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Old 12-12-2018, 03:52   #91
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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It was a Draeger Dolphin with Gordon Smith's KISS modification on it. Didn't trust any rebreather after that. While I enjoyed the quiet, it was like waiting for the other shoe to drop. Not a good feeling.

Went back to my twin steel 120's (actually, Faber thin wall 95's pumped up to 3000psi), and either a steel 72, AL 80, or a 40 AL for deco.
Yeah, no surprise. I think Id want a buddy to dive with as well diving on one of those. Although I do have one mate who did some big dives on one, below the IP of the non compensated first stage feeding the kiss valve, so he ran semi closed on his Dil on the bottom.
Most modern units are much better, 8 hours duration is a nice comfort zone. After getting ussd to that, its OC which feels like waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Mike
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:49   #92
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

Too many, very, very good as in excellent divers who follow check list have just died while diving a RB, very often itís explained as a heart attack.
I was going to dive RBís, probably a Meg, but then began to study the accidents and decided against it.

Now of course I donít dive often enough, Iíd be unsafe on a RB, but the always having the perfect mix and nearly unlimited bottom time were tempting. Iíd have felt better if CO2 could be reliably measured
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:31   #93
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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Too many, very, very good as in excellent divers who follow check list have just died while diving a RB, very often it’s explained as a heart attack.
I was going to dive RB’s, probably a Meg, but then began to study the accidents and decided against it.

Now of course I don’t dive often enough, I’d be unsafe on a RB, but the always having the perfect mix and nearly unlimited bottom time were tempting. I’d have felt better if CO2 could be reliably measured
The biggest issue with the Dolphins (though my first one was a Ray) wasn't the gas mix, but that we had to physically pack the soda lime, and it never absorbed the CO2 evenly. Right after I quit, they came out with the veins, then the canisters, ....but by then, I just couldn't get that taste out of my mouth.

One thing I will say about the rebreather people I dived with was that they would continually separate from their 'buddy' (like a free-for-all), especially when they were on scooters. Yet, when onboard prior to the dive, they all hailed the mantra, "Any diver can abort a dive for any reason without resentment,"; if one aborted, their buddy did too. Never understood that they would stand by their buddy where it was safe, yet separate from them where the danger existed.

Maybe it's because only an OC diver can assist another OC diver AND someone on a CCR. OC divers seemed to stick together more. That could be a reason for the deaths....
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Old 12-12-2018, 13:41   #94
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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One thing I will say about the rebreather people I dived with was that they would continually separate from their 'buddy' (like a free-for-all), especially when they were on scooters. Yet, when onboard prior to the dive, they all hailed the mantra, "Any diver can abort a dive for any reason without resentment,"; if one aborted, their buddy did too. Never understood that they would stand by their buddy where it was safe, yet separate from them where the danger existed.

Maybe it's because only an OC diver can assist another OC diver AND someone on a CCR. OC divers seemed to stick together more. That could be a reason for the deaths....
Interesting. Photographers I know who went the rebreather route did so because it made them more self sufficient because no photographer wants to have to deal with a hovering buddy who they're not focused on anyway. That said, some have also died on rebreathers...probably heart attack, but no one really knows

Kinda off point from the OP's question though. I'd be shocked if anyone kept a rebreather on a cruising sloop. Much too much to deal with.
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Old 12-12-2018, 14:03   #95
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SCUBA diving success stories?

Diving a RB, you of course have to have bail out gas, which makes you an OC diver, once or if you bail out.
I was trained and dove with a 7í hose to give to someone else of course, however I canít really imagine an emergency that another diver could help me with, they are nice if your scooter does to get a tow out of the cave, beats swimming.
Most RBís require you to pack your canister, only a few like Dive Rite have cartridges, of course if you donít pack it right it can channel itís called and let CO2 build up, and then your unconscious. Some wear full face masks cause apparently you will regain consciousness, if you didnít drown in the mean time.
I remember one death that was caused from driving down a bumpy road with an already packed canister, apparently it opened up channels, like cracks sort of.
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Old 12-12-2018, 15:33   #96
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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Interesting. Photographers I know who went the rebreather route did so because it made them more self sufficient because no photographer wants to have to deal with a hovering buddy who they're not focused on anyway. That said, some have also died on rebreathers...probably heart attack, but no one really knows

Kinda off point from the OP's question though. I'd be shocked if anyone kept a rebreather on a cruising sloop. Much too much to deal with.
All due respect, gamayun, but that's not the reason we photogs went to rebreathers. I got into rebreathers because they don't scare the fish away like OC. I could come right up within inches of fish.

