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Old 28-02-2021, 18:20   #1
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YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

I have 2 pieces of my boat that require epoxy that I can’t do myself for obvious reasons.

1) The composite chainplates

2) A 12” wide bulkhead and attachment point for the bow tube beam in each hull


You or your friend, acquaintance or coworker:

*Absolutely a pro at laminating. These chain plates are many, many layers of uni and epoxy that go wet on wet all day long. Should know how to manage epoxy as it kicks off to get lots done without sanding in between. It’s the chainplates, so wet on wet is the way to go anyway.

*Ok to be out here on the project in south Florida for a week or 2, in the hotel at the marina.

*Open minded. I have some special techniques that must be followed to ensure I live to pay you. Ha ha. I need the final layer over the epoxy to be vinylester, which will encapsulate the evil resin and allow me to re-enter the boat. Otherwise, it takes close to 6 months for me to be able to re-enter.

The boat

It’s actually a pretty exciting boat to work on. Very high performance.


If you know of anyone with professional, neat, thorough and efficient laminating experience in epoxy, please let me know. Looking to hire in 4-6 weeks, so the rig can go on.

I will fly the right person in. But has to be a pro at this. Chain plates are one of the most important structures in the boat. The bow tube attachment points are right up there too.

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Old 01-03-2021, 00:13   #2
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

Covid details:

You’d have your own room at the hotel and privacy working. I’ll be far away since I can’t be near epoxy.
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Old 01-03-2021, 00:44   #3
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

Would do the same job using vinalester and double bias at least 10 laminations all out side edges overlapping the previous ,all the strength you will ever need done properly , don’t sweat it ⛵️⚓️
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Old 01-03-2021, 00:56   #4
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

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Originally Posted by Searles View Post
Would do the same job using vinalester and double bias at least 10 laminations all out side edges overlapping the previous ,all the strength you will ever need done properly , don’t sweat it ⛵️⚓️
Really???

What about the secondary bond to the cured epoxy hull?

I could trust that to vinylester?

I was not aware this was possible.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:22   #5
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

Why not contact Derek Kelsall I am reasonably sure he uses polyester for composite chain plates.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:28   #6
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupaia View Post
Why not contact Derek Kelsall I am reasonably sure he uses polyester for composite chain plates.
Right, but the secondary bond laminating them to the hull?

Can only be epoxy, right?
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:34   #7
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Right, but the secondary bond laminating them to the hull?

Can only be epoxy, right?
Derek has done a whole lot of work on secondary bonding and understands it well.
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:49   #8
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

Check Gougeon bro vinalester will take to West epoxie if well prepaid ,have done this with no failures to date ,some with lots of stress , your boat your choise ⛵️⚓️
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Old 01-03-2021, 05:25   #9
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

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Originally Posted by Searles View Post
Check Gougeon bro vinalester will take to West epoxie if well prepaid ,have done this with no failures to date ,some with lots of stress , your boat your choise ⛵️⚓️
I would absolutely LOVE to do this.

This is the rig though. The ultimate amount of stress. I have to be able to pick the boat up by the chainplates with a crane. Thatís the level of strength I need here. The rig I just bought and still have to pay many thousands to get properly integrated with the boat, so a failure would mean the end of my sailing life. It would be trawler life. LOL

I canít have any chance at all of a bond failure.

I need a lot more opinions.

This is a very surprising line of thinking for me because my learning says to use the same materials the boat is made out of for high stress areas.

Iím not arguing. Iím just petrified at the thought this could fail.

Iíve reached out to some people and will reach out to Kelsall. I need a lot more input from people who have done a lot of secondary bonding and maybe those who can guide me on changing the size of the bond area to compensate for it not being epoxy.

One thing Iíve noticed using epoxy alternatives is you can practically use grade school paste if you have a big enough bonding area.

I hope for a lot more input here (as well as some people to hire for epoxy). Iíll probably start a boat design (dot) net thread too. This is an extremely critical part of the boat. Need absolute certainty.
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Old 01-03-2021, 06:51   #10
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
One thing Iíve noticed using epoxy alternatives is you can practically use grade school paste if you have a big enough bonding area.


I was just going to mention that. If you can get data on the bond strength difference between epoxy and other options, that'll confirm whether you can add enough bonding surface to make up for the strength difference or if you have to use epoxy.
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:17   #11
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

Personally, I wouldn't attempt a polyester bond to epoxy, in this application, but:
ďPolyester Over EpoxyĒ ~ by Jeff Wright
ď... Polyester resin laminates achieve their highest strength when the bonds between layers of fiberglass are chemical or primary bonds as opposed to mechanical or secondary bonds ...
... Our test clearly demonstrates that polyester gelcoat will bond to a properly prepared WEST SYSTEM epoxy as well as to a cured polyester laminate. This test confirms that polyester gelcoats can be applied over cured WEST SYSTEM ô epoxy on repairs below the waterline ...Ē

https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php...er-over-epoxy/
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:04   #12
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

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Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
I was just going to mention that. If you can get data on the bond strength difference between epoxy and other options, that'll confirm whether you can add enough bonding surface to make up for the strength difference or if you have to use epoxy.
If there was ever anywhere that people should be screaming for me to talk to a designer, this is it. Ha ha. But yes. I do have the entire side of the hull. I could make the chain plate 6 feet long, by 4 feet wide. That wouldnít save me any weight though.

But youíre absolutely right mathematically. If I know the bond strength of Apoxsee, and I know the bond strength of vinylester, vinylester to epoxy, then I would just change the square area of the bond to match what is necessary.
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:06   #13
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Personally, I wouldn't attempt a polyester bond to epoxy, in this application, but:
ďPolyester Over EpoxyĒ ~ by Jeff Wright
ď... Polyester resin laminates achieve their highest strength when the bonds between layers of fiberglass are chemical or primary bonds as opposed to mechanical or secondary bonds ...
... Our test clearly demonstrates that polyester gelcoat will bond to a properly prepared WEST SYSTEM epoxy as well as to a cured polyester laminate. This test confirms that polyester gelcoats can be applied over cured WEST SYSTEM ô epoxy on repairs below the waterline ...Ē

https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php...er-over-epoxy/
And that is the tricky part. This application. Can I trust a vinylester bond to lift the entire boat up by? Because thatís the force a chain plate takes on a catamaran.

Still would prefer to hire someone good because of weight savings and certainty of the bond.
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:17   #14
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

Where in south florida?
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:04   #15
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Re: YOU! (Expert Epoxy Laminator) [South Florida]

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Where in south florida?
The other side. West Coast.
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