American invasion of Canada rehearsal

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by beiland

Something I have yet to get a proper answer to. Why can't Canada build a refinery up there to at least turn the tar sands oil into a lighter weight product that would not be so devastating if it were to spill??

My cousin from the smarter side of the family just retired from a senior VP position at one of the bigger Calgary-based oil companies. I asked him that question a couple years back. His answer was that there is (or at least was at the time) excess refinery capacity in North America, so it made economic sense to pipe it down to the Gulf as opposed to refining in Canada.

[beiland]

Originally Posted by beiland

....
And you do realize that a tar sands oil spill is a WHOLE LOT more difficult to clean up,...if ever

When This Oil Spills, It's 'A Whole New Monster

...some selected excerpts...
This is not conventional crude. It is so thick, sticky and full of sand that companies have to shoot steam deep underground to liquefy it or scrape it out of sprawling surface mines

TransCanada told Daniel in writing that questions about spills were hypothetical because their pipeline would be designed not to spill. But in a document for the State Department, TransCanada predicted two spills every 10 years over the entire length of its Keystone XL pipeline, from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico. Some scientists argue that the company underestimates that risk. Another pipeline it put into service two years ago has had 14 spills in the United States, although most were small, according to TransCanada.

But pipeline spills are inevitable; hundreds of spills happen each year in the U.S.

In July 2010, a pipeline carrying tar sands oil burst in Marshall, Mich., inundating 40 miles of the Kalamazoo River with heavy crude.
Two years and $800 million later, the cleanup is still going on. The cost eclipses every other onshore oil cleanup in U.S. history.

Hamilton says this tar sands oil sank to the river bottom because it's heavy — heavier than almost anything that's considered oil.
"It's not quite solid, and it's not quite liquid," he says. "You could pick it up and shape it into a ball practically. Tarry is another way to think about it."
Tar sands oil has to be diluted to make it liquid enough to flow through a pipeline. But once it's back out in the environment, the chemicals that liquefied it evaporate. That leaves the heavy stuff behind.

[beiland]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

My cousin from the smarter side of the family just retired from a senior VP position at one of the bigger Calgary-based oil companies. I asked him that question a couple years back. His answer was that there is (or at least was at the time) excess refinery capacity in North America, so it made economic sense to pipe it down to the Gulf as opposed to refining in Canada.

So economic sense to pipe it down into the US should NOT EVEN be considered !!!

Partial refine it up there in place BEFORE transporting it,...by any means of transportation.

[TrentePieds]

@ #258

Tell that to the Ignoramus-in-Chief. :-0)!

[chris mac]

The problem is everyone complains when price of fuel goes up for any reason. Less complain about the degree of damage from a possible leak or spill.
Building multi million dollar refineries just to have others sit empty won't happen.
We aren't getting away from fossil fuels for a long time yet. Everything is made from plastic now.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

@ #258

Tell that to the Ignoramus-in-Chief. :-0)!

What do you expect Trudeau to do?

[Steamerlanes]

Every summer when vacation season begins, gas prices rise due to refineries not capable of demands. Yet they have excess unused capabilities to refine canadian oil? I believe little to nothing of what is reported, stated, in regards to money, economy, or world matters. I believe only what I see. Why on a sailboat and buy only the bare necessities.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

My cousin from the smarter side of the family just retired from a senior VP position at one of the bigger Calgary-based oil companies. I asked him that question a couple years back. His answer was that there is (or at least was at the time) excess refinery capacity in North America, so it made economic sense to pipe it down to the Gulf as opposed to refining in Canada.

I believe this. It makes no environmental sense, national sense, or sense in terms of jobs or industrial development for Canada, but I’m sure it maximizes profits for the oil companies — IOW, it makes “economic sense” which, as usual, is non-sense .

[TrentePieds]

@ # 261

I expect young Justin to pull his forelock and say "Yes, Sir!" and "No, Sir!" when "Washington" speaks. I expect fair Justin to jump when "Washington" tells him to jump, and to ask permission to come down again before he does so :-)!

Let's never confuse expectations with hopes!

Meanwhile, I think I'll just go sailing :-)

TP

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Steamerlanes

Every summer when vacation season begins, gas prices rise due to refineries not capable of demands. Yet they have excess unused capabilities to refine canadian oil? I believe little to nothing of what is reported, stated, in regards to money, economy, or world matters. I believe only what I see. Why on a sailboat and buy only the bare necessities.

It may not be not having enough capacity, it may be more complex than that, I'm not so sure raising price a few cents on the gallon actually reduces the amount of fuel people purchase, but I'd bet it does wonders for profits, having your highest price right at the time of your max sales

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It may not be not having enough capacity, it may be more complex than that, I'm not so sure raising price a few cents on the gallon actually reduces the amount of fuel people purchase, but I'd bet it does wonders for profits, having your highest price right at the time of your max sales

I wonder who realizes more profit per gallon; those who make it or those who tax it?

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by sailpower

I wonder who realizes more profit per gallon; those who make it or those who tax it?

[TrentePieds]

Is there not a little matter of "elasticity of demand" - in this case inelasticity? Fortunately for us, "them wot tax it" can't react swiftly enough to employ that concept in the manner the oil companies do, or we'd all be in REAL trouble.

It isn't quite a case of "the seven sisters" anymore, but the industry surely DOES act oligopolistically however many corporations are in cahoots. And any government that knows which side of its bread is buttered will act vis-a-vis the oil industry as I expect Justin Trudeau to act vis-a-vis Washington.

As a friend of a friend of mine said: "Power comes out of the end of a gun". That is true even when "gun" is a metaphor for disruption of the the energy market.

Venceremos :-)!

TP

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Is there not a little matter of "elasticity of demand" - in this case inelasticity? Fortunately for us, "them wot tax it" can't react swiftly enough to employ that concept in the manner the oil companies do, or we'd all be in REAL trouble.

It isn't quite a case of "the seven sisters" anymore, but the industry surely DOES act oligopolistically however many corporations are in cahoots. And any government that knows which side of its bread is buttered will act vis-a-vis the oil industry as I expect Justin Trudeau to act vis-a-vis Washington.

As a friend of a friend of mine said: "Power comes out of the end of a gun". That is true even when "gun" is a metaphor for disruption of the the energy market.

Venceremos :-)!

TP

Sure, the taxes are fixed but how do they compare to average profit?

IOW, Are the evil profits earned by the greedy corporations generally more, less or similar to the very fair and reasonable taxes collected by caring government entities?

[TrentePieds]

@ #269:

This is getting interesting :-) However, we mustn't aggravate "the authorities" in our little "special purpose" internet world. They have rules they are honour-bound to invoke, so PM me if you want to continue the discussion.

Cheers

TP