If you ever get the chance to dive one, the first thing you will notice is how quiet they are. The second thing you will notice is that OC divers sound like a herd of stampeding cattle.

I agree with you about not seeing many on cruisers.
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Old 12-12-2018, 16:16   #97
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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An accidental caustic cocktail from a fin to the mouth on a deep night dive was my last dive on a rebreather. It was ugly and scary. Never again. I'd rather carry the weight. While many of my tech buddies used a Buddy Inspiration or a KISS, (and I appreciate those who can use them) they respected my choice.

I will admit though, off-gassing on a rebreather was very easy.
You should take a drive down to Centralia Wa where real rebreathers are made. You might change your mind.
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Old 12-12-2018, 16:23   #98
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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Kinda off point from the OP's question though. I'd be shocked if anyone kept a rebreather on a cruising sloop. Much too much to deal with.
I am planning on taking my rebreather aboard. I am looking for a small O2 booster and I have a small compressor to fill my diluent tanks. My only hesitation is that although I have done plenty of solo diving, including trimix and deco BTW, I am reluctant to dive solo on a rebreather after a near miss a few years back where a CO2 hit prevented me from even being aware I was in trouble. My buddy literally saved my life that day.
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Old 12-12-2018, 19:15   #99
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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Not sure which tables you have, but the Navy/PADI tables show that a 35'/10m dive can be up to 139 minutes before a 'mandated' safety stop is even needed.



transmitterdan, while some cert companies have modified them, all tables are based on the old Navy dive tables. However, the original Navy tables state that the NDL on a 10m dive is 310 minutes.

That is not correct as I understand. PADI developed their own tables using dissolved gas measurements and Doppler bubble testing. The navy just threw some well built guys into the water and kept increasing bottom time until a few got bent.

There have been others who developed models of the human body using multiple tissue groups. None of these tables are based on the Navy tables. I donít think a single computer today uses Navy tables. There used to be one but it has long gone out of production. I have been diving since the Edge computer the size (and weight) of a brick.
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Old 12-12-2018, 19:43   #100
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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One thing I will say about the rebreather people I dived with was that they would continually separate from their 'buddy' (like a free-for-all), especially when they were on scooters. Yet, when onboard prior to the dive, they all hailed the mantra, "Any diver can abort a dive for any reason without resentment,"; if one aborted, their buddy did too. Never understood that they would stand by their buddy where it was safe, yet separate from them where the danger existed.

Maybe it's because only an OC diver can assist another OC diver AND someone on a CCR. OC divers seemed to stick together more. That could be a reason for the deaths....
I need to disagree with you on the above statement. If diving with OC divers, a rebreather diver definitely should be able to assist them with gas.

Sounds like you've been around some 'less than optimal' rebreather divers - I'd guess back in the early 2000s timeframe. Hopefully most folk you'd come across now are better than this.

Yes - I'm a proponent of diving solo, but it's planned rather than accidental. A typical plan might be to descend together, each do their own dive, then agreed actions if someone is not back at the shot line after the 30 or 40 minute bottom time. With this plan, everyone carries enough bailout to get themselves up, albeit using 100/100 gradient factors. If the plan needs shared bailout, then you stick together.
However all it takes is for someone to say they want to stick together - for whatever reason - and then you do. For instance I'd never separate from someone diving OC twins with a manifold with the inherent (small) risk of total gas loss. This is pretty simple stuff.

By and large we also stick to having bailout completely separate from the rebreather, so you can hand it off. Certainly if diving with folks on OC, this is required. I have handed gas off to other divers a few times, once when it was really needed. (I've also handed over 40 of O2 to a mate to get them to deco faster - he was decoing on 40% and I was bored and cold and wanted to get out of the water). I have also had another diver right next to me offering a bailout tank by the time I'd taken my second breath of OC on a dive where I had an issue with inspired water. I didn't need it, but the offer was appreciated as we were deepish.

