American invasion of Canada rehearsal

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by Larry Florida

Never heard that view point. Career politicians do not seem to be a

n overall positive in the USA.

I was referring to Obama not being able to seek an easily winnable 3rd term.

Heard Mitch McConnell axed the term limit idea just today.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Mike, I'm happy it works for you, but it hasn't for the Canadians I've met traveling in the USA. Nevertheless, be prepared for Hollywood-types seeking "sanctuary" in your country.

And I hope we welcome them in . We’ve done it many times in our two nations’ pasts.

We likely travel in different circles Mark. In the seven months of travel in the US last winter I met many Americans who were interested in Canadian healthcare. Most were curious about costs, service levels, and how it was all paid for. None that I got to know were happy with the American system. Most were envious of our system.

Interestingly, I was camping so meeting fellow campers. My self-selected crowd were largely politically and socially copacetic with my views (IOW, folks who are now quite upset with your incoming president ). I did finally find a few right-leaning folks in Texas, but they seemed to be far outnumbered by us lefties. Made me wonder whether ‘camping’ is largely a lefty activity in the USA .

Here’s a useful study. It’s a bit dated now (1990 I think), but it is a comparison of satisfaction levels of healthcare systems in 10 developed countries.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/con...2/185.full.pdf

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Interestingly, I was camping so meeting fellow campers. My self-selected crowd were largely politically and socially copacetic with my views (IOW, folks who are now quite upset with your incoming president ). I did finally find a few right-leaning folks in Texas, but they seemed to be far outnumbered by us lefties. Made me wonder whether ‘camping’ is largely a lefty activity in the USA .

Camping in "camp sites", maybe. I think you will find the "righties" are more into camping a bit rougher (and where they can fire their guns )

[brownoarsman]

Ha-ha, was going to say the same thing, Stu. Camping you'll meet a lot of lefties, hunting - not so much

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by StuM

Camping in "camp sites", maybe. I think you will find the "righties" are more into camping a bit rougher (and where they can fire their guns )

Guns are hard to tote in a backpack. "Roughing it" is relative.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by StuM

Camping in "camp sites", maybe. I think you will find the "righties" are more into camping a bit rougher (and where they can fire their guns )

It’s very true I spent most of my time in car camps, which is not really camping. It’s why I used the ‘single quotes’ around ‘camping.’ But you may be right about American right-leaning folks going to places where guns can be fired.

In Canada, hunting is not nearly as political … at least not around the gun thing. People of all political persuasions hunt. Here we get riled up about spring bear hunts, not whether you’re using a gun. Most real hunters view guns as tools, not a political statement.

BTW, I’ve lived nearly two decades north of Lake Superior in Northern Ontario. I’ve been a part of many hunting ‘camps’, and I’ve also actually camped all over the region. In my experience, the roughest thing about most hunting camps is the odour from all the beans and beer that get consumed .

[Brob2]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

They were rich and felt entitled to have the procedure asap.

That's crap. My father and brother have both gone to New York or Boston multiple times for progressive diseases because they were/are scared they were dying and wanted to get as much expertise as possible around potential treatments. One died young, the other one will.

They have/had money, and they are/were grateful for that. Humility and entitlement are not wealth specific. Please try not to stereotype so much.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

.....In Canada we have the freedom not to worry about the cost of healthcare. The tradeoff is that some people have to wait longer than they think is reasonable for non-urgent care. On rare occasions they are right, but few Canadians (based on national polls) would trade US kind of healthcare freedom for ours.

It's not free!

True cost of health care to average family is $11K per year: report | CTV News

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by DotDun

It's not free!

