Cruising West Coast Do I need a fishing license?

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Inside the 12 mile limit is called the Territorial Sea. If you are cruising outside of that limit you are not in territorial waters and may fish (recreational/sustenance) without a license. If you are in Mexican waters and you have fishing gear then you better have a license.

This is not correct for the West Coast of the US. The US has extended its Territorial Sea out to the 200-mile Exclusive Economic Zone, primarily due to fishing conflicts. If you hear the term "federal waters" it generally means from 3 to 200 miles. If you hear "state waters" it generally means 0 to 3 miles (0 mile is also called the baseline), but neither of these terms has any legal basis. Over the past 20 years, I have often had to deal with policy issues that involved the various maritime definitions, which are confusing. A few years ago, I noticed that NOAA put this extremely useful tutorial on their website: NOAA Office of General Counsel International Section - Ballast Water - Maritime Zones and Boundaries. Just don't confuse "coastal state" with one of the states in the US. A coastal state in this context means a country that borders along an ocean. However, in the note that's about halfway down, it refers to the US coastal states and their "seaward boundaries" in relation to the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act. This is the fishing law of the US. The Submerged Lands Act relates to oil and gas.

[DeepFrz]

Well, then the NOAA charts are wrong. Territorial Sea is set at the 12 mile limit, by Presidential decree. The 200 nm Economic Exclusion Zone is for commercial activities, also set by Presidential decree although most other (all?) maritime countries have followed suit.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Well, then the NOAA charts are wrong. Territorial Sea is set at the 12 mile limit, by Presidential decree. The 200 nm Economic Exclusion Zone is for commercial activities, also set by Presidential decree although most other (all?) maritime countries have followed suit.

I'm sure the charts are correct. What exactly does it say about the territorial sea that says anyone can do anything beyond 12 NM? Coast Guard has its legal requirements set on the territorial sea, but their boats will certainly go farther out, if needed, to enforce US laws such as for national security purposes or protect fishery resources. The Magnuson Act applies to fishing and is applicable over the whole EEZ, which includes the Territorial Sea. So it doesn't matter if you're fishing at 13 miles offshore. You're still in federal waters and US states just assume you have to cross into their state waters when you are done fishing. This is where I think the OP should contact NOAA OLE because it seems like a grey area to me. If you stay beyond 12 NM and never come to shore (including near offshore islands), perhaps the OP would not need a fishing license, as long as he doesn't violate bag limits. The way I read the fishing laws, everyone needs to register with NMFS to account for their recreational catches and most do this automatically with the state licenses. But really it's kinda irrelevant. If someone is passing through and stays more than 12 NM offshore, which might take a week or so through any given state, it's not likely their catch is going to be that significant so hardly anyone is likely to blink about this, but federal fishery laws still apply such as catch limits.

One more thought. This issue is exactly why the Magnuson Act applies to the EEZ. Foreign vessels would be fishing just outside our territorial sea and the US felt it was detrimental to the management of their resources. This mainly applies to permits for commercial fishing, but in 2009, NOAA created a registry to better account for recreational catches in federal waters. This is not a permit that is issued, but those who don't receive a permit from their state and they fish in federal waters, have to register. So it might be the OP just pays his $15 to register and is good to go. Here is the site for more info: https://www.countmyfish.noaa.gov/register/

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Just call NOAA's Office of Law Enforcement for an official answer to your question.

NOAA!?! The National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration!?!

They make the charts that we use, and provide weather forecasts. They absolutely do not administer state fishing laws.

If you want to know the laws concerning fishing off the coast of any particular state in the United States, you have to call the relevant agency for that state. NOAA is not going to be able to help you in any way with that.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

NOAA!?! The National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration!?!

They make the charts that we use, and provide weather forecasts. They absolutely do not administer state fishing laws.

If you want to know the laws concerning fishing off the coast of any particular state in the United States, you have to call the relevant agency for that state. NOAA is not going to be able to help you in any way with that.