Mike
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Old 12-12-2018, 20:08   #101
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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I am planning on taking my rebreather aboard. I am looking for a small O2 booster and I have a small compressor to fill my diluent tanks. My only hesitation is that although I have done plenty of solo diving, including trimix and deco BTW, I am reluctant to dive solo on a rebreather after a near miss a few years back where a CO2 hit prevented me from even being aware I was in trouble. My buddy literally saved my life that day.
We've never managed to work out how to make this work on a small boat. On the 75 ft trawler I've dived off a bit, we would have 6 to 10 Gs of gas, a compressor and a booster.
The logic we worked through to be able to have 2 divers on rebreathers onboard was;
1 G of premix 15/50
1 G of 02
Compressor to drive a booster (or a KISS booster with the manual drive - but that takes forever!)
Booster with whips etc.
2 rebreathers with 2 onboard tanks each
4 ali 40s for shared bailout.
2 ali 80s for O2 hang tanks / recompression.
Tubs of Sorb

Strap the Gs down horizontally in cradles on the floor alongside the mast base. Racks for the tanks etc.
All this just gets us set up to do maybe a weeks diving, one dive a day to 70m ish.

Or we could take a couple of twinsets and a compressor and dive air (shorter bottom times and maybe 50m depth). Add a couple of 80s of O2 for deco / safety and you're good.

Mike
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Old 12-12-2018, 23:54   #102
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

My TDI rebreather cert is dated 1999, back when EANx still had a lot of myths to it, and 'DIR' - Doing It Right - was in its infancy. Much changed over the first year of my initiation, some good, some questionable, and a lot of confusion about what were the best and safest dive practices. Someone mentioned diving ⅓'s? We talked a lot about it, and unless we were doing a penetration, I'm willing to bet that no one practiced it, myself included. Others claimed that a successful dive was when you were still alive after an hour back on the boat. We were younger and bulletproof.

This is also when Bernie Chowdhury's 'The Last Dive' came out, and there was a ton of controversy about the ethical and moral practices of what Sheck Exley, the Rouses, and others of the time were unscientifically doing. Things like diving the Andrea Doria on air was one I thought was simply ....beyond real.

Back then, there was much discussion between what was genius and what was reckless, and many of the people I dived with were on both sides of the varying philosophies.

Like when Chris Murley died diving the Doria. He was 6'6", 350lbs and had serious health issues. He was granted his Tri-Mix cert by the same company as I had, and he too had less than 100 dives to his credit. Some thought his obesity should have prevented him from being certified. Some thought it was his right to get certification. Some thought the dive boat should never have allowed him to dive the most extreme dive of the time with his limited experience. And yet, when I posed the ultimate question of being his dive buddy, not one of them would agree to it if asked.

I got into rebreathers so I wouldn't scare the fish I was wanting to photograph. But after I had no desire to dive a rebreather again, it was like I drew a line in the sand. People were okay with my decision, but they also treated me differently.

I quickly came to the opinion that there were other divers to go play with, and severed my ties with them. So, while my experience of diving OC among rebreathers is very limited, my information is mostly based on all those theories we discussed but never got to put to the test. That was in 1999-2000, some 19 years ago, and admittedly, some memories are vague. But agreed, from back them to now, much has changed ...thankfully.

Talk about change? Wifey received EANx certification during her NAUI Open Water course in 2007. Moreover, she understands it! Amazing!
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Old 13-12-2018, 17:06   #103
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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My TDI rebreather cert is dated 1999,

Things like diving the Andrea Doria on air was one I thought was simply ....beyond real.

I got into rebreathers so I wouldn't scare the fish I was wanting to photograph.

