We Are Being Terrorized

[susanna reiter]

Interestingly enough...it appears...based upon a recent article provided on the "Pitch In and Help" thread about "Captn Jay's" S/V and the re-floating of it...indicates that "Captn Jay" was accosted in the parking lot by beach where his boat was by a drunken 32 year-old who claimed he was a "boxer" and hit the 66 y.o Jay in the mouth severely injuring him sufficiently to require surgery....the "boxer" sped off in a SUV with several of his friends all of whom are alleged to have been drinking and behaving in a loud and raucous manner at the beach near "Captn Jay's" boat...more of the same it would appear (fortunately the "boxer" was apprehended)...NWS Gulfport appears to be a rough place to be...

[forsailbyowner]

Wakes are part of living aboard. Store your stuff properly, cook like your offshore and warn family and crew to stay on alert its their own fault i they fall down. Every time I anchor near key west the parasailers wake me 50 times a day. i just smile and am glad i live on a boat. My answer to guy running over rodes was to go all chain.

[bobconnie]

+1 on the chain !!

[Tom Stormcrowe]

From what I've read here, there are a couple insoluble issues without intervention by the police or other authorities.

1) The situation escalated with the spotlighting. That was the trigger event. It should have been a nonviolent response and warning, in effect, but it didn't work. OK, this happens......you embarrassed the boater in front of his friends, and he has to save face.
2) You aren't getting the cooperation from the authorities. You seem to be specifically targeted.

My advice would be to pull your hook and moor elsewhere as well. Right now, you're in a no win situation. Change the variables, and don't put up with the BS.

[The Blue Heron]

I would recommend that you seek legal counsel. Retain a lawyer to discuss your options for SELF DEFENSE and what you can and cannot do under florida law, and then also seek his solicitation on how to force the City of Gulfport to respond to issue of policing the anchorage. Retainment is wise, because IF this escalates, you will already know your options and have a phone number to call.
good luck.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by cat man do

So have you pulled up the pick, got on with your life and moved somewhere less stressful yet or are you still letting your ever increasing anger fester into a bile filled ulcer pushing you ever closer to making a foolish retaliatory decision?

Excuse me? He has "ever increasing anger?" The person this has happened to isn't the one who escalated the talk into "shooting anyone who boards his boat."

THAT is one scary attitude, to me. You leave your boat in a crowd of other boats and come back to it later and from a dinghy they can all look alike. Someone shouldn't be shot for making a mistake.

I don't think Hatch should have to pull up and move. He may well have close ties to the community. He might be off Gulfport because that's where he wants to live. I don't blame him a bit for being scared -- nor for wanting to turn tail and run.

Boating has just gathered a lot of media attention. Maybe another call is in order -- IF the incidents are still happening.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by The Blue Heron

Huh ? How would it be 2 or 3 rd degree murder charge for self defense? No one is saying shoot the drunk ass hole, but he should be prepared to defend himself and his family if it continues to escalate. Not cower and wait for the police who won't come.

Here's the Florida law on the use of force in self-defense:

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes :->2011->Chapter 776 : Online Sunshine

It's pretty straightforward and you don't need to be a lawyer to understand reasonably well what it means.

In Florida, certainly, you have the right to use deadly force to defend your home (including your boat) and family against an intruder IF you reasonably believe that you must do so in order to prevent imminent death, grevious bodily harm, or the commission of a "forcible felony". In such case, you don't have any duty to retreat.

I studied this stuff in law school, and this law is pretty liberal -- gives the homeowner quite a lot of leeway.

But you will still have to prove -- prove legally, in the dock of a court -- that your fear was legally reasonable. That may not be much fun and will cost you a heap of money, and if the jackass was unarmed or the situation was in anyway ambiguous, you may find it impossible to prove, and you might find yourself facing prison time for murder. Even if you are legally right, you might lose your boat and everything you own defending yourself against the charges. Good lawyers tend to be fairly expensive.

As someone said earlier, if you get into a situation (or allow yourself to stay in a situation) which eventually results in your shooting someone, your life will sure enough change. It will change dramatically. And I assure you, not for the better. And if the jackass you shot happens to be the spoiled son of a local city councilman whose cousin is a local judge or sheriff -- as is so often the case in these backwater s***hole places -- you will not be able to be sure that justice will prevail at all. Do you really need to risk getting into such a situation?

I would certainly shoot an intruder if I had a gun handy and if it were the absolutely only way to avoid being shot, knifed, or whatever myself, or to prevent that happening to some other person. But if I saw a situation developing which might even remotely lead to that, I would take decisive measures to prevent it from ever coming to that, long before it ever did. The most decisive and guaranteed effective method of doing that is simply pulling that anchor up. If you are seriously thinking about what the legal consequences might be if you shot someone, I'd say that's an awfully good sign that you are not in a place where you need to be at this moment in time. But that advice has already been given a few times in this thread.

[anjou]

This might be off topic but maybe boaters, rightly, live in a backwater (no pun) - a low stress lifestyle, away from media and events in the wider world.

The whole world is currently seeing a bloom of violence and civil unrest and agression. Many reasons, including financial, political and religious.
Everyone has rights these days, and their rights wont always match yours.

