise 2013"). The guys in that video were wearing shorts and polo shirts on June 2nd, which didn't look too cold

Rob, the answers to your questions:

1 What type of sailing -coastal island hopping,more open water longer sailing distances
2 What do you want to see- nature ,privacy gunk holing ,small towns or larger areas(cities)

We are definitely fans of coastal island hopping and gunkholing, not so much into exploring land-based towns though. The plus side of small towns everywhere means if the weather turns bad for an extended period, at least we have something to do


3 Weather temps- northern lakes cooler than southern lakes

Warmer is better


4 Which country do you want to charter from and where to fly into .

Hadn't thought about this - does the country matter?

Would it be possible to sail around eastern Lake Ontario for a week, and then potter (read: motor) about the Thousand Islands for a week in a 45'er? Would this give some variety of both sailing and gunkholing and be a bit warmer? FamilyVan's (post #20) idea of eastern lake Ontario and Bay of Quinte looks like a great compromise... (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YziwZF8ViUU

looks amazing)

I have a few more questions based on the above:

1. How does it work with immigration if you're sailing around the border of US/Canada? Particularly if you are in the Thousand Islands and pull into a marina on one side one day, and one on the other side the next?

2. Are there many good overnight port facilities in this area?

3. Are the blackflies/mosquitos bad around there?

4. How long would it take to return sail to St Catharines from Kingston given the average wind conditions in June? Niagara Falls would be interesting to see!

5. Would one fly into Toronto and charter from there? Or drive to Kingston?

Again, you guys have been fantastic

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SURV69

Don't swim if it's too cold....

One suggestion ... begin somewhere like Traverse Bay or the western side of the state of Michigan.

Two weeks is not a lot, but this way you go a little north before you enter into Lake Huron(and Lake Superior too), then down Lake Huron, then "downstream", through the Saint Clair and Detroit rivers(flow will help the speed into Lake Erie), the length of Lake Erie and then try(if you have the time), to get to Lake Ontario(I think you can go mast up through the Welland Canal)

You'd be pushing it, but you'd get all 5 "truly", Great Lakes

This would be a crazy trip SURV69. I went from western Lake Superior to eastern Lake Ontario last season, including the Welland (yes, mast up unless you are very tall). You might be able to do it from northern Lake Huron or Michigan, and get to L. Ontario, but it would be in complete delivery mode -- not a relaxing vacation (and this would not include L. Superior). Although weather tends to be relatively benign at this time of year, storms are always possible. You have to plan on a few days of being storm-bound. More likely you'll have light airs.

Any of the regional suggestions (North Channel, Georgian Bay, 1000 Islands, Apostles) would work well.

[Mike OReilly]

I've offered my answers in blue here Aussie

Originally Posted by AussieSailor

I have a few more questions based on the above:

1. How does it work with immigration if you're sailing around the border of US/Canada? Particularly if you are in the Thousand Islands and pull into a marina on one side one day, and one on the other side the next?

I assume you would have to clear in each time, but there may be other solutions. Canadian/American residents can access easier boarder-crossing options like Nexus or the Remote Area Border Crossing (RABC) program. As foreign nationals, especially mixed citizenry, I suspect you'll have to do the normal clear in each time. The charter company would be able to offer guidance, but I bet it would be a lot easier to stay in one country or another.

NOTE: You can sail through the waters of the other country without clearing in as long as you don't touch ground (anchor or dock).

2. Are there many good overnight port facilities in this area?

Lots

3. Are the blackflies/mosquitos bad around there?

No where near as bad way down south. Actually, you'll likely be finished with the blackflies. Mosquitos will be more a problem, but they're a lot fewer down there anyway. Again, how "bugged" you are about bugs is a relative thing -- kinda like what you think is cold .

4. How long would it take to return sail to St Catharines from Kingston given the average wind conditions in June? Niagara Falls would be interesting to see!

Winds tend to be light early in the season on the Great Lakes. It's a 150+nm to do this run, so you're probably motoring some of the way if you're on a schedule. Prevailing winds tend to be from the west or n-west, so you'll likely be beating at least one way.

5. Would one fly into Toronto and charter from there? Or drive to Kingston?

If Kingston is the charter location (and that would be a good place for the 1000 Islands), then Ottawa is another option. Or Montreal. I'm sure Kingson also has an airport. Likely it is served by a regional airline.

Again, you guys have been fantastic

[FamilyVan]

I have a few more questions based on the above:

1. How does it work with immigration if you're sailing around the border of US/Canada? Particularly if you are in the Thousand Islands and pull into a marina on one side one day, and one on the other side the next?

