Draft for the Great Lakes

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Saaabb

Hi

I am ordering a new sailboat to sail the Great Lakes Erie/Huron/Superior. The builder propose a shoal draft 5'7" instead of the STD draft at 7'1", of course It is better for him.

Any opinion about what is best to sail those lakes?

I'm in Kingston, on Lake Ontario, near the 1000 islands. My last boat had a 5 foot draft and there were places I like that I could not go, and I did my share of bumping on the bottom. A couple of my previous boats needed 4 feet draft, and it made a big difference. In the islands the water is thin. With 7 foot draft you will be limited to pretty much just the main channel. Also, in sailing around the lake, many of the smaller ports and marinas have less than 6 feet.

Given the choice, definitely get the shallow draft. You won't regret it. Better yet, get a swing keel! Exploring off the beaten path is where all the fun is located.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by svseachange

I've sailed all three lakes. Make sure you get to lake Superior. It's the best by a long shot.

Last time I checked, there are 5 great lakes.
...and they truly are inland seas.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

Since you know where you want to cruise, why not get some charts and figure out what is going to be ruled out by that extra 1.5 foot (46 cm) of keel.

Here you go, you can borrow this chart:

Navionics Webapp

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Here you go, you can borrow this chart:

Navionics Webapp

Nice resource . Fun that you’ve got the link going directly to Beaurivage anchorage. I spent many weeks swinging from the hook there last season, and will likely spend more time this year.

Another good source for online (free) charts is Waterway Guide Explorer

[ctl411]

You should also check on slips in the area. Deep slips may have a waiting list and or a premium price.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Nice resource . Fun that you’ve got the link going directly to Beaurivage anchorage. I spent many weeks swinging from the hook there last season, and will likely spend more time this year.

Another good source for online (free) charts is Waterway Guide Explorer

Oh...nice link...thanks!

Getting slightly off topic...no accident I linked to that anchorage. When my kids were young, I learned pretty quick that they did not care WHERE we were (with the boat) so long as there was good swimming, no waves, and lots of treats. Also, if I was happy, so were they. So rather than going far, we just went to that same anchorage almost every trip (or as part of every trip at least). To them it became familiar, like their cottage. For me, there was always space to drop the hook, so I never had to worry about getting a dock on one of the islands. We explored by avon redcrest, and had many great adventures. The swimming was good, and when we got a bigger dinghy with an outboard, there was endless exploring to be done...from Gan to Thwartway...beaches and islands. In short, a nice place to anchor. And always a show...boats coming and going, and everyone happy to be there. I wonder if the Caribbean is like that?

Back to the OPs question though...with 4 foot draft I would tuck up close to island 6, and be well protected. The deeper draft boats were much more limited to the lee end of the anchorage, and exposed to the SW wind that could funnel off the 40 acres when it blew hard. With 5 foot draft I did not dare enter the cove at Milton Island, or Aubrey. I think that area really shows that an extra 1.5 feet of extra depth really does make a difference.

The other spot I considered showing was main duck island. Again, with 4 foot draft I could get quite close to shore, snug and protected. But with 5 foot, and low water levels, I was stuck quite far out from shore, and took some pretty big wind last time I was there. Although there was no problem, had I been closer to shore, I might have slept better.

My daughter sails a tall ship with 9 foot draft and they can go just about no place off the main channel. Not even to the excellent and popular anchorage off Simcoe Island, near Kingston.

But, reading the posts of this thread, I think there pretty good agreement that shallow draft opens up many more possibilities.

[rognvald]

I have never owned a boat with draft greater than 4 feet. I have sailed extensively throughout the Great Lakes, South Florida, and the Caribbean. There is more induced leeway with a shallow draft but its benefits to a cruising sailor far outweigh its disadvantages. Shoal draft. Good luck and safe sailing.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by rognvald

I have never owned a boat with draft greater than 4 feet. I have sailed extensively throughout the Great Lakes, South Florida, and the Caribbean. There is more induced leeway with a shallow draft but its benefits to a cruising sailor far outweigh its disadvantages. Shoal draft. Good luck and safe sailing.

I'm a big fan of waiting for a favorable wind, unrolling the jib, and setting the autohelm. Sure, we all have to beat to windward once in a while, but on a reach the shallow draft will make very little difference. I'm thinking of a Pearson 35 with a swing keel for my next boat.

[Joli]

I haven't posted here in about forever.