Actually Don you are incorrect noaa does do fishing regulations

Atlantic Highly Migratory Species Regulations :: Office of Sustainable Fisheries

[gamayun]

Natonal Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) is officially known (now) as NOAA Fisheries. They don't regulate state fisheries but they work in coordination with the state on fishery concerns. I think the OP was talking about transiting offshore, outside 3 miles, in federal waters only so the question was whether he'd need to get a fishing license. It's an unusual question so that's why I suggested the Office of Law Enforcement because they would be able to find out. The OP could also find out if NOAA has an ombudsman's office. It's their job to find answers to questions like this. The CA Department of Fish and Wildlife also has an office that answers these types of questions and sends them out via a listserve. I get these emails and will post the address later on today.

[Capt Phil]

Very interesting post! After 20 years of delivering vessels from Alaska to Panama, the only country I was concerned about as far as fishing licenses go was Mexico. I know that at the time, you required a fishing license for not only the primary vessel but tenders as well. They were available in San Diego as well as most Mexican ports. I have been boarded by the Mexican Navy and was asked to produce a license several times. As far as the US goes, boarded occasionally by USCG but never by State Fish and Game in any State, including Alaska.
I did, make most of my passages around the 50 nautical mile mark, however.
Things have clearly changed since I retired, and not for the better! Phil

[denverd0n]

Okay. I stand corrected. (At least, partially.)

[Widdershins]

This page has links to the agency in each state that handles recreational saltwater fishing licenses:

https://www.countmyfish.noaa.gov/register/

The same page has info on getting a federal saltwater angling registration. That federal registration comes with your state-issued saltwater recreational license, so the federal registration seems to be needed needed ONLY if you don't already have a state-issued license AND you're going to be fishing from a private vessel in HI, PR, or USVI.

[gamayun]

For fish and game questions in California, you can send an email to: CalOutdoors@wildlife.ca.gov. There's no guarantee that it'll get answered, but it's an interesting question so they certainly might.

Go to their website at CalOutdoors@wildlife.ca.gov to see some of the questions and answers recently posted.

For example:

Question: I would love to introduce moon jellies into my home saltwater aquarium. Can I collect them myself or do I need to try to buy them? I would not sell or trade them afterwards for something else. If this would be legal, can I collect them under a basic fishing license or would I be required to have a marine collector’s permit? (Tucker M.)

Answer: Moon jellyfish occurring outside the tide pool zone (1,000 ft. seaward from mean high tide) may be legally taken with a fishing license, and the bag limit is 35 (California Code of Regulations Title 14, section 29.05(a)). Anything taken under a sport fishing license in California may never be offered or possessed for sale, barter, exchange or trade.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

As far as the US goes, boarded occasionally by USCG but never by State Fish and Game in any State, including Alaska.
I did, make most of my passages around the 50 nautical mile mark, however.

That's because state jurisdictions (except for TX and FL) don't go beyond 3 NM. You just won't find them out there unless they're patrolling around an island that's a ways offshore, but still considered part of the state. The biggest bang for their buck is to check your catch when you're nearing a harbor area. Otherwise, there are too many miles of shoreline and offshore waters, and not enough fish and game officers.

[Santana2]

Thanks for all the controversial feedback's I guess? Kind of an interesting subject I say. It certainly did get a lot of attention. Leaving soon, I may have a couple friends go with me man&wife. I will buy a fishing license for all the states. Seems like at 77 they might give us a break, not no, but hell no. Happy cruising I say to all and thanks. I hope this ends it. Maybe only the beginning.

Captain Chuck

[Rugger]

A break??? In CA?? There is a 13% tax on the weather in CA. You better not pee off the boat. You need a permit for that too!

-rugger

[Shark_Bait]

New here, late to the thread. This was something that I had honestly not considered. The way I see things, game wardens probably aren't going to care too much about a lone sailboat with one or two lines in the water. Afaik they mostly care about poachers scooping up schools. When I finally get out there I'm probably not going to concern myself with trying to get a license if I'm just passing through. I'm not aiming to make money on the fish, it's dinner for a few days.

[buzzstar]

Probably incorrect. At least in California. Freshwater lakes, streams, ponds, are subject the California law, as is the Pacific ocean, including bays and inlets up to the three mile limit (don't forget our offshore islands) are within the jurisdiction of the California Fish and Wildlife Service. In general, they take their enforcement tasks very seriously. The risk is yours.