2. Are there many good overnight port facilities in this area?

3. Are the blackflies/mosquitos bad around there?

4. How long would it take to return sail to St Catharines from Kingston given the average wind conditions in June? Niagara Falls would be interesting to see!

5. Would one fly into Toronto and charter from there? Or drive to Kingston?

Again, you guys have been fantastic [/QUOTE]

1) Immigration should be no problem, just call in from the phone on the dock to clear in. You can plan your trip through the thousand islands to do downbound on the Canadian side of the river via the "Canadian Middle Channel" and up bound through the main channel/American Narrows on the US side. Most of the best stops are going to be on the Canadian Side in this region however, Alexandria Bay and Oswego have much to offer from a party perspective.

2) lots of good overnight spots- the Thousand Islands is a very established cruising grounds, it was a close summer escape from New York City during the 20's. Over night stops include Kingston, gananoque, Brockvile, Clayton and A. Bay plus several very scenic anchorages. And then there's eastern Lake Ontario ports and the Bay of Quinte as well. Bay of Quinte/Prince Edward County is serious wine country.

3) There are bugs, but not like up north. I wouldn't worry about it.

4) ST Catharines (my current home port) to Kingston is about 160 miles each way. So I guess 4 days return. If I was doing it I would do the upwind leg (Kingston-st catharines) via the Bay of Quinte and Murray canal. (Make sure you're boat will fit through the canal). Stop for a day in Toronto, then shoot across to Niagara on the Lake. Yes- this is worth your while. Do your return leg down the middle of the lake with the prevailing westerly at your back.

5) You definitely want to fly into Toronto, you can charter from either Toronto or Kingston. If you chartered from Toronto I would start with a trip across the lake to NOL, then sail down wind to the thousand islands and return to Toronto via bay of Quinte, Murray canal. This might be a good way to go.

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[wmac]

The Bay of Quinte and the Thousand Islands offer some wonderful sailing and gunkholing. Lots of good wind in June and relatively flat water in both. The cities, (Kingston, Bellville, Trenton) on the Canadian side are very good stop off points. The water will be nippy, especially on the St. Lawrence, so you'll need to be tough to do much swimming. (temps. in the low 60's). I've sailed these waters for years and it is as good as everyone says. May find charter boats out of Kingston, Ontario.

[rob67]

Hi
My home base is the Bay of Quinte and spend most of my time boating in the Thousand islands.

I can't answer the sailing questions as I am a power boater and I am just starting to take sailing lessons.

I can answer some of your other questions

Immigration/customs
When you get to port you just have to phone in to customs ,they have a posted red phone, No big deal

Port Facilities
Lots of ports in the thousand Islands for overnighting here's a few links
Pat's Boating in Canada: 1000 Islands Boating
Parks Canada - Thousand Islands National Park of Canada - Missing the boat?

mosquitos/blackflies
We moved from northern Ontario to get away from bugs , so I will say no you may get tagged by a few but nothing like up north.

Kingston to St. Catherines
can not answer, lots of sailing areas in eastern lake Ontario/ thousand islands
I will recommend that you stay out of Bay of Quinte with a 40+ ft sailboat, We have lots of weeds and shallow waters which make for bad sailing,
I do not understand why people would even recommend that you cut through Bay of Quinte to Murray canal then out to lake Ontario.
Average boat size for Bay of Quinte 30-32ft shoal draft .

Canadian Entry/ charter companies
From Toronto , my recommendation if chartering out of Kingston, is either drive from airport 2-2.5 hrs 259 kms(cheapest way) or get local flight into Kingston ( around 600-700 cad per person round trip)

other options Toronto - Ottawa then drive or fly to Kingston ( Ottawa to Kingston same drive time as Toronto to Kingston)

Weather
June weather average 20 c for high , lows 15 c, water still to cold for me to swim

I hope this helps , if you need more info on the area let me know
Rob

[Julian55]

For German passport holders, to enter the U.S. By boat or car you may need an entry visas. You are taking chances if you think you can just call in at a U.S. Border crossing by boat without an entry visas. My wife is German, I live in Canada.


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[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Julian55

For German passport holders, to enter the U.S. By boat or car you may need an entry visas. You are taking chances if you think you can just call in at a U.S. Border crossing by boat without an entry visas. My wife is German, I live in Canada.

That's what I was thinking. Not a big deal for Canadian/US citizens, but a US or Canadian flagged boat, with an Aussie and a German citizen on board ... certainly will be more complicated. I'd talk to the charter company. Surely they've had lots of experience dealing with this.

Originally Posted by rob67

Hi
My home base is the Bay of Quinte and spend most of my time boating in the Thousand islands.