Unfortunatly, you cant always rely on police or courts to uphold the laws we have, in fact they often cannot agree how to interpret and enforce said laws.

Ive seen this thread evolve from a cry of frustration and need for advice to local warfare.
I wish I had answers and i empathise with the OPs situation. Please follow all legal avenues before you feel you have to move on.

[capngeo]

Originally Posted by The Blue Heron

I would recommend that you seek legal counsel. Retain a lawyer to discuss your options for SELF DEFENSE and what you can and cannot do under florida law, and then also seek his solicitation on how to force the City of Gulfport to respond to issue of policing the anchorage. Retainment is wise, because IF this escalates, you will already know your options and have a phone number to call.
good luck.

^^^^ THAT is good advice^^^^^

Jon Gutmacher and J. Patrick Buckley are both excellent attorneys, well versed in Florida Firearms Law.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Excuse me? He has "ever increasing anger?" The person this has happened to isn't the one who escalated the talk into "shooting anyone who boards his boat."

THAT is one scary attitude, to me. You leave your boat in a crowd of other boats and come back to it later and from a dinghy they can all look alike. Someone shouldn't be shot for making a mistake.

I don't think Hatch should have to pull up and move. He may well have close ties to the community. He might be off Gulfport because that's where he wants to live. I don't blame him a bit for being scared -- nor for wanting to turn tail and run.

Boating has just gathered a lot of media attention. Maybe another call is in order -- IF the incidents are still happening.

I think you misunderstood Cat Man Do. He never said that it was Hatch's fault. I don't think any of us would (based on the facts we know). Cat Man Do is simply pointing out to Hatch that he is already losing the battle, because it is spoiling his mood. He is angry and frustrated, and afraid (which we all understand very well). To allow the jackass to spoil his mood like that is already handing the jackass a victory. If Hatch stays and fights, he loses even if he wins -- because it will cost an enormous price of Hatch's nerves, at the very least, and is already costing that.

It's unjust, but to fix the injustice will cost far more, in my opinion, than it is worth. It's a no-win situation, I fear, for poor Hatch.

But of course if Hatch is willing to stay and fight and battle it out with the local council, complain against the Coast Guard, and spend his life for the next weeks or month writing letters, filing complaints, trying to get the local media involved, filing lawsuits, spending money consulting with lawyers about what happens if he shoots someone, lying awake at night wondering whether the scrotes are diving under his boat to drill a hole in the bottom -- of course we should all be grateful to him for standing up for what's right. Maybe he will clean up that town at last and set a good precedent for all liveaboards. But unless Hatch has nothing better to do with his time, nerves, and, inevitably money, I can't imagine how that could possibly be the worthwhile choice from his personal point of view. But of course that is entirely for him to decide. Would be entirely none of my business except that he did specifically ask for advice.

[bruce smith]

this silly floating poly business is another good way to piss a chap off even worse, not to mention it would have no effect on a 20' jetski boat.

[Hatch]

Thanks again for all that are replying with good advice.

For the record, I'm not sure how the "gun shooting" part came into play throughout some of the thread.

But, even though I am licensed to carry a weapon, the thought of using it is far from my mind.

I understand the law and my rights, and I understand the 2005 law of "Standing your ground'.

The ONLY time that I can picture using that law, is if my wife and or both of us, are confronted by visitors, uninivited on our boat with hostile intent.

Over the past year here at Gulfport, I have learned to overlook bad and rude boaters.
Many times, they are long gone before I can even look, but their wake remains for us to deal with - I understand that this is part of the "Boating Live a-board life" that we have chosen.

But I don't feel that we should be bullied by repeat offenders on a regular bases.

I have requested a documented copy of my calls to the FWC - we shall see if they comply.

This in turn with provide evidence that the FWC called the Gulfport police, who never showed that night (over a period of 90 min from the first call till I retired for the night). and to this dated have never called, even just to follow up.

I'm not looking to start additional problem out here, I'm just trying to understand why boaters are considered third class citizens in this area.

If I can understand the authorities side of things than hopefully I'll have a better understanding of how we can work together.
But for all three agencies to turn their back, is difficult to comprehend.

Thanks,
Hatch

[bstreep]

I honestly think a six pack of beer and a conversation are probably the best way to handle this.

Didn't we just have a thread somewhere where there was an anchoring issue, and it was well settled with an invite for cocktails?

Now, if in this life I could get myself to take my own advice...

[DeniseO30]

Still..Hatch, no matter how hard it was to restrain yourself from shining lights, confronting them onshore. it only added fuel to the fire. Engaging a harasser never comes out with less harassment.(I should practice what I preach lol) Most kids (and some adults) will just continue. Geeze, even "Moby Dick" was based on a Captain's need to "get" the great white whale

[zeehag]

reckless boating and reckless endangerment are two violations of the law anywhe3e you go. the proper way to fix the problem i have already discussed--doesnt take much and is good for the anchorage and for the kids violating laws. you ARE responsible for your wake and there are guidelines to boat management. thereis also a proper way in which to report these violatons.
we took care of business in sd moorings when richy rich continued to cause wake damages without resorting to violence or escalation.