Talk about change? Wifey received EANx certification during her NAUI Open Water course in 2007. Moreover, she understands it! Amazing!
Inspo course 2003 for me, diving to 50m on air dil (which I would never do today) and a single ali 40 for bailout. (Most folk carried air, I carried a rather rich 30 ish nitrox mix). I was lucky to be part of a group of smart folks with some serious cave experience - it took a few years of experimenting, but by the late 2000s dives like the Doria were pretty routine. (Although Doria's remoteness and the weather make it a challenge) One of my mates has published a few medical papers on our diving, particularly around O2 exposure duration. On some of our trips doing two dives a day to 70 or 80m / 150 minutes run time we'd be over the "CNS clock" limits for a week straight. Improved our eyesight for a few days. (80m with two ali 80s of bailout is my limit for 'solo' dives. Deeper or longer than that needs a team approach like 3 divers with enough gas to get 2 divers up OC)

Here's one of the earlier trips as we were getting most of it figured out;
The Wreck of the SS William Dawes • ADVANCED DIVER MAGAZINE • by Richard Harris

As someone who's done a little spearfishing on a rebreather, I think the 'don;t scare the fish' line is a bit of a furphy. Unless the fish are also blind, they tend to notice a big lumbering diver with a bright yellow shell on it's back... (yes, it's quieter than OC)

I blend gas at home, so my family dive some weird mixes at times. My son's first dive was on 30/30, as that's what was in the tank. Given his age I like having him on rich mixes and shallow - end bone necrosis from high PPN2 is an issue.

Back on topic for a second - I actually made the decision to stop tech diving in 2015 as we prepared to go cruising as a family. I just couldn't see how to make carrying more than 2 sets of OC gear on a 37' yacht with 4 of us aboard work. And cruising the GBR, we did 50 times as much freediving as scuba. I'd love to have a big cat with space for the gear and go explore some of the deep walls / holes on the GBR though. One day...

Mike
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Old 13-12-2018, 17:35   #104
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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Back on topic for a second - I actually made the decision to stop tech diving in 2015 as we prepared to go cruising as a family. I just couldn't see how to make carrying more than 2 sets of OC gear on a 37' yacht with 4 of us aboard work. And cruising the GBR, we did 50 times as much freediving as scuba. I'd love to have a big cat with space for the gear and go explore some of the deep walls / holes on the GBR though. One day...

Mike
Interesting you are doing that. I just joined this forum because Wifey and I are currently looking for a boat to live on in the South Pacific. I'd like to have a compressor and a hookah, but as you said, space is always a premium.

I've been exchanging email with HookahMax about their products, but they keep referring me to systems I'm not interested in - as in gas powered. I have no desire to carry any more gasoline than the tender will use, especially when we will have a generator.

Granted, gas powered increases the depth, but I really only want to use it for cleaning the hull, changing zincs, freeing a fouled anchor, or harvesting seafood in the shallows. While I would like to fill tanks, the jury is still out whether that will be possible. As you said, hauling around a ton dive gear on a sailboat it rather unrealistic for the amount it will be used. But if there is a way.......
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Old 13-12-2018, 21:21   #105
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Re: SCUBA diving success stories?

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Interesting you are doing that. I just joined this forum because Wifey and I are currently looking for a boat to live on in the South Pacific. I'd like to have a compressor and a hookah, but as you said, space is always a premium.
I can only talk to Aus water - mainly on the GBR.
Spearing on scuba isn't legal, so you are freediving for that anyway.
Cleaning the hull was mostly done freediving.
I carried 2 sets of backplate, wings etc, and only used them off our boat once. I used a 40 cuft stage with a reg (clipped off sidemount to my weightbelt) probably 1/2 dozen times. Freeing a couple of anchors in murky water for other people, changing a zinc, finding stuff in silty bottom / poor vis. (Murky water in bull shark lattitudes gives me the grumps, so I like diving with a tank and hugging the bottom in those conditions)

EITHER, you are going on a diving trip in a yacht, in which case take the petrol driven compressor and fill tanks. Plan on anchoring up for a few days anywhere you want to dive and have a good look around. Probably do all the diving from the dinghy;
OR, you are going on a sailing trip, in which case I'd take the ali 40 with a simple reg only.

We tried to be a little half pregnant with tanks and gear, but no compressor, and it wasn't worth the effort. I did have two kids, 10 and 7 to look after though, probably easier with just a couple of a 40 ft yacht.
(I also have a housed canon 7d, and by the time you set up camera with strobes, plus dive gear on a small yacht, it is a bid crowded. In the end I shot photos in mostly natural light only, as mostly we were shallow and in good vis)

There are lots and lots of cool places out there to explore.

Mike
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