Kingston to St. Catherines
can not answer, lots of sailing areas in eastern lake Ontario/ thousand islands
I will recommend that you stay out of Bay of Quinte with a 40+ ft sailboat, We have lots of weeds and shallow waters which make for bad sailing,
I do not understand why people would even recommend that you cut through Bay of Quinte to Murray canal then out to lake Ontario.
Average boat size for Bay of Quinte 30-32ft shoal draft .

I just sailed our 37-foot, 6-foot draft, down to Belleville from Lake Superior last season. It is pretty shallow just about everywhere in the Bay of Quinte. I was utterly amazed at how thick the weeds were If we strayed off the main route we quickly started dragging a forest, although this was in September.

Rob, are the weeds less of a problem early in the season? I plan to do some gunkholing in the area this season. In fact, we might be out there in early June. Maybe we'll see you AussieSailor.

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by rob67

Hi
My home base is the Bay of Quinte and spend most of my time boating in the Thousand islands.

I can't answer the sailing questions as I am a power boater and I am just starting to take sailing lessons.

I can answer some of your other questions

Immigration/customs
When you get to port you just have to phone in to customs ,they have a posted red phone, No big deal

Port Facilities
Lots of ports in the thousand Islands for overnighting here's a few links
Pat's Boating in Canada: 1000 Islands Boating
Parks Canada - Thousand Islands National Park of Canada - Missing the boat?

mosquitos/blackflies
We moved from northern Ontario to get away from bugs , so I will say no you may get tagged by a few but nothing like up north.

Kingston to St. Catherines
can not answer, lots of sailing areas in eastern lake Ontario/ thousand islands
I will recommend that you stay out of Bay of Quinte with a 40+ ft sailboat, We have lots of weeds and shallow waters which make for bad sailing,
I do not understand why people would even recommend that you cut through Bay of Quinte to Murray canal then out to lake Ontario.
Average boat size for Bay of Quinte 30-32ft shoal draft .

Canadian Entry/ charter companies
From Toronto , my recommendation if chartering out of Kingston, is either drive from airport 2-2.5 hrs 259 kms(cheapest way) or get local flight into Kingston ( around 600-700 cad per person round trip)

other options Toronto - Ottawa then drive or fly to Kingston ( Ottawa to Kingston same drive time as Toronto to Kingston)

Weather
June weather average 20 c for high , lows 15 c, water still to cold for me to swim

I hope this helps , if you need more info on the area let me know
Rob

Rob,
I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the Bay of Quinte myself. I am an ex CCG Navigator and was based on various buoy tenders out of Prescott (thousand islands) for many years. When you place the buoys you get a pretty good feel for water depths.

During Spring and fall I have provided ice breaking services into the cement plant in picton- 13' draft as well as done water sampling through out the Bay of Quinte on a 140' research ship- 8' draft, with very exposed drives.

I've done the Murray on a 60' patrol cat- although that was a shallow draft vessel, the canal advertises 8+ ft.

You make a good point, the OP should select a shallow draft vessel, but that is true of Georgian Bay and the Thousand Islands too. The OP sounds like a practiced navigator to me, so I was making the suggestion on the assumption that he would make his own decisions on acceptable under keel clearance.

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[svHannabel]

I second all of the recommendations for a charter out of Gore Bay in the North Channel or Traverse City on NE Lake Michigan. Yes, water temps will be cold but the scenery/towns/islands/sailing don't care about that, so neither should you (unless you insist on swimming).

North Channel = Nearly unlimited islands and anchorages to explore, with a few small towns mixed in for groceries and grub. When we were there from June-August in 2010 we didn't share an anchorage with another cruising boat until July 1. You'll have as much solitude and wilderness as you care to experience. Gore Bay is an excellent central location and I've heard CYC does a nice job, though I have not personally used their service.

TC/NE Lake Michigan = Some islands (Manitous, Beaver, High, Garden, St. Helena, Mac, Washington, etc. all reachable), very nice ports (TC, Petoskey, Harbor Springs, Charlevoix, Suttons Bay, etc.), a bit warmer (maybe) and the potential for a quick lake crossing to the tip of Wisconsin's Door County to Washington Island and/or MI's Fayette/Snail Shell Harbor in the UP.

You can't go wrong with either choice, but they are certainly different experiences.

[rob67]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

Rob,
I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the Bay of Quinte myself. I am an ex CCG Navigator and was based on various buoy tenders out of Prescott (thousand islands) for many years. When you place the buoys you get a pretty good feel for water depths.

During Spring and fall I have provided ice breaking services into the cement plant in picton- 13' draft as well as done water sampling through out the Bay of Quinte on a 140' research ship- 8' draft, with very exposed drives.

I've done the Murray on a 60' patrol cat- although that was a shallow draft vessel, the canal advertises 8+ ft.