True cost of health care to average family is $11K per year: report | CTV News

Well that report like many reports is not based on a per capita cost, it has been tweaked for different incomes and therefore can not be used as a direct comparison. If you look at the per capita costs by nation you will find that the USA is close to double that of most nations, Canada being in the middle at approx $4400 per capita and the USA at $9500 per capita. Looking at the world as a whole the USA has the most expensive medical costs in the world by a very large margin, almost double.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Well that report like many reports is not based on a per capita cost, it has been tweaked for different incomes and therefore can not be used as a direct comparison. If you look at the per capita costs by nation you will find that the USA is close to double that of most nations, Canada being in the middle at approx $4400 per capita and the USA at $9500 per capita. Looking at the world as a whole the USA has the most expensive medical costs in the world by a very large margin, almost double.

Not arguing, simply responding to the comment that Canadians "don't worry about healthcare costs". Just because it's labeled 'taxes', to me, doesn't allow one to not pay attention to costs.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Not arguing, simply responding to the comment that Canadians "don't worry about healthcare costs". Just because it's labeled 'taxes', to me, doesn't allow one to not pay attention to costs.

I couldn't agree more, your spot on.

[TrentePieds]

An enormous amount of attention is paid to costs in this country. We elect by democratic process in each province individuals who are charged with the specific responsibility of paying attention to costs. They are colloquially known as "ministers of health", though their precise titles vary slightly from province to province. They are supported by a rather vast, and on the whole enormously competent, bureaucracy that ensures that "medicare premiums" (to use a foreign phrase) are collected from all individuals - including foreign nationals - who have a tax liability in this country,

The collection of "premiums", subsumed in general taxes, is handled by the Federal Government that then distributes the proceeds to the provinces who disburse the funds under the governance of their own Ministers of Health according to the needs of the population of their provinces.

Additional, dedicated premiums may be collected by provinces, as is the case here under the British Columbia Medical Plan. Premiums are progressive and determined on the basis of taxable income. "Membership" in the plan is compulsory and premiums are "subsidized' for "low income earners". In effect the premiums are entirely forgiven for individuals of low economic status.

Having lived under several "welfare" regimes, including the UK's "National Health", and Denmark's "womb to tomb" system, I have concluded that there simply isn't a better, fairer system than Canada's, though I suspect that qua "welfare system" that of Cuba may by better yet.

In considering "illuminating" data in matters such as these, we should prolly "consider the source". To whom might we think that the Fraser Institute owes its allegiance? Or the Canadian Tax Payers' Federation? Or even CTV?

Almost the last words my father said to me as he lay on his deathbed in Denmark after a long decline during which he was supported unstintingly by "free" housekeeping assistance, subsidized meals from the local hospital's kitchen delivered to his door, and God knows what amount of actual medical attention were: "All my life I bitched and complained about the taxes the bastards made me pay. Now I'm glad they made me do it!"

The measure of a nations greatness is the decency and compassion with which it looks after its people - ALL its people. Health care is IMO a public utility and should be "free". Just as roads are.

TrentePieds

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by DotDun

It's not free!

True cost of health care to average family is $11K per year: report | CTV News

DD, I didn’t say, and have never said, our healthcare is free. I said Canadian citizens have the freedom not to worry about these costs. It certainly costs our society a lot of money, but we pay for it through taxes b/c healthcare is seen as a common good, much like roads, bridges, food inspections, border control, police and military (etc…).

As Robert says, the US’s health system spends more — far more — per-capita than anyone else in the world, yet it achieves mediocre outcomes for its population (ex: Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System).

There’s no doubt the best of the best healthcare services can be found in the US, as long as you can afford it. This is why wealthy people from all over the world go there when they can. Most people can’t.

Here’s a breakdown using OECD (2010) data:

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

The measure of a nations greatness is the decency and compassion with which it looks after its people - ALL its people. Health care is IMO a public utility and should be "free". Just as roads are.

TrentePieds

Thank you for that. And to those who are gonna jump in ith two feet and say "taxes aren't free, roads aren't free..." that's what taxes are for: the COMMON good, like common decency.

[Bill Seal]

Before the US can get health costs under control, we will have to rein in the predatory, ambulance chasing lawyers.