A Christmas gift for the man who has everything.

[BlackHeron]

Originally Posted by StuM

"Colin Archer Yawl" is a particular style of boat. The "yawl" is a misnomer. You will see a few advertised as "ketch rigged Colin Archer Yawl"

Here's a classic example:
For Sale - 43' Colin archer Gaff Yawl ketch wooden sailing yacht
...
"43′ Colin Archer Gaff Yawl

...
Gaff ketch rig on solid pine, keel-stepped masts. Pole mizzen mast, fidded topmast to the main."

.

The difference between a Yawl and a Ketch is fundamentally in the function of the mizzen in the sail plan. in a Ketch the mizzen is a functional driving sail, giving a substantial driving/forward force to the overall rig. In a Yawl the mizzen is much smaller and not intended to give the boat much forward drive -instead it is a balancing sail which is used more to steer the boat by moving the CE aft or forward depending on the need and the point of sail. The location of the rudder is immaterial to the function of either a ketch or a yawl.

The rule of thumb that the location of the mizzen mast forward or aft of the rudder post determines what it is comes mainly from the racing world as they tried to more easily define the difference between the ketch and yawl rigs in order to put each into separate racing categories. But the real difference between these two rigs is in the size of the mizzen and how the two sails are balanced with respect to each other.

Taking a yawl-rigged sailboat and moving the whole rudder aft to the transom doesn't make it suddenly into a ketch because in reality the function of the mizzen within the sail plan hasn't changed.

This isn't something that I have made up, this is pretty much right out of the mouths of naval architects like Robert Perry.

[BlackHeron]

Originally Posted by StuM

Sorry, but that's wrong. Mizzen size is irrelevant.

The fundamental difference between a yawl and a ketch is the location of the mizzen with relation to the rudder post. If the mizzen is behind the rudder post , it's a yawl. if the mizzen is forward of it, it's a ketch.

The difference between a Yawl and a Ketch is fundamentally in the function of the mizzen in the sail plan. in a Ketch the mizzen is a functional driving sail, giving a substantial driving/forward force to the overall rig. In a Yawl the mizzen is much smaller and not intended to give the boat much forward drive -instead it is a balancing sail which is used more to steer the boat by moving the CE aft or forward depending on the need and the point of sail. The location of the rudder is immaterial to the function of either a ketch or a yawl.

The rule of thumb that the location of the mizzen mast forward or aft of the rudder post determines what it is comes mainly from the racing world as they tried to more easily define the difference between the ketch and yawl rigs in order to put each into separate racing categories. But the real difference between these two rigs is in the size of the mizzen and how the two sails are balanced with respect to each other.

Taking a yawl-rigged sailboat and moving the whole rudder aft to the transom doesn't make it suddenly into a ketch because in reality the function of the mizzen within the sail plan hasn't changed.

This isn't something that I have made up, this is pretty much right out of the mouths of naval architects like Robert Perry.

[svHyLyte]

Maybe I'm mizzen sump'n but I think yawl are get'n a tad carried away with this debate, nah? It's a dang fine model whatever, nah?

[joel383]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

The difference between a Yawl and a Ketch...

BOOM.

[joel383]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Maybe I'm mizzen sump'n but I think yawl are get'n a tad carried away with this debate, nah? It's a dang fine model whatever, nah?

Exquisite sir.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

The difference between a Yawl and a Ketch is fundamentally in the function of the mizzen in the sail plan. in a Ketch the mizzen is a functional driving sail, giving a substantial driving/forward force to the overall rig. In a Yawl the mizzen is much smaller and not intended to give the boat much forward drive -instead it is a balancing sail which is used more to steer the boat by moving the CE aft or forward depending on the need and the point of sail. The location of the rudder is immaterial to the function of either a ketch or a yawl.

The rule of thumb that the location of the mizzen mast forward or aft of the rudder post determines what it is comes mainly from the racing world as they tried to more easily define the difference between the ketch and yawl rigs in order to put each into separate racing categories. But the real difference between these two rigs is in the size of the mizzen and how the two sails are balanced with respect to each other.

Taking a yawl-rigged sailboat and moving the whole rudder aft to the transom doesn't make it suddenly into a ketch because in reality the function of the mizzen within the sail plan hasn't changed.

This isn't something that I have made up, this is pretty much right out of the mouths of naval architects like Robert Perry.

Thank you, I stand corrected.