You make a good point, the OP should select a shallow draft vessel, but that is true of Georgian Bay and the Thousand Islands too. The OP sounds like a practiced navigator to me, so I was making the suggestion on the assumption that he would make his own decisions on acceptable under keel clearance.

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Hi familyvan
My comment was not directed at you personally and if you took that way I apologize.
I just don't understand why a sail boater would want to sacrifice sailing on Lake Ontario to motor sail through the Bay of Quinte,
Other than for Tuesday and Wednesday night racing everyone motor sails .
3 yrs ago the Bay was so low that by August most sail boats couldn't get out of their slips, if you had a full keel shoal draft like a Bayfield you were ok.
A few had Hunters with wing and bulb keels which helped with draft but the weeds wrapped around the wings and bulbs which rendered the boat useless until you went down to untangle

Since then the water level has gone back up but so have the weeds. I do not know the species but they will grow up to 14' high and with strong fibrous stocks that wrap around everything nasty

I really hate bashing my boating area but I have to be honest , We are giving it one more year and if the weeds get worse I will move my boat to Kingston and drive the hour to avoid the weed damage.

This is just my observations of the Bay of Quinte ,
I should also add that to a local we classify Bay of Quinte as from Carrying Place (murray canal) to the narrows east of Belleville .
Rob

[FamilyVan]

I think they're good observations. To somebody who hasn't done the Quinte/Murray trip, the 10 or 15 miles of motoring I think would be a worthwhile trade off. I know I've enjoyed motoring the Murray. I think if the OP is goiing to cruise any of the above listed areas he's going to be doing some motoring. It's the nature of the lakes.

My thoughts on the Murray were to provide the OP with a circuit trip rather than a linear back and forth trip to the West end of the lake. That's why I suggested motoring east-west, as they may find themselves motoring against the prevailing westerlies any ways. I'm sure you'd agree motoring in the Bay Of Quinte would be more pleasant then motoring into 5 or 6' Lake Ontario chop. I know I would and have taken that route more than once.

I would only suggest the Murray if they were in fact going to NOL. If staying in eastern lake Ontario- it doesn't really take them where they want to go.

Don't be so hard on your home cruising grounds, they're beautiful and well worth a detour to explore. I've traveled all 5 great lakes- all extensively except Michigan (which I've done the length of).
Eastern Lake Ontario is easily one of my favourites, along with the North Channel and the Keewena Peninsula (not in June though!).

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[FamilyVan]

Oh, for reference for the OP. Last April 28th I crossed Lake Ontario, and several times heard the swish of ice on my glass hull and altered twice for larger flows. Niagara Falls had ice and snow at the base until about the third or fourth week of June (like thick ice- 10' thick).

That's why I'm promoting the lower lakes, because if you head well north onto the much larger colder lakes, you just dont know what you're going to be in for weather wise.

Open water on Superior can be toques and Mustang jackets mid afternoon in August. However, the rugged beauty of the Northern Lakes is pretty awe inspiring if you don't mind the cold.

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[Julie Mor]

Having logged several thousand miles, from Chicago to Mackinac Island and into the North Channel and the Benjamin Islands, I'd say any trip north in the Great Lakes that ends in June will require some very heavy clothing. It's COLD at that time.

The farthest south you can go in the Great Lakes is in Lake Michigan. Even in June it can be cold there, especially when the winds blow from the north.

We pulled into Milwaukee in early July and the air temperature was 95. The water temperature that day was 48. It was fun watching beachgoers jump into the water to cool down then pop out just as fast.

Another time, in late June, we left Washington Island, WI heading for Harbor Springs, MI. We were in the middle of the lake in a very thick fog on flat calm waters. The temp was onboard 52. My hair was soaked with the fog. A radio broadcast from the shore said it was a sweltering 93.

On another trip, we left Mackinac Island around 10PM. It was late July. I was at the helm most of the night, wrapped in a ski parka and sleeping blanket. But by morning we were inside Green Bay and by 10AM we were down to our bathing suits with Pina Coladas in our hands, blistering south down the bay.

Then there was the time we had a wonderful sail to Mackinac and turned east into the North Channel, the entire way the weather was beautiful. This was late July. We left the Benjamins and the whole way back to Chicago was cold, wet and miserable. One leg had us in 12+' seas, but at least it was sunny that day.

There's so much to enjoy in the Great Lakes but if I had to do two weeks and be done by the end of June, I'd hit the southern shores of Michigan. You won't see the natural beauty you do up north but there are lots of harbors to poke into and lots of things to see.

But if you want to see a gazillion stars at night and some of the most beautiful scenery you'll ever see, you have to be north. It is simply breathtaking. Just bring warm clothes. And if you don't need them,