If you want to go upwind buy draft. We draw 9' on Lake Erie and go most places we want.

What boat are you buying?

[siamese]

Forty years sailing primarily Lake Michigan.

Given the choice, I would opt for the 5' 7". Would there be some loss of performance compared to the deeper keel? Sure. I'm more concerned with going where I want than having that last bit of performance. The purist in me leans toward the deep keel, but my experience with negotiating the channels and inland lakes that connect with the Great Lakes pushes the realist in me to the shorter keel.

When lake levels were down three years ago, one of my favorite ports was behind on their dredging, and there was an advisory out to avoid the area with a draft greater than six feet, I was just fine with my wing keel Catalina 28 at a mere 3' 9", but my dock neighbor with a Catalina 42 and a draft of about 6 and a half feet lost his rudder. Yup, same guy that criticized my boat for it's wing keel earlier in the season. Karma, dude. Gentleman that I am, I didn't remind him of his criticism. But I digress.

That said, either keel is still viable, at least in my normal sailing grounds. All depends on how big of a purist you are. The purist in me takes a back seat to the cruiser/vagabond in me.

[30West]

A lot of Great Lakes ports have lost or reduced federal money for dredging, and local boaters are having trouble as sand bars build at river mouths. The water also varies in depth, I've seen it three feet higher and lower than today. Lake Michigan is about a foot lower right now than when my boat was pulled out last fall.

I draw 41", and on a 500-mile run from Georgian Bay I stopped in several harbors that weren't much deeper than that. We were running in pretty big waves, so I sometimes had to duck into harbors I hadn't planned on.

I used to see shoal-draft keels with retractable keel extensions, would your builder entertain something like that? Best of both worlds I would think. I grew up teaching and crewing sailboats of all shapes and sizes, my best sailing was probably with a swing keel in a shallow lake.

[Mike OReilly]

Further to all this, I draw 6’. There are definitely areas, anchorages and marinas which I cannot get into, even in ‘normal’ water years (whatever that means these days).

In the North Channel there are marinas and anchorages on the north shore which are off limits. It’s been a while since I’ve travelled Georgian Bay, but memory tells me there are some where my draft would be a problem.

When we sailed down from Thunder Bay a few years ago we encountered no depth issues until we hit the Lake St. Clair area. From there, through Lake Erie (Canadian side) we had to be quite cognisant of marina and anchorage water depths. Some were simply off limits (or were too iffy for my comfort).

[SuW]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

This is a constant debate, and depends on what you want to do with that boat ...For my part, my 6 foot draft hasn't stopped me from going to places that I really wanted to get to, and perhaps it has meant a little longer dinghy ride to get to a deserted beach. At least you won't have to worry about tides!
...

Not so much in the way of tides, but certainly the seiche can be a pain. Wind-driven lake levels can change dramatically especially late in the season. We went from comfortably at anchor to aground in a pile of logs in 6 hours in November. That was with less than 4' draft (we were a bit cavalier in positioning the boat, I admit).

We have boats stored in our local marina that have 7' draft and they always have to scoot in before the water levels are dropped. Sometimes they have to wait a week for levels to change.

Personally I'd go with shoal draft, but as someone else says, it depends on what you want to do with the boat. Commercial traffic copes with 20 feet and more :-)

[Mirage35]

Thanks for all of the comments; this is very interesting to me as I'm currently shopping for a boat for just these areas. Ideas for future cruising include the eastern side of Georgian Bay and the North Channel, so draft is a concern.

And it recalls one experience on Lake St. Clair on a boat with 6.5 foot draft: circumstances were such that anchoring outside of the channel was the prudent thing to do, but with that draft it wasn't clear if we would be able to get back without a tow.

[SuW]

Originally Posted by AnglaisInHull

Thanks for all of the comments; this is very interesting to me as I'm currently shopping for a boat for just these areas. Ideas for future cruising include the eastern side of Georgian Bay and the North Channel, so draft is a concern.

And it recalls one experience on Lake St. Clair on a boat with 6.5 foot draft: circumstances were such that anchoring outside of the channel was the prudent thing to do, but with that draft it wasn't clear if we would be able to get back without a tow.

Haha...that is familiar: in an isolated part of North Carolina (Pungo River, iirc) the anchor windlass saved the day by hauling us out of the mud (although since it's a manual there was a fair amount of cursing!)

What boats are you considering? There seems to be a fair amount of choice